JoeyBs contract comes first

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-24-2023, 08:56 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Do fans realize Boyd makes over 10 million per year? Boyd's replacement was drafted in 2023. We will save 9 million in future years or likely 50% of the new Higgins contract.

Bengals FO has a plan nd includes the trio of Burrow, Higgins and Chase.

Not exactly how that works.... As Burrow is currently slated for a $18m higher cap hit in 2024 than in 2023, Orlando will have a $6m higher cap hit, BJ Hill will have a $2.5m higher cap hit, Hendrickson has a $2m higher cap hit, Karras will be up almost $2m, Pratt and Chase (not counting a probably Chase extension) will both have roughly a $1.5m higher cap hit, etc, etc.... Just because a guy comes off the books doesn't automatically mean that amount of cap space is suddenly free.

Also $9m is almost certainly going to be well under 50% of the Higgins contract. $18m/yr would tie him for 17th highest paid WR and would mean he would be out of the top-20 before the 2024 season even starts and probably even out of the top-25. Think more $24-25m/yr. By the start of 2024, $24m/yr won't even be a top-10 paid WR. It'd currently be a 3-way tie for 6th, and Justin Jefferson and CeeDee Lamb will both surpass that this offseason and Chase, Waddle, Devonta, and St Brown will surpass it before 2024 and there may be other vets who get extension by then too.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

lol shut up.

[Ell Prez]

(05-23-2023, 11:24 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It'd be a mistake to value Higgins over Chase.

If they sign Higgins, then they absolutely need to sign Chase as well. If you are picking one, it should be Chase. Really hope they don't dig themselves into a hole by signing Higgins while letting Chase get away.

I think singing Chase is a giving, but I have a little ptsd from the Reds singing Homer Bailey and not Cueto because Bailey got the money first. I really don’t think the bengals will do that here, they know Chase is a generational talent.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-23-2023, 11:08 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The Bengals are one of the few and rare NFL teams to
Have hit HRs on DRAFTING WRs in back to back years. Alot of Teams Have enough trouble trying to finding 1 franchise WR much less 2. I give you the Browns Ravens
GIants Bears Texans Panthers as recent examples
I repeat again this is a passing league. Not extending Tee
Higgins weakens this offense. I love the narrative
" Tee Higgins is replaceable he can be replaced by cheaper options. " Tee Higgins is sure thing a 100% slam
Dunk. The identity of this team is the QB and his WRs.
Why gamble and sign some journeyman WRs or hope
Your mid RD WRs make a huge jump as playmakers.
How did that pan out for the Packers after they passed
On Tee Higgins ?

The game is evolving to be offensive dominated much like
The NBA. The days of asking your defense to be stout
And having  2 RBs  carry your offense is long gone.
Now you just your defense to make a couple crucial
Stops in the game and bring heat to the QB on 3rd down.

Yeah, Tee will be here anyways, Burrow wants him so he will have him and like most know the Tee and Ja'Marr extensions will offset.

Plus Boyd's money will come off the books when he leaves. I just hope we can afford Burrow, Tee, Wilson and Reader...

(05-24-2023, 12:47 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’ll take the bait..

In what world is Chase “injury liability” compared to Tee? Tee seems to get banged up and have to come out of games far more often. It’s really one of the only knocks on him.

Also, people severely overuse terms like LMFAO on the internet, but it really does apply to calling Ja’Marr friggin Chase “tiny.”



Kid is literally built like a RB.

Yep. 

(05-24-2023, 04:46 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What? Lol. Chase had just the 1 injury in 2 years.

Higgins injury history 3 years in the NFL...
2020 Hamstring 
2021 Hamstring 
2021 Shoulder 
2021 Ankle
2022 Concussion
2022 Ankle
2022 Hamstring

He played less than 30% of the snaps in 3 games in 2022 because of getting hurt in games. If you go back to college, in 2019 he had a Hamstring, and in 2018 he had an Ankle. His ankles and hamstrings are always hurt. That's 3 separate ankle injuries and 4 separate hamstring injuries in the last 5 years.

"Tiny" Chase is only 14 pounds lighter than Higgins. This whole post is weird. Lol

Thought so, thanks TLL. If there is any reason I would be hesitant in extending Tee it is because of his injury history.

We are extending both anyways, but Chase is much more durable. That dude must of been trolling, it was about the most headscratching
post I have seen on here in some time.

[casear2727]

(05-23-2023, 11:08 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Absolutely correct. 2026 would be the first year of Chase's extension/new deal. It helps that they are spaced out some. But Higgins (extension) and Burrow (5th year option + signing bonus) both have big jumps next year. Next year will likely be the biggest leap  

2023: Burrow extension pro-rated signing bonus, Higgins ext. PR SB. 
2024: Burrow 5th yr option + PRSB; Higgins extension + Chase PRSB 
2025: Burrow extension, Higgins extension, Chase 5th year O + PRSB 
2026: All 3 on extensions. 

