Why is Joe Mixon under appreciated?

[Millhouse]

I would say it's because of a couple of reasons. He has already hit his 'ceiling' so to speak to many out there. He also has been the primary back since he was drafted, and folks are ready to move on or phase someone else in more & more due to his 'ceiling' as he is not a home run hitter.

Personally I am in that camp myself, but I don't think he is bad or anything like that. He is a good running back. But I'm just ready for a change of scenery. Hopefully Chase Brown with that speed continues to grow and take that mantle next year.

Anyways just my two cents.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-12-2023, 04:57 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I would say it's because of a couple of reasons. He has already hit his 'ceiling' so to speak to many out there. He also has been the primary back since he was drafted, and folks are ready to move on or phase someone else in more & more due to his 'ceiling' as he is not a home run hitter.

Personally I am in that camp myself, but I don't think he is bad or anything like that. He is a good running back. But I'm just ready for a change of scenery. Hopefully Chase Brown with that speed continues to grow and take that mantle next year.

Anyways just my two cents.

Me too. I would like him to go out on a high note. But I know we need to get more dynamic at RB. Brown might give us the flash just not sure if he could carry the load if needed. I personally wouldn't mind Mixon back next season but I certainly wouldn't mind trying to improve the position either. Whether that's adding someone along with Mixon or replacing him. I just don't like people trying to blame our bad run game on Mixon alone. Our issues run deeper than that.

[BFritz21]

(12-12-2023, 04:57 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I would say it's because of a couple of reasons. He has already hit his 'ceiling' so to speak to many out there. He also has been the primary back since he was drafted, and folks are ready to move on or phase someone else in more & more due to his 'ceiling' as he is not a home run hitter.

Personally I am in that camp myself, but I don't think he is bad or anything like that. He is a good running back. But I'm just ready for a change of scenery. Hopefully Chase Brown with that speed continues to grow and take that mantle next year.

Anyways just my two cents.

I agree that he has hit his ceiling and, like you, I want to see more of Chase Brown and I'm excited about him next year.

Having said that, I have been impressed with Mixon this year because he has been running hard and running downhill, as opposed to recent years when it felt like he was trying to be too cute and dancing too much.

Now, it feels like, even if he doesn't start off at full speed, he picks his spot quickly and, when he does, he runs hard the rest of the play.

I realize that his yards per carry aren't as high as his second and third years in the league, but that could be for a number of reasons.

I do think that this could be his last hoorah and, like you, I've been impressed with Brown in his limited time and I'd like to see more of him.

At least for the rest of this season, if Mixon keeps running hard, I like him as our main back with Brown offering a change-of-pace and fresh legs that the defense isn't ready for.

[*bfine32*]

Don't mistake my defense of JM in this thread to be an indicator I don't want him replaced. It's just I think he brings more to the team than given credit for by some. As mentioned earlier I give a bell cow credit especially when he's averaging over 4 YPC. Although I question his character it appears the team loves him and he's a great locker-room guy. and extra 1/2 YPC doesn't necessarily make up for that.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-12-2023, 01:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Barry Sanders played on some very craptacular Lions teams, he still managed to shine.  I'm just saying that you 'excusing' Mixon's career subpar performance numbers because of his teammates is pretty weak sauce.

*sighs
Barry, Emmit, Adrian Peterson, all generational talents. Mixon is not on that level so trying to compare him to those kinda guys is embarrassing to them.
But ask Barry if he'd rather Run then Shake or Shake in the backfield then Run. Everyone knows Barry had some big gains frequently but EVERYONE remembers him Juking guys in the backfield, why? because his OL was that bad.

Also i have no idea where people seem to think he has no stiff arm. He can and has a pretty good one. We just saw it this past weekend when he caught a screen and stiff armed a guy and got another 7ish yards. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA3RUw0Q9QI

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-12-2023, 05:37 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree that he has hit his ceiling and, like you, I want to see more of Chase Brown and I'm excited about him next year.

