I don't intend this to be a negative thread. I just wanted to bring up a couple of things and I thought we could put positive or negative things we've noticed.
But a common criticism I have had of Zac is his situational football. I think trick plays and short yardage gimmick plays fall under that umbrella. Taylor deserves a ton of credit for the team rallying around Browning and has silenced many of the doubters myself included. But these last few games while great we still have bad situational football. I keep hoping we will improve in this regard but it doesn't seem to be happening. The trick plays against Jax were bad and they've been talked about. But again in this game we come up with another bad trick play that could've cost us the game. Maybe like all plays you can say if it works your a genius if it doesn't your dumb. But the trick play came at the end of a solid 1st drive in a time when most teams have scripted plays on a 3rd and 1 when the offense had been moving effectively. I mean the list goes on and on why that was not a good time to run a play like that. Another play I didn't like was the tush push. I felt not only were we running well but it was not a play we should be trying in a time when we absolutely need it. Luckily Mixon bailed us out. But I think that tends to happen with failed situational football if you win it doesn't matter and if you lose there were more reasons for the loss. It's just something I think we need to address in the future as so many games come down to a field goal.
I missed the 1st 3 qtrs live and have since rewatched the game and I do want to say that it was probably one of the most exciting 4th qtrs I've seen in what feels like a while. But I also feel like we didn't scheme this game as much for Browning as we did in the 2 other games. Again the coaches deserve a ton of credit but in this game I think it was the players that really bailed us out.
Even I hated the Tanner Hudson pass on third and 1
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
(12-18-2023, 03:10 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't intend this to be a negative thread. I just wanted to bring up a couple of things and I thought we could put positive or negative things we've noticed.
But a common criticism I have had of Zac is his situational football. I think trick plays and short yardage gimmick plays fall under that umbrella. Taylor deserves a ton of credit for the team rallying around Browning and has silenced many of the doubters myself included. But these last few games while great we still have bad situational football. I keep hoping we will improve in this regard but it doesn't seem to be happening. The trick plays against Jax were bad and they've been talked about. But again in this game we come up with another bad trick play that could've cost us the game. Maybe like all plays you can say if it works your a genius if it doesn't your dumb. But the trick play came at the end of a solid 1st drive in a time when most teams have scripted plays on a 3rd and 1 when the offense had been moving effectively. I mean the list goes on and on why that was not a good time to run a play like that. Another play I didn't like was the tush push. I felt not only were we running well but it was not a play we should be trying in a time when we absolutely need it. Luckily Mixon bailed us out. But I think that tends to happen with failed situational football if you win it doesn't matter and if you lose there were more reasons for the loss. It's just something I think we need to address in the future as so many games come down to a field goal.
I missed the 1st 3 qtrs live and have since rewatched the game and I do want to say that it was probably one of the most exciting 4th qtrs I've seen in what feels like a while. But I also feel like we didn't scheme this game as much for Browning as we did in the 2 other games. Again the coaches deserve a ton of credit but in this game I think it was the players that really bailed us out.
I disagree about the trick play this past Sunday. Tanner Hudson is a former QB, it's 3rd and short so the defense is probably expecting a run or the QB throwing after faking a run. Credit to the Vikings defense for not being sucked in and sticking with the receivers. To me, this is no different than calling a play action pass that sees the receivers blanketed and Browning having to run out of bounds and lose yardage.
So yeah, it sucked that it didn't work, but I don't think it warrants any extra criticism aside from the mindset that we should've just run the ball.
(12-18-2023, 03:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Even I hated the Tanner Hudson pass on third and 1
Yeah and it was an under center empty backfield which caught my eye and I'm sure caught the defenses eye. Another small thing I noticed is we threw a WR screen to Chase and he was tackled quickly. But the thing that caught my eye was Sample was out wide as a blocker. Just got me wondering if that is normal per the last few weeks seems like he is either in line or in the backfield. Just don't want to tip our hands.
(12-18-2023, 03:20 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I disagree about the trick play this past Sunday. Tanner Hudson is a former QB, it's 3rd and short so the defense is probably expecting a run or the QB throwing after faking a run. Credit to the Vikings defense for not being sucked in and sticking with the receivers. To me, this is no different than calling a play action pass that sees the receivers blanketed and Browning having to run out of bounds and lose yardage.