It is likely that 2027 is a better guess.  The actual salaries start out low the 1st and even 2nd year of the contracts.  Thus Chase might not be at his $30M AAV (for example) until 2028.  Of course Higgins and Burrow could be over their AAV by then.

[casear2727]

(05-24-2023, 10:42 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm not so sure. BOYD can easily be replaced. I disagree on Higgins. The depth Higgins provided when Chase went down last season is why the Bengals made the playoffs.

If Boud & Mixon's contracts go after this season, Higgins is EASILY afforded... and both have 2nd year replacements right there waiting, already on the roster from this year's draft.

I agree on Higgins being the catalyst last season, less bullish on Boyd being irreplaceable. 

[casear2727]

(05-24-2023, 03:48 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: The cap will increase at 8% a year. In 3 years when we have to have Higgins, Wilson, Burrow and Chase signed it will be 282 million. That's a 58 million increase in cap space. Boyd 10 million, Williams 13 million, and Mixon 13 million will free up another 36 million.

That's a total of 94 million freed up by the time we have to have all 4 guys signed in 3 years.  1 year left Higgins and Wilson. 2 years Burrow. 3 years Chase 

Lets say we even roll over some unused cap space of 16 million in 3 years. That could put the cap space at 110 million 

The amount of cap space we would need for each players would be the difference between expected salary - current salary.  Wilson  10 - 3 = 7 million. Higgins 20 - 4 = 16 million.  Burrow 50 - 11 = 39 million Chase 30 - 8 = 22. That's an increase of 84 million we would need in 3 years. 

We will have 110 million and we only need 84 million. 

Your incessant whining and doom and gloom is a joke. You idiots on this bengals boards just whine about nothing. You assume we won't have the cap space when will have the cap space. Just STFU.

Burrows contract will be back loaded to alleviate cap space his first few years. We'll have the cap space from the increase in the cap every year and expensive players unloaded.

If Burrow wants a percentage of the cap I think the right percentage would be 13%.  At an 8% cap increase over 10 years, in two years the cap will be 261 million. He'd make 34 million the first year of the deal.  In 12 years, the 10th year of the deal, it would be be 560 million and his salary would be 72 million. His average salary would be 53 million per year over the course of the 10 year deal, but most importantly it would free up cap space the first few years and allow us to sign other players.

You make a good argument as to the cap rising.  We will see larger jumps due to new TV deals and then even more with the gambling.  8% may be conservative.


Percentage of the cap is a terrible idea by Florio for the team.

[PDub80]

(05-24-2023, 06:35 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I agree on Higgins being the catalyst last season, less bullish on Boyd being irreplaceable. 

I think Charlie Jones will IMPRESS big time.

[casear2727]

(05-24-2023, 07:03 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I think Charlie Jones will IMPRESS big time.

I think Charlie will definitely be better than average.  

I began losing my high confidence on Boyd at the SB.  His drop at a crucial moment was bad.  But his boneheaded play on 3rd down after Awuzie's interception was a factor in losing that game.

He did not step up at all in the very 1st game after we lost Chase.  I think a vet of his stature should have made a statement vs the Browns.

He is still a good, solid player - I dont dislike him.  But he is nowhere near irreplaceable to me. 

[PDub80]

(05-24-2023, 07:16 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think Charlie will definitely be better than average.  

I began losing my high confidence on Boyd at the SB.  His drop at a crucial moment was bad.  But his boneheaded play on 3rd down after Awuzie's interception was a factor in losing that game.

He did not step up at all in the very 1st game after we lost Chase.  I think a vet of his stature should have made a statement vs the Browns.

He is still a good, solid player - I dont dislike him.  But he is nowhere near irreplaceable to me. 

I agree. He kept getting nagging injuries that removed him from the field. The AFCCG basically killed any care I had for him left. He got injured, was walking around right in front of me - I was front row behind the bengals bench - and standing in the space heater like he was going back out. Yet, he didn't. THAT is the game you fight through pain to play in and the dude sat. I'm sure he found a club after to go hang in to nurse his "injury". An injury that nobody reported on after as being significant. "I used to be a Bengal" can't be his pickup line soon enough for me.

[Mgbrown66]

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

Ha.  I almost fell for this.  Good troll!

[Streak 161]

(05-23-2023, 03:48 PM)dxdtdemon Wrote: Why wouldn't you value Higgins over Chase? Chase is an injury liability who some sucker is still going to pay as if he can put up that level of production for a full season. Getting his level of production for 13 games is fine when he's still on his rookie contract, but giving Chase any kind of an extension will pan out as well as the Ken Griffey, Jr. contract did for the Reds. On the other hand, yes, Higgins missed time this past season, too, but at least he has played a full season in the past, and with his height and size, he is less of an injury liability than the tiny Chase. Also, his height and size is the only reason this offense can work despite not having a good TE, because Higgins can run down the middle of the field and get hit and not get seriously hurt like Chase would.

[Graphicguy]

(05-23-2023, 12:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This board over values the impact Higgins has on this team. If Higgins goes, his production can be replaced. 