Having said that, I have been impressed with Mixon this year because he has been running hard and running downhill, as opposed to recent years when it felt like he was trying to be too cute and dancing too much.

Now, it feels like, even if he doesn't start off at full speed, he picks his spot quickly and, when he does, he runs hard the rest of the play.

I realize that his yards per carry aren't as high as his second and third years in the league, but that could be for a number of reasons.

I do think that this could be his last hoorah and, like you, I've been impressed with Brown in his limited time and I'd like to see more of him.

At least for the rest of this season, if Mixon keeps running hard, I like him as our main back with Brown offering a change-of-pace and fresh legs that the defense isn't ready for.

yes i'm fine with Upgrading Mixon IF we have the chance, but we still don't know if Brown can handle it, or who's available next year when it's our turn to draft.

Mixon is still under contract for next year, let Brown take it from Mixon if he can, if not then we will obviously have to look to the draft for a replacement or sign Mixon for another couple years on the cheap. Either way, that's the way we will likely move forward. 

Still have other key positions that need attention first

[Luvnit2]

(12-12-2023, 02:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The topic is why is Joe Mixon under appreciated.  I gave my opinion as it being because he often has complete streaks of games where he is virtually ineffective.  Not sure why you want to turn it into some Joe Mixon apologist tribute by deflecting his shortcomings as being the fault of his teammates, but ok.  Carry on..

Is Mixon bad streaks you describe because we may have been too pass heavy? Was he playing 100% healthy or nicked up?

Can you provide some texture to these steaks you mention? 

I never said Mixon was close to a HOF back, far from it, but just reading through my thread it appears many don't respect how hard it is to hold onto the football and get yards when a lot of times, no hole.

I love what Chase Brown brings, I pray he becomes a HOF 3 down back, but for now perfect compliment for Mixon.

A lot of our fans do not respect Joe, but it is obvious the coaches and his team mates do which tells me a lot. You get named a captain if you don't provide something extra in the locker room called leaderhip.

[Luvnit2]

(12-12-2023, 05:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Don't mistake my defense of JM in this thread to be an indicator I don't want him replaced. It's just I think he brings more to the team than given credit for by some. As mentioned earlier I give a bell cow credit especially when he's averaging over 4 YPC. Although I question his character it appears the team loves him and he's a great locker-room guy. and extra 1/2 YPC doesn't necessarily make up for that.

I think this is spot on.

Positive rep!!

[reuben.ahmed]

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/look-joe-mixon-holding-back-bengals-rushing-attack-in-2023

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-12-2023, 09:53 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/look-joe-mixon-holding-back-bengals-rushing-attack-in-2023

It's an article from after the Steelers game. Which I'm not sure how anyone who gets paid to write about sports talks about our run blocking efficiency after that game in particular. Do we need to get more dynamic in the future at the RB spot? I think we would all say yes. But we also need to change how we attack on offense with more of an emphasis on the run game. I know we have done better the last two but we will need to carry that into the future. We have a good one two punch going right now. I would also like to say that 75ypg has alot more to do with our team than Mixon. It's about amount of rushing attempts and more than anything amount or lack there of  usage of other backs.

[puddycat]

Why..?
1) Because fans don't notice when Joe Mixon doesn't fumble.
2) Because he's played behind a line that has been very bad at times.
3) Because he plays for a team that has not valued the run game or the screen game.
4) Because he almost never remains on his feet when expected to go down.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(12-12-2023, 04:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Just looking at the 3 years that Perine was with the Bengals 2020-2022, Perine averaged 4.42/carry on 213 carries while Mixon averaged 3.94/carry on 621 carries.  Perine achieved a half yard/carry better behind the same OL.

I love Perine, and still wish that he was here, but to add some perspective, he got quite a few 'play it safe' 3rd and long draw plays to help boost that yards per carry.

