Goodberry did analysis of the defense - not pretty

[Nepa]

(11-15-2023, 10:56 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Nick Scott's tackle of Noah Brown, or lack there of, on that last drive was a game decider.

To be honest, it was Scott and Pratt. On reviewing the play, it seemed to me that Pratt was only trying to rip the ball out and not tackle Brown, which failed miserably. Brown was yards short of the line marking the range for the FG kick, and the kicker had never made a 50-yarder in his life, so that was a huge mistake in trying to rip the ball out rather than just tackle the receiver. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-15-2023, 11:51 AM)Housh Wrote: Trey H is playing selfishly(Goodberry didn’t say this, this is my opinion). Trey is purposely not keeping run support so he can rush the QB. The Texans took advantage of this Trey H tendency and killed us. Trey has to know when you pressure QBs like he does, teams will start letting you rush just to run right by you. Some run plays Trey was 8 yards in the backfield and he didn’t realize it was by design. Hubbard on the flip side understands this and takes really good angles while rushing so he can also support the run.

Losing Hubbard may be more important than losing Trey

Trey is an amazing pass rusher.

He's an amazingly poor run defender too.

It's kind of always been how he was. It's why he was available in free agency and he only had 1 good pass rushing year with the Saints.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-15-2023, 11:53 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's kind of the Marvin era Bengals with Dalton that made the playoffs 5 years in a row. Free agency slowly ripped that team apart.

Losing Bates and Bell was big. You just can't replace upper tier starters with mediocre free agents and draft picks.

Dax has been superb all year, there has been little dropoff (if any) from him.

But Scott is, yeah, just putrid,

[Joelist]

Yep! I like CTB but he did make some head scratching plays also. So did Cam Sample. Scott I think got more attention because his brand of head scratching messed up the entire rotating zone (by his being a loose cannon).

[WeezyBengal]

Blame the front office. Wonder if they "value" the position now?

They went bargain shopping with Nick Scott, let a quality player in Bell walk, and left 12 million in cap room on the table. No one to blame but themselves.

Lou said it himself - "I don't want to think of what this defense looks like if we lose both Bell and Bates." Lou told you before the season even started.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-15-2023, 11:51 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, I think the Bills have shown they are flawed on offense and just fired their OC.

That sure seems like "we need a fall guy" move. They can't blame their highly paid QB, who continues to lead the league in turnovers since he entered, so they have to blame someone else.

[*Synric*]

It was a cascade of ugly up front. Every backup defensive lineman got reps didn't just do nothing they looked straight up bad.

[Housh]

(11-15-2023, 11:56 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Blame the front office. Wonder if they "value" the position now?

They went bargain shopping with Nick Scott, let a quality player in Bell walk, and left 12 million in cap room on the table. No one to blame but themselves.

Lou said it himself - "I don't want to think of what this defense looks like if we lose both Bell and Bates." Lou told you before the season even started.

It’s a bit unacceptable too because literally everyone said resign Bates or Bell


We all were ok with losing one but literally everyone said you can’t lose both

Bates and Reader are the pieces that allowed Lou to call defense the way he was calling it.

We are able to stop the run with a light box because Reader and we could call cover 3 so much because we had Bates who freelanced so well the cover 3 actually felt like we had 4 deep defenders back cause Bates played like he was 2 guys in coverage. That also turned our cover 2 into a pseudo cover 3 because Bates was able to cover so much ground


Without Bates we are basically
Turnover or bust.


Run defense also disappeared because Bates and Bell were decent run support guys




We just let too much talent go at once


This was a year where you kept one guy to integrate the new guy THEN let the other safety go so the impact isn’t this big

[WeezyBengal]

(11-15-2023, 12:04 PM)Housh Wrote: It’s a bit unacceptable too because literally everyone said resign Bates or Bell


We all were ok with losing one but literally everyone said you can’t lose both

Bates and Reader are the pieces that allowed Lou to call defense the way he was calling it.

We are able to stop the run with a light box because Reader and we could call cover 3 so much because we had Bates who freelanced so well the cover 3 actually felt like we had 4 deep defenders back cause Bates played like he was 2 guys in coverage. That also turned our cover 2 into a pseudo cover 3 because Bates was able to cover so much ground


Without Bates we are basically
Turnover or bust.


Run defense also disappeared because Bates and Bell were decent run support guys




We just let too much talent go at once


This was a year where you kept one guy to integrate the new guy THEN let the other safety go so the impact isn’t this big

Well, I hate to tell you...but wait until they lose Reader this off-season... 

[casear2727]

(11-15-2023, 12:04 PM)Housh Wrote: It’s a bit unacceptable too because literally everyone said resign Bates or Bell


We all were ok with losing one but literally everyone said you can’t lose both

Bates and Reader are the pieces that allowed Lou to call defense the way he was calling it.

We are able to stop the run with a light box because Reader and we could call cover 3 so much because we had Bates who freelanced so well the cover 3 actually felt like we had 4 deep defenders back cause Bates played like he was 2 guys in coverage. That also turned our cover 2 into a pseudo cover 3 because Bates was able to cover so much ground


Without Bates we are basically
Turnover or bust.


Run defense also disappeared because Bates and Bell were decent run support guys




We just let too much talent go at once


This was a year where you kept one guy to integrate the new guy THEN let the other safety go so the impact isn’t this big

Bates gave up both TDs in the AFCCG.  His last 2 years were not awesome and he was not a ball hawk.  Dax is the natural progression from a very high priced vet at a low value position.  They wanted Bell and looking only at this season is short sighted as the problem with Bell's contract is a 9M hit next year which is bad timing.  Scott has been terrible and Bell certainly would be much better but this is the NFL and every team has these personnel issues.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-15-2023, 11:56 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Dax has been superb all year, there has been little dropoff (if any) from him.