So yeah, it sucked that it didn't work, but I don't think it warrants any extra criticism aside from the mindset that we should've just run the ball.
It was an empty backfield though so it was already alerting the defense. I thought about the Hudson being a former QB but to me it's not so much the play itself. It's a taking is out of our bread and butter normal offense to pick up a crucial yard. But it's just something to keep an eye on.
(12-18-2023, 03:10 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't intend this to be a negative thread. I just wanted to bring up a couple of things and I thought we could put positive or negative things we've noticed.
But a common criticism I have had of Zac is his situational football. I think trick plays and short yardage gimmick plays fall under that umbrella. Taylor deserves a ton of credit for the team rallying around Browning and has silenced many of the doubters myself included. But these last few games while great we still have bad situational football. I keep hoping we will improve in this regard but it doesn't seem to be happening. The trick plays against Jax were bad and they've been talked about. But again in this game we come up with another bad trick play that could've cost us the game. Maybe like all plays you can say if it works your a genius if it doesn't your dumb. But the trick play came at the end of a solid 1st drive in a time when most teams have scripted plays on a 3rd and 1 when the offense had been moving effectively. I mean the list goes on and on why that was not a good time to run a play like that. Another play I didn't like was the tush push. I felt not only were we running well but it was not a play we should be trying in a time when we absolutely need it. Luckily Mixon bailed us out. But I think that tends to happen with failed situational football if you win it doesn't matter and if you lose there were more reasons for the loss. It's just something I think we need to address in the future as so many games come down to a field goal.
I missed the 1st 3 qtrs live and have since rewatched the game and I do want to say that it was probably one of the most exciting 4th qtrs I've seen in what feels like a while. But I also feel like we didn't scheme this game as much for Browning as we did in the 2 other games. Again the coaches deserve a ton of credit but in this game I think it was the players that really bailed us out.
They might have gotten caught out thinking themselves against Minny with its stout run defense. Otherwise, I thought it was a good enough game. There were two Tee Higgins drops that changed the course a little bit, and that bad INT. The first Higgins drop was the first play of the game. It's a big gainer, and maybe a tuddy if he makes someone miss. That's a big momentum gainer out of the gate. The other one would've at least set up 3 points. The interception obviously killed a drive.
That all being said, the two guys with the critical errors early, ultimately won the game for them. Mentally tough players are key. This team doesn't panic, and it doesn't quit. With, or without QB9. There's a lot to be said for that quality.
Assuming we continue to generate decent offense, the part that scares me is the defense. This will never be confused with a championship type defense. Once again, backup QB's starting TE's and backup RB's continue to have their way with us. And I cant help but get the feeling that this offense will just sputter again for a chunk of the remaining games.
Not worried about anything other than the attitude this football team has. No matter how many points they're down, no matter who they're playing, not matter where they're playing, no matter who can't play, they still believe and find a way to win.
(12-18-2023, 05:49 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: Not worried about anything other than the attribute this football team has. No matter how many points they're down, no matter who they're playing, not matter where they're playing, no matter who can't play, they still believe and find a way to win.
That's all I'm worried about.
Agree with this. The good teams find a way, and we've done so despite pretty enormous setbacks this season. At 5-6 it would've been easy for guys to not believe in Browning and just start cashing payday money, but they're clearly playing hard and keeping in this dogfight. Much as I hate the Steelers and Ravens, something I've always thought is to their credit is how much both franchises are always there fighting to be competitive. We're seeing that a lot more from the Bengals now too which is great.
(12-18-2023, 06:10 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Agree with this. The good teams find a way, and we've done so despite pretty enormous setbacks this season. At 5-6 it would've been easy for guys to not believe in Browning and just start cashing payday money, but they're clearly playing hard and keeping in this dogfight. Much as I hate the Steelers and Ravens, something I've always thought is to their credit is how much both franchises are always there fighting to be competitive. We're seeing that a lot more from the Bengals now too which is great.