[*Synric*]

Next Gen Stats has Mixon at -22 Rushing Yards Over Expected for the year. That means Joe Mixon has lost 22 yards that the OL has blocked for this year while not creating any yards on his own.

[reuben.ahmed]

(12-12-2023, 10:33 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: It's an article from after the Steelers game. Which I'm not sure how anyone who gets paid to write about sports talks about our run blocking efficiency after that game in particular. Do we need to get more dynamic in the future at the RB spot? I think we would all say yes. But we also need to change how we attack on offense with more of an emphasis on the run game. I know we have done better the last two but we will need to carry that into the future. We have a good one two punch going right now. I would also like to say that 75ypg has alot more to do with our team than Mixon. It's about amount of rushing attempts and more than anything amount or lack there of  usage of other backs.

Yes but 1) that is "recent" and 2) he talks about last season stats where Mixon is nearly worst in the league (like 50th/60th in eligible RBs) in most important stats. It also shows their run blocking is not bad this year. If you remember through 4 games or so last year he had the worst start of any RB ever (2.2YPC?). That has to be a few other things, the OL probably came into play. I also think Mixon doesn't tell the coaches certain plays he's not good at (like running outside the numbers). He's very good at pass catching with space. We can't cherry pick an argument with recency bias. What makes someone good - consistency. And not consistently below average lol

I hope we give Chase Brown years of under performance before we judge him, not just 1 or 2 bad plays of zero yards that Mixon will give routinely. Chase Brown gets years and he's already shown something; RBs fall off a cliff earlier in their career.

Mixon still seems to have a motivational problem too, but maybe that's more on coaching, he definitely plays better when another RB on his team is playing well. (Gio, Perine, Brown, etc).

But 1 thing Ja'marr shows you is speed kills and Mixon is not fast relatively speaking, especially to Brown. The league is small and fast now, Mixon is of the old state, even given that he's not a guarantee in short yardage scenarios.

I'd like to see our 3rd and short game numbers (how often we pass vs. rush and how often we convert short yardage scenarios w/ a run) vs the rest of the league.

Can you win a superbowl with Mixon though, yes, but the Bengals run game has held them back under Burrow IMO. Now we see what Browning can do with a real run game, is it only Chase Brown causing this (coming off IR)?The same question can be asked can you win a superbowl with Brad Robbins, I think the answer is no. A playoff team will crush that guy for 30 yard punts. Could we win a superbowl with randy bullock, no. That's the territory he's encroaching (but not there yet IMO).

If we need Mixon to get 100 rushing yards in a game to win, when is the last time he did that. Like Mahomes let his RBs win the superbowl. I don't have faith in a Mixon 100 yard game. If he gets it once recently, good for us and good for him, but that's not consistent at all and he doesn't have time left in his career for us to ever think that.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-12-2023, 08:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Is Mixon bad streaks you describe because we may have been too pass heavy? Was he playing 100% healthy or nicked up?

It's really very simple, he does not play up to expectations nearly as often as he should.  Him having a 'good' game, given the raw material of himself and his demonstrated ability, is the expectation and should not be the 'surprise' when it happens.  All too often, sometimes for several games in a row, his performance is well below what should be expected from a player of his perceived caliber.

Sure, there are instances where a play gets blown up or the opposing defense just made a really good play, but we're talking about a consistent pattern of underperforming.  We've all seen plenty of plays where he takes the handoff and then attempts to pick and choose his spots, rather than hitting the first hole and taking it for all that it's worth.  On outside runs where it's obvious that he's not getting to the edge, he continues to string the play towards the sideline, rather than simply cutting up any of the two or three lanes that were there for the taking.

