Why didn't the Bengals add a proven RB in the offseason

[Soonerpeace]

(08-26-2023, 11:07 AM)TheFan Wrote: The Bengals could have easily cut him with his salary being what it was plus the off field things. They chose to work with him to lower his salary so he could stay in a way that was fair for him and them. I think it's much more of an indicator how much they like him compared to them wanting him gone. 

They never came close to cutting him. Breech out of focus. They didn’t even sniff at anybody in FA at any point. Not even remotely after Perine shocked them. Nor were they aggressive in attending pro days for running backs.

[*Synric*]

I remember arguing how BenJarvus Green-Ellis only got yards that were blocked up and couldn't create by himself. Joe Mixon has had a similar career he isn't a guy that is going to create yards himself.

[masonbengals fan]

(08-25-2023, 01:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I give up on all of this.
Even if Mixon has a good/great year, people will still complain and want him gone/replaced etc, he's only one year removed from the Pro-Bowl and one of the best Pass Catching RB's out there.

In 2022, Mixon was top 25 (24th) in yards from scrimmage (which includes WR/RB/QB/TEs), Chase was 41st and Tee was 47th.
In 2021, Mixon was 8th, Chase 9th and Tee 39th.

Even though 2022 was a down year for everyone on that list, the TEAM still found a way to win and come with in a minute of going to a 2nd in a row SB.

I'm excited to see what both Joe's can do behind a better OL. 

This x 1000

[Whatever]

(08-25-2023, 12:53 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac disagrees. If you listen to this podcast and his pressers he’s been 100% behind Joe.

Solomon Wilcots “ I’m sitting in pubs and coffee houses and get questions all the time about Joe Mixon and I keep telling them he’s a rare find and opposing coaches tell me we wish we had him” Zac Taylor “ Joe’s so physical especially when he’s out in space. Even if these guys take him down they pay the price for it and eventually you see on film they don’t want to do it anymore. It’s kinda Like when he makes them miss or runs them over. When he gets on the perimeter he helps he helps Tee and Ja Mar by wearing down those guys guarding them by wearing them down. He’s a great leader and before the game the opposing coaches are moaning about going up against him. We like his efficiency and in the passing game we love his effectiveness.

Zac is 100% behind everyone in public.  What he says about a guy in a presser is not necessarily what he's really thinking.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-25-2023, 12:53 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac disagrees. If you listen to this podcast and his pressers he’s been 100% behind Joe.

You never fail to crack me up.

Production on the field. Do you know what production is and what it means?

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-25-2023, 01:21 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: That's certainly not the case, and this mindset is part of the frustration of the whole topic. There is a blatant disconnect on what each fan or pundit considers "good". However, that doesn't mean that everyone is unreasonable and will still vilify Mixon if he has a great year. If Mixon has a good year, then I will happily say he has turned it around and he proved my doubts wrong. However, my idea of a good year is probably very different than yours.

Running backs are largely a product of their offensive line. One way of assessing how good a back is is to ask "what does he do for himself"? Is he a good pass blocker? Is a good receiver? Does he break tackles often and gets a ton of yards after contact? For Mixon, those three questions are two nos, and one yes. He does not, and has never, been very good at breaking tackles or generating yardage after contact. He is not, and never has been a remarkable pass blocker. He is a very talented receiver. 

Even his 2021 season is unremarkable. He had poor efficiency and very high volume - of course his yardage and TDs look good, he ran the ball a lot. He'd better have high numbers or there is a big issue. He had the second most carries within the five yard line in the league, reminiscent of Jamaal Williams of Detroit last year. He benefitted from a high octane passing offense that got down to the goalline where he punched it in. That isn't particularly impressive, in my eyes. 

If Mixon goes out there and starts breaking tackles and generating more production on his own, then I will be happy, even if his efficiency per touch is largely the same. That would be concerning to me, because that would mean the offensive line is probably not doing much, but it would show me that Mixon has some juice left. The issue is just that he has never done that. He has been one of the least elusive backs in the league over the last four years. Maybe he turns it around, I don't know. I would be happy if he did.

My stance isn't that I hate Mixon, though I have been an outspoken critic of his. He is simply replaceable and nothing special. I understand that the coaching staff wanted to keep him, but that doesn't really change my opinion in the least. 

