Let's take a minute and acknowledge this

[Shake n Blake]

(12-07-2015, 09:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not sure if that's necessarily true.  I recall on PTI Tony Kornheiser was gushing about Palmer's borderline MVP season and that the Cardinals can be a Super Bowl favorite and Mike Wilbon just said "How many playoff games has he won?" knowing the answer was zero.  The whole playoff wins stat is worth acknowledging, but we also have to realize that Rex Grossman, Mark Sanchez, and Tim Tebow all have playoff wins.  Hell, Sanchez might have more than the Bengals had in 46 years.

Like Fred pointed out, when you get to a certain level and fail then getting to that level each time becomes less of a recognized accomplishment and more of a joke in the eyes of outsiders.  I think of the Bills in the 90s.  Many football fans would be thrilled with their team making the Super Bowl, but when lose 4 in a row even teams that never won the thing start jabbing at you.

Additionally, I have to admit the bias involved.  When the Bengals make the playoffs and lose in the first round we try to cheer the accomplishment, can't win if you aren't in, and so on.  When the Steelers go one-n-done we don't applaud them,  we laugh because they got Tebowed right out of the playoffs.  One 'n' done.  Suck it! NYEAH NYEAH and so on.  Admit it, if the Steelers went one 'n' done 4 times in a row we'd all be in stitches and wonder why they'd be stupid enough to not fire Tomlin and hire anyone else.  Meh, perspective.

I agree with some of what you're saying, but from everything I've seen, more media folks are gushing over Palmer than Dalton. The lack of playoff wins for Dalton (in year 5) are CONSTANTLY brought up as if they're a reason to shrug him off. With Palmer (in year 13), those questions are rarely brought up, your example notwithstanding.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-06-2015, 08:18 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Respect must be given. It's real folks, he's a player.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25403188/more-proof-that-andy-dalton-is-one-of-the-nfls-best-quarterbacks

Dalton has evolved this year. He is just as good as any QB this year, yes, including Brady and Rodgers.

BTW, love the way he checks out of certain plays and runs the ball for TD's like he did once again Sunday.

He is really starting to see Defenses and pick them apart. I have said it many times this year but he has improved in every aspect this year.

It is awesome to watch.

[Okeana]

don't start down this road with the best QB in the first five years stuff. He's playing well, but lets not get it twisted. This roster is completely stacked and has been for awhile. His stats benefit from being on one of the deepest rosters of this generation.

[Baby Hawk]

(12-08-2015, 07:59 PM)Okeana Wrote: don't start down this road with the best QB in the first five years stuff.  He's playing well, but lets not get it twisted.  This roster is completely stacked and has been for awhile.  His stats benefit from being on one of the deepest rosters of this generation.

We were stacked in 2013 and again this year, but I don't think so about 2011, 2012, and 2014. 

I don't think Dalton is the best "first five years" QB ever.  But he is the one with the most road victories.  That is an impressive stat, considering how many top quality QBs have been drafted by teams with losing records, and had immediate success. 

[Essex Johnson]

(12-07-2015, 12:11 AM)Utts Wrote: Andy is having a great season, and playing better than I ever thought he was capable of. However, I'd argue that much of the past criticism was warranted, and if he tanks in the playoffs the spectacular regular season will be largely meaningless.

to just measure a QB by playoff wins is actually largely  meaningless... For example here is a short list  QB's that I believe Dalton is better than but have at least two playoff wins 

Tony Eason
Neil Odonnell
Stan Humphries
Vince Ferragamo
Chris Chandler
Kordell Stewart
Rex Grossman
Jim Everertt

I could name a few more but this small sample i believe proves my point.  Andy Dalton has established himself as a top 10 QB in this league now in his 5th year... 

I heard a great analysis on the radio the other day of what type of QB a team should look for in general.. Don;t measure them on how high their bar could be, measure them on how low their bar could be..   I think Andy fits that very well.. he is probably never going to be at the high bar level of top QBs, but his low bar level is much better than most QBs.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-08-2015, 07:59 PM)Okeana Wrote: don't start down this road with the best QB in the first five years stuff.  He's playing well, but lets not get it twisted.  This roster is completely stacked and has been for awhile.  His stats benefit from being on one of the deepest rosters of this generation.

I don't think Dalton is the best QB ever through 5 years, but it's just as silly to give all the credit to the weapons for the year he's having. No one doubts Pig Ben for having Brown, Bryant, Wheaton and Heath Miller. No one knocked Montana or Young for having Rice, Taylor, Craig, Ricky Waters, etc.