But Scott is, yeah, just putrid,

I’d say there’s at least some drop off. Dax just isn’t quite the center fielder that can cover a crazy amount of the field like Bates could. At least not yet.

He’s been pretty good overall though.

[RegularGuy22]

(11-15-2023, 12:28 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Bates gave up both TDs in the AFCCG.  His last 2 years were not awesome and he was not a ball hawk.  Dax is the natural progression from a very high priced vet at a low value position.  They wanted Bell and looking only at this season is short sighted as the problem with Bell's contract is a 9M hit next year which is bad timing.  Scott has been terrible and Bell certainly would be much better but this is the NFL and every team has these personnel issues.

Yes and other teams seem to overcome losing key players. Bates and Bell aren't the only quality DB's in the league.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I wanted to keep Bell, but also at some point Lou just needs some more scrutiny.

2 paid DEs, 2 paid DTs, 2 paid LBs, 1-2 paid CBs, and they've used their first 3 draft picks in BOTH of the last two drafts on defense. Not top-5 paid guys, but still paid. At some point with all those guys getting contracts and all those high draft picks, you need to ask what's going on that we don't have better results right now.

If he needs paid guys at every position on the defense and the bulk of your draft in order to be good, is he actually that good?

[Housh]

(11-15-2023, 12:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I wanted to keep Bell, but also at some point Lou just needs some more scrutiny.

2 paid DEs, 2 paid DTs, 2 paid LBs, 1-2 paid CBs, and they've used their first 3 draft picks in BOTH of the last two drafts on defense. Not top-5 paid guys, but still paid. At some point with all those guys getting contracts and all those high draft picks, you need to ask what's going on that we don't have better results right now.

If he needs paid guys at every position on the defense and the bulk of your draft in order to be good, is he actually that good?

He is a good DC and his calls have won us playoff games and almost won us a Super Bowl.




But with the money being allocated to that side of the ball, it is troubling to see these issues where guys just turn stupid. Even Logan had some bad plays against Houston. The crazy part is that a lot of the issues can be fixed. Guys leaving WRs when no other WR is in their area can very easily be fixed in 3 days. Just tell guys to plaster if the d line hasn’t made a sack after 2 seconds.

[*Synric*]

(11-15-2023, 12:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I wanted to keep Bell, but also at some point Lou just needs some more scrutiny.

2 paid DEs, 2 paid DTs, 2 paid LBs, 1-2 paid CBs, and they've used their first 3 draft picks in BOTH of the last two drafts on defense. Not top-5 paid guys, but still paid. At some point with all those guys getting contracts and all those high draft picks, you need to ask what's going on that we don't have better results right now.

If he needs paid guys at every position on the defense and the bulk of your draft in order to be good, is he actually that good?

To be fair alot of the issue is the development of the drafted defensive linemen. That 2021 heavy trench draft looks like a failure which is why they will likely have to do something similar this year.

[*ochocincos*]

We knew there would be risk with those coming in to replace departing guys and if/when injuries occur.

Murphy isn't an adequate replacement for Hubbard (yet) when out.
Scott is well below what we're used to from Bell/Bates.
Irv Smith is well below what we're used to from the TE spot.

Hill, CTB, and Turner have played well though, so they seem like good picks so far.

Let's be honest though...is this team worse than it was the past two years due to departures?
Defense is definitely worse compared to previous two seasons.
Offensive line does seem to be somewhat better, at least in terms of sacks allowed. They're still seemingly allowing a lot of pressures though, and the run game is not any better than previous years.
Pass catchers not as good this year compared to previous two years, mainly due to TE room.

[TigerStripes]

(11-15-2023, 10:46 AM)Toronto Bengal Wrote: Scott is absolutely trash. Quite evident the loss of Bell is huge. He was solid all round and provided great run support. CTB for all is interceptions , the lack of run support and tackling ability is concerning especially against the Ravens.  In the last minute plus against Texans he could have easily tackled their player in bounds but let him get out to stop the clock. Can't have that happen

Did I read somewhere CTB dislocated a finger in the Texans game, and then came back in?  Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought that's what I read.  I'm not "excusing" the inability to keep him in bounds, but I have to think that may have been a factor, if true.

[Bing Ghuls]

(11-15-2023, 11:41 AM)Joelist Wrote: Remember a safety a lot of fans didn't "get"? Name of Chris Crocker. Not the best athlete but strangely when he was in the whole back end of the defense played better 

Rep


Bell was 30.  Bengals do not give anyone over 30 anything more than a one year deal.  Probably a good policy overall but it really hurt us to lose both Bates and bell.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-15-2023, 02:13 PM)TigerStripes Wrote: Did I read somewhere CTB dislocated a finger in the Texans game, and then came back in?  Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought that's what I read.  I'm not "excusing" the inability to keep him in bounds, but I have to think that may have been a factor, if true.

He definitely had a finger injury at one point.

[R3stangs]

(11-15-2023, 11:55 AM)Nepa Wrote: To be honest, it was Scott and Pratt. On reviewing the play, it seemed to me that Pratt was only trying to rip the ball out and not tackle Brown, which failed miserably. Brown was yards short of the line marking the range for the FG kick, and the kicker had never made a 50-yarder in his life, so that was a huge mistake in trying to rip the ball out rather than just tackle the receiver. 

Got to be honest. I'm tired of watching guys get 3-5 more yards because everyone is trying to strip the ball rather than make a tackle. its constant these days.