Yup.

I will state, unequivocally for the record, i hope Mixon has an AllPro type season. Not pro bowl, AllPro. I hope Volson becomes a top 10 G and leads the way for a top 5 NFL rushing attack. 

I'm rooting for that when the games start. That doesn't mean i can't speak the truth about how ineffective both of them have been. 

[Soonerpeace]

(08-26-2023, 12:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: Zac is 100% behind everyone in public.  What he says about a guy in a presser is not necessarily what he's really thinking.

I know that if Joe Burrow gets pressure and sacked everyone gives him a pass and rightfully so. If Mixon has an offensive line ranked 27th by PFF and his production sucks it’s his fault by many. If you listened to Zac and watched his expressions in Solomon Wilcots podcast and came away that he wasn’t genuine in his comments on Mixon then I can’t help you. If you come away with watching the organizations direction on Mixon and their path all year and conclude they’ve not been squarely behind him I can’t help you either. They hardly pursued anybody in FA after Perine left. Instead right after Perine informed them they contacted Trayveon Williams agent and signed him. They hardly went to any running backs available in the draft pro days. It’s crystal clear they were keeping Joe.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-26-2023, 02:30 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You never fail to crack me up.

Production on the field. Do you know what production is and what it means?

Better ask that of Duke and Zac. They are the one’s who decided to keep Mixon. The coaches see the production and performance. They see the blocking and efficiency and grade the players. And their goal obviously was to keep Joe but at a reduced rate and that’s what happened. Take it up with them not me.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-26-2023, 03:27 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Better ask that of Duke and Zac. They are the one’s who decided to keep Mixon. The coaches see the production and performance. They see the blocking and efficiency and grade the players. And  their goal obviously was to keep Joe but at a reduced rate and that’s what happened. Take it up with them not me.

You really just don't get it. At all. You keep talking about what people talk about--coaches, former players, etc--and then pawning it off on the coaches for saying it. 

I don't know that i can be any more clear. I don't give 2 flying shits about what anyone says about anyone. It's super easy to look up a statistical analysis of a player compared to his peers, and see that Mixon has been down the list consistently. He's a good volume back but not much more than that to this point. 

Seriously, don't even bother chiming in, to me specifically, about what someone says about someone. I really don't even give a single shit. I'm more interested in how Bengal A compares to NFL play B-Z, and what the Bengals can do to improve that situation if it's warranted. 

I.don't.care.about.what.anyone.says.about.anyone so please stop citing that when replying to one of my posts. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(08-26-2023, 03:24 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I know that if Joe Burrow gets pressure and sacked everyone gives him a pass and rightfully so. If Mixon has an offensive line ranked 27th by PFF and his production sucks it’s his fault by many. If you listened to Zac and watched his expressions in Solomon Wilcots podcast and came away that he wasn’t genuine in his comments on Mixon then I can’t help you. If you come away with watching the organizations direction on Mixon and their path all year and conclude they’ve not been squarely behind him I can’t help you either. They hardly pursued anybody in FA after Perine left. Instead right after Perine informed them they contacted Trayveon Williams agent and signed him. They hardly went to any running backs available in the draft pro days. It’s crystal clear they were keeping Joe.

I definitely agree on Mixon I think he is a good running back and takes a little too much of the blame when in reality it's more on the blocking. Trayveon worries me. He really struggled with injuries for two or three years and while he showed some flashes last year that's a lot of hope counting on him to be #2. Now I like Evans more than a lot of people seem to and Chase Brown has some promise. I just hope we get the last two involved more in the passing game as they both are good pass catchers.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-26-2023, 08:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You really just don't get it. At all. You keep talking about what people talk about--coaches, former players, etc--and then pawning it off on the coaches for saying it. 

I don't know that i can be any more clear. I don't give 2 flying shits about what anyone says about anyone. It's super easy to look up a statistical analysis of a player compared to his peers, and see that Mixon has been down the list consistently. He's a good volume back but not much more than that to this point. 

Seriously, don't even bother chiming in, to me specifically, about what someone says about someone. I really don't even give a single shit. I'm more interested in how Bengal A compares to NFL play B-Z, and what the Bengals can do to improve that situation if it's warranted. 