I don't pay for any of the advanced statistical services, but thankfully some other board members do and have provided some specific examples in this very thread.  The data that they have provided is showing that not only does he not gain yardage that the line has already blocked open for him, but he has one of the lower yards after contact averages in the league.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-13-2023, 08:21 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Yes but 1) that is "recent" and 2) he talks about last season stats where Mixon is nearly worst in the league (like 50th/60th in eligible RBs) in most important stats. It also shows their run blocking is not bad this year. If you remember through 4 games or so last year he had the worst start of any RB ever (2.2YPC?). That has to be a few other things, the OL probably came into play. I also think Mixon doesn't tell the coaches certain plays he's not good at (like running outside the numbers). He's very good at pass catching with space. We can't cherry pick an argument with recency bias. What makes someone good - consistency. And not consistently below average lol

I hope we give Chase Brown years of under performance before we judge him, not just 1 or 2 bad plays of zero yards that Mixon will give routinely. Chase Brown gets years and he's already shown something; RBs fall off a cliff earlier in their career.

Mixon still seems to have a motivational problem too, but maybe that's more on coaching, he definitely plays better when another RB on his team is playing well. (Gio, Perine, Brown, etc).

But 1 thing Ja'marr shows you is speed kills and Mixon is not fast relatively speaking, especially to Brown. The league is small and fast now, Mixon is of the old state, even given that he's not a guarantee in short yardage scenarios.

I'd like to see our 3rd and short game numbers (how often we pass vs. rush and how often we convert short yardage scenarios w/ a run) vs the rest of the league.

Can you win a superbowl with Mixon though, yes, but the Bengals run game has held them back under Burrow IMO. Now we see what Browning can do with a real run game, is it only Chase Brown causing this (coming off IR)?The same question can be asked can you win a superbowl with Brad Robbins, I think the answer is no. A playoff team will crush that guy for 30 yard punts. Could we win a superbowl with randy bullock, no. That's the territory he's encroaching (but not there yet IMO).

If we need Mixon to get 100 rushing yards in a game to win, when is the last time he did that. Like Mahomes let his RBs win the superbowl. I don't have faith in a Mixon 100 yard game. If he gets it once recently, good for us and good for him, but that's not consistent at all and he doesn't have time left in his career for us to ever think that.

I know we need to get better at RB. But my whole point is that Mixon isn't the biggest problem with our run game. We all want to say our run game stinks and point to all Mixons flaws which he certainly does have. But another good example of Mixon not being the biggest problem in the run game. Is what you mentioned last year he started out 2.2ypc well it was a new unit that is going to take time to get acclimated(even Burrow struggled behind them at 1st) then there was the whole only going under center when we were running (or whatever it was where we were basically tipping our hand on the run). Again Mixon does have his flaws is he part of the problem with the run game certainly but not the biggest problem. But he will be replaced at some point in the near future. We should just focus on what the team can do better.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-12-2023, 09:37 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There's an old saying in the carpentry world that goes something like 'Tis a poor craftsman who blames his tools for a bad product'.  I think the same can be applied to skill players in team sports.

That and the fact that you can turn on pretty much any All 22 and see some big holes that he missed over the years. I'm not here to dog him with this post but the "bad oline" is not a valid argument for the majority of his 'problems'. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-13-2023, 07:16 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That and the fact that you can turn on pretty much any All 22 and see some big holes that he missed over the years. I'm not here to dog him with this post but the "bad oline" is not a valid argument for the majority of his 'problems'. 

Is the "bad oline" an excuse for Burrow? Because apparently how he likes to run offense hangs them out to dry.

[ezekiel23]

I think that this Jake Browning Offense,as opposed to the Joe Burrow Offense is going to benefit Mixon.Especially with QB going under center more.Add to that,the fact that we have a one two punch now with Chase Brown getting more carries.

Mixon is showing more intensity now that Chase Brown is able to take some of the load off him.

[Bengalitis]

Mixon, depending on the game, would either play hard or drop on touch. I dont think he is underappreciated, I think most think he was in control if he wanted to play 100% or 50% effort on his free will.. With Brown around, he knows and feels he can be made the #2, then the free agent way....