Lets be real, crediting his weapons for his current MVP level play is yet another way to avoid giving Dalton his due. Dalton's poise, accuracy (on all types of throws), and pre-snap awareness have been off the charts this year, and his weapons have nothing to do with that.

[Fresno B]

(12-08-2015, 07:59 PM)Okeana Wrote: don't start down this road with the best QB in the first five years stuff.  He's playing well, but lets not get it twisted.  This roster is completely stacked and has been for awhile.  His stats benefit from being on one of the deepest rosters of this generation.

You know your football.

[3wt]

(12-08-2015, 11:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: to just measure a QB by playoff wins is actually largely  meaningless... For example here is a short list  QB's that I believe Dalton is better than but have at least two playoff wins 

Tony Eason
Neil Odonnell
Stan Humphries
Vince Ferragamo
Chris Chandler
Kordell Stewart
Rex Grossman
Jim Everertt

I could name a few more but this small sample i believe proves my point.  Andy Dalton has established himself as a top 10 QB in this league now in his 5th year... 

I heard a great analysis on the radio the other day of what type of QB a team should look for in general.. Don;t measure them on how high their bar could be, measure them on how low their bar could be..   I think Andy fits that very well.. he is probably never going to be at the high bar level of top QBs, but his low bar level is much better than most QBs.

And considerably higher this year - good enough to get him deep into the playoffs

[XenoMorph]

(12-08-2015, 07:59 PM)Okeana Wrote: don't start down this road with the best QB in the first five years stuff. He's playing well, but lets not get it twisted. This roster is completely stacked and has been for awhile. His stats benefit from being on one of the deepest rosters of this generation.

Who were we stacked with in 2011 2012 and 2014?

Even 2013 had all the pieces but they had no playing time or experience at that point which is important.

so please dont let yourself get twisted.

[Junglejuice]

(12-09-2015, 01:37 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Who were we stacked with in 2011 2012 and 2014?

Even 2013 had all the pieces but they had no playing time or experience at that point which is important.

so please dont let yourself get twisted.

This.

While not posting pretty numbers last year the guy still willed them to 10-5-1 and was driving down the field to grab us a consecutive division title before the fumble.
Ugly numbers aside fans should've been elated with our play and record last year considering our supporting cast.

When you can win 10 games with large amounts of time throwing to SANU and TATE as your top WRs you are kinda good.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-09-2015, 12:47 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't think Dalton is the best QB ever through 5 years, but it's just as silly to give all the credit to the weapons for the year he's having. No one doubts Pig Ben for having Brown, Bryant, Wheaton and Heath Miller. No one knocked Montana or Young for having Rice, Taylor, Craig, Ricky Waters, etc.

Lets be real, crediting his weapons for his current MVP level play is yet another way to avoid giving Dalton his due. Dalton's poise, accuracy (on all types of throws), and pre-snap awareness have been off the charts this year, and his weapons have nothing to do with that.

Exactly right.....some people just don't know football from a dog turd.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-08-2015, 06:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree with some of what you're saying, but from everything I've seen, more media folks are gushing over Palmer than Dalton. The lack of playoff wins for Dalton (in year 5) are CONSTANTLY brought up as if they're a reason to shrug him off. With Palmer (in year 13), those questions are rarely brought up, your example notwithstanding.

In a stupid twist, it's easier to give Palmer a break (not me personally, but nationally) because he's only played on one whole playoff game. Just a numbers thing. It's easier to pan a guy for 4 playoff duds as opposed to 1. 

[Vas Deferens]

(12-10-2015, 03:18 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: In a stupid twist, it's easier to give Palmer a break (not me personally, but nationally) because he's only played on one whole playoff game. Just a numbers thing. It's easier to pan a guy for 4 playoff duds as opposed to 1. 

Keep in mind that I've been a card carrying dalton conspiracy theorist in the past.  But I'm starting to wonder if dalton may just be smart enough to barely, just barely get **** out of the way of the kimo double roll over?  Maybe carson's USC pretty boy past was too laid back.  'No worries bro, I'm OC all the way."  I've beat him up on it a bunch, but maybe that fear of a higher power has instilled dalton with a respect for fat cheating ***** rolling up on his money makers.  

Wow.  Someone slipped me something or I just turned a corner.  Not sure which I hope it is.