I.don't.care.about.what.anyone.says.about.anyone so please stop citing that when replying to one of my posts. 

Got it. You know more than Zac or Duke. If I disagree with one of your comments I’ll counter.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-26-2023, 10:23 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Got it. You know more than Zac or Duke. If I disagree with one of your comments I’ll counter.

I don't know more than them. What i do know is that what they say doesn't always reflect the "truth" because they're not going to say anything negative about a player on their roster. 

It should be common knowledge; in a battle of words vs results, words lose every time.

I'm a big fan of debates but i prefer that they be based in facts and objective results, not subjective opinions. And to wrap it up, i like Mixon for a lot of reasons but i'm not a fan of his efficiency numbers. He's not hard to replace like Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Hendrickson and Awuzie.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-26-2023, 10:56 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I don't know more than them. What i do know is that what they say doesn't always reflect the "truth" because they're not going to say anything negative about a player on their roster. 

It should be common knowledge; in a battle of words vs results, words lose every time.

I'm a big fan of debates but i prefer that they be based in facts and objective results, not subjective opinions. And to wrap it up, i like Mixon for a lot of reasons but i'm not a fan of his efficiency numbers. He's not hard to replace like Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Hendrickson and Awuzie.

Okay I get that but Zac is happy with Joe.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-26-2023, 11:29 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Okay I get that but Zac is happy with Joe.

I've never disagreed with that. That means nothing to me though.

[Essex Johnson]

(08-26-2023, 12:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: Zac is 100% behind everyone in public.  What he says about a guy in a presser is not necessarily what he's really thinking.

And you know this how???

[Soonerpeace]

Chase Brown on running the Joe Mixon drill at Illinois because of his lateral movement
https://youtu.be/z2SamWRQSxw?si=WPlJVZSZEREjMg-s

[casear2727]

(08-26-2023, 11:46 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And you know this how???

Because in 4 years of Zac being a head coach he has said these things?  Zac is very predictable, regardless of player when it comes to injury news or how much he/the team loves a player.  It is the same every time.  That said, I dont doubt he likes having Mixon.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-26-2023, 11:39 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They never came close to cutting him. Breech out of focus. They didn’t even sniff at anybody in FA at any point. Not even remotely after Perine shocked them. Nor were they aggressive in attending pro days for running backs.

(04-08-2023, 11:12 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: They didn’t try to keep Perine

Gio says hi. You think Mixon came to them with the idea of voluntarily cutting his pay?

How could Perine shock them by leaving if the Bengals didn’t try to keep an unrestricted free agent who wasn’t under contract and was no longer part of the team?

Whose pro day did the Bengals not attend?

The Bengals had pre-draft visits with Murphy, Iosivas, and Ivey. They also had multiple visits and combine meetings with multiple running backs.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-26-2023, 11:07 AM)TheFan Wrote: The Bengals could have easily cut him with his salary being what it was plus the off field things. They chose to work with him to lower his salary so he could stay in a way that was fair for him and them. I think it's much more of an indicator how much they like him compared to them wanting him gone. 

They gave Hendrickson an extra year and more money. That kinda indicates how much they like him.

They gave Mixon 40% less over the same number of years with only $2.75M in dead cap if they cut him next season. That kinda indicates they like him about 60% of how much they liked him previously.

Hendrickson is like the girlfriend they put a ring on it. Mixon is like the girlfriend who is way too much drama and high maintenance they gave an ultimatum to get their shit together or pack their shit and get out.

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 01:34 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: They gave Hendrickson an extra year and more money. That kinda indicates how much they like him.

They gave Mixon 40% less over the same number of years with only $2.75M in dead cap if they cut him next season. That kinda indicates they like him about 60% of how much they liked him previously.

Hendrickson is like the girlfriend they put a ring on it. Mixon is like the girlfriend who is way too much drama and high maintenance they gave an ultimatum to get their shit together or pack their shit and get out.

Or it indicates the RB market is completely different than when they gave Mixon his original deal. It was beneficial to both parties to keep Mixon with the team on a slightly lower salary. 

Mixon may not be the Belle of the ball but the Bengals obviously don't think he's a cave troll either.