Having an elite QB makes Higgins expendable. Having a good DL and OL is more important than having an "elite" WR2. 

Who will replace that production? You need a tall, fast, feisty, strong, great route runner, will fight for the ball…type of WR. Who is that? Who can take the double and triple teams of Chase?

Why are a few of you so keen on trading Higgins? He’s one of the top WRs in the league. His presence in the offense elevates it.

So, you want to let go of a sure thing (Higgins) for a crap shoot (anyone you draft who you hope can replace him).

As Duke says, go get your own Tee Higgins. We will keep ours.

I personally think it’s some other teams who want us to trade him so they can have him, and make us weaker in the process.

Trading a talent like his is just crazy.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-24-2023, 06:32 PM)casear2727 Wrote: It is likely that 2027 is a better guess.  The actual salaries start out low the 1st and even 2nd year of the contracts.  Thus Chase might not be at his $30M AAV (for example) until 2028.  Of course Higgins and Burrow could be over their AAV by then.

Bengals can also tag Chase for a year (or two) while working on a longer deal.
For once, I feel like the hefty one-year price tag would be justified for the quality of player.

[depthchart]

(05-25-2023, 11:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals can also tag Chase for a year (or two) while working on a longer deal.
For once, I feel like the hefty one-year price tag would be justified for the quality of player.

By Google Searching I found 3 instances where players vowed to sit out the season rather than sign a Franchise Tag agreement.


Davante Adams vowed to sit out the season and was traded to the Raiders.

Dez Bryant said that he would sit out the season, however, he was able to reach a long term deal with Dallas before the start of the season.

Le'veon Bell vowed to sit out and the Steelers didn't budge, so Bell sat out the whole season. The Steelers then chose to allow Bell to become

a Free Agent before the next season and he went to the Jets.

_

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-25-2023, 11:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Bengals can also tag Chase for a year (or two) while working on a longer deal.
For once, I feel like the hefty one-year price tag would be justified for the quality of player.

Tagging is a bad idea. 

New contract at the end of next year will give them cap comfort for this year, next year, the following year (5th year option) and at least the first, if not the first 2 years of the new contract. 

We're looking, at least, till '27 before a big number hits for him, if not '28.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-25-2023, 01:16 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Tagging is a bad idea. 

New contract at the end of next year will give them cap comfort for this year, next year, the following year (5th year option) and at least the first, if not the first 2 years of the new contract. 

We're looking, at least, till '27 before a big number hits for him, if not '28.

I get it, but the tag is still a viable option if a deal can't get worked out.

New contract wouldn't have to take into effect until 2026 when his 5th year option is done.
If a deal can't get worked out, tagging still gives fair value through 2026, or even 2027 if tagging twice.
Chase could feasibly be a Bengal for the next 5 years without even needing to do a long-term deal.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-25-2023, 12:28 PM)depthchart Wrote: By Google Searching I found 3 instances where players vowed to sit out the season rather than sign a Franchise Tag agreement.


Davante Adams vowed to sit out the season and was traded to the Raiders.

Dez Bryant said that he would sit out the season, however, he was able to reach a long term deal with Dallas before the start of the season.

Le'veon Bell vowed to sit out and the Steelers didn't budge, so Bell sat out the whole season. The Steelers then chose to allow Bell to become

a Free Agent before the next season and he went to the Jets.

_

Yep, but those are the minority when it comes to people getting the tag.
A vast majority of tagged players just play on the tag and then decide to either sign a long-term deal or move on if able.
We saw that with Bates last year.

[depthchart]

(05-25-2023, 03:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep, but those are the minority when it comes to people getting the tag.
A vast majority of tagged players just play on the tag and then decide to either sign a long-term deal or move on if able.
We saw that with Bates last year.

It may be that the bigger Star players are more likely to actually sit out and Chase may consider himself to be a Superstar.

Once a player threatens to sit out. that player either has to give in and sign the Franchise Tag, get the Team to give him a Long Term Deal 

or actually sit out if the Team plays hardball like the Steelers did with Le'veon Bell. 

Not so sure that Chase will just quietly sign the Franchise Tag.

He may feel disrespected and try the Dez Bryant & Davante Adams approaches. 

Dez got the Long Term Deal and Davante got traded.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-25-2023, 04:04 PM)depthchart Wrote: It may be that the bigger Star players are more likely to actually sit out and Chase may consider himself to be a Superstar.

Once a player threatens to sit out. that player either has to give in and sign the Franchise Tag, get the Team to give him a Long Term Deal 

or actually sit out if the Team plays hardball like the Steelers did with Le'veon Bell. 

Not so sure that Chase will just quietly sign the Franchise Tag.

He may feel disrespected and try the Dez Bryant & Davante Adams approaches. 

Dez got the Long Term Deal and Davante got traded.

Dez Bryant had ego problems.
Le'Veon Bell had ego problems.
Davante Adams was the only one that struck me as surprising, I think.
I don't think Chase would threaten to sit out if tagged, but we won't know unless/until he actually gets tagged, I guess.