I was reading a post by I believe Wyche’s Warriors. Someone was bemoaning Taylor and what would happen to him if he got fired. The poster acted like nobody would hire him as an OC. Wyche said he’d be hired the second he was fired as a head coach to bring the culture he’s established here. The locker room is as dynamic as you’ll find. Duke sure had a hand but Zac was architect how they drafted. He said I want video of them interacting with teammates. He was driver in drafting team captains and people of high character like Ted Karras and CTB, and many others.
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
(12-18-2023, 06:33 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I was reading a post by I believe Wyche’s Warriors. Someone was bemoaning Taylor and what would happen to him if he got fired. The poster acted like nobody would hire him as an OC. Wyche said he’d be hired the second he was fired as a head coach to bring the culture he’s established here. The locker room is as dynamic as you’ll find. Duke sure had a hand but Zac was architect how they drafted. He said I want video of them interacting with teammates. He was driver in drafting team captains and people of high character like Ted Karras and CTB, and many others.
Absolutely. I don't think Zac is perfect, but he's largely pretty damn good, and whether you love the playcalling or not he's clearly established a really good culture here. It's night and day from Marvin's teams.
(12-18-2023, 05:28 PM)Wyche Wrote: They might have gotten caught out thinking themselves against Minny with its stout run defense. Otherwise, I thought it was a good enough game. There were two Tee Higgins drops that changed the course a little bit, and that bad INT. The first Higgins drop was the first play of the game. It's a big gainer, and maybe a tuddy if he makes someone miss. That's a big momentum gainer out of the gate. The other one would've at least set up 3 points. The interception obviously killed a drive.
That all being said, the two guys with the critical errors early, ultimately won the game for them. Mentally tough players are key. This team doesn't panic, and it doesn't quit. With, or without QB9. There's a lot to be said for that quality.
You might be right about overthinking the run. I thought Minnesota was gonna be our toughest test in this stretch. I was surprised we ran as well as we did even though our attempts were limited. The other thing that stood out to me after watching the game over was how well Browning played. There was the bad pick and even the TD to time in the end sure looked like it was gonna get picked until Higgins pulled some magic. But he constantly extended plays to give our guys chances and just barely missed Charlie Jones for a TD.
(12-18-2023, 05:47 PM)Browns Town Bengal Wrote: Assuming we continue to generate decent offense, the part that scares me is the defense. This will never be confused with a championship type defense. Once again, backup QB's starting TE's and backup RB's continue to have their way with us. And I cant help but get the feeling that this offense will just sputter again for a chunk of the remaining games.
I think that RB is better than we give him credit and has been looking like he was due for a game. Not saying we didn't make him look better than he should've in a couple of instances.
I'm not sure why the defense doesn't scare me as you said they might be the biggest factor in our ceiling limit this season. It's probably because I suspected they would take a step back this year and I hoped they could make up for it with turnovers which they've done and then some. But it's hard to live on turnovers. Overall they are exciting to watch.
(12-18-2023, 07:16 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Absolutely. I don't think Zac is perfect, but he's largely pretty damn good, and whether you love the playcalling or not he's clearly established a really good culture here. It's night and day from Marvin's teams.
While I can't argue with the culture we have now and credit goes from the top down. It may be a bit unfair to compare it to Marvin Lewis he never had the FA we have given to Zac which I think caused them to take some risks talent>character in the draft and obviously Burfict as a UDFA.
But as long as we are talking character and it may be unfairly given but I love Mike Hilton and I feel his impact may never be fully realized by us on the outside. I always thought the teams from winning culture was a bit overblown but I have loved his attitude and character from that 1st training camp when the DBs started they're own little competitions. Solid play on the field and I love always seeing him on the sideline hyping up our offensive players.
Not worried about anything but injuries. Not even worried about making the playoffs. Sometimes good teams need an adjustment to get back on track. I believe this team can miss the playoffs this year and play in the Super Bowl next season. I don't think it is all that crazy.
Remember the Rams were very good and got to the Super Bowl, then lost. ( How Taylor was got hired here ). They came back and beat us years later in the Super Bowl. Get these young guys evaluated and experienced. Have Taylor learn different ways to call plays with Burrow, screw Browning by having him stay the back-up here, make a run next year with a good draft and free agency.
The Hudson play was horrible. It was obviously going to be a pass. Nobody was buying it was designed to be Hudson running. Stop with the stupid plays when the offense is clicking.
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