"Sweating " bullets

[Au165]

So here is what is funny, Sweat's actual athletic testing numbers are really good when adjusting for size. He is significantly larger than most NT's but hit the prerequisites for explosiveness crushed all the timed drills by a fair amount according to Kent Platte (Math Bomb). I think people sometimes have a hard time contextualizing his performance because they look at DT as one position when it really isn't. He is a great athlete for the position at his size and I think he makes a ton of sense in the 2nd, I just have concerns at 18. Now If you told me we went back to the mid 20's and got another 3rd? Yea, I'd be game.

[Okeana]

I like Sweat, but he's not a unicorn in this class and honestly, he may not even be the best fit for the position in this draft.  I could see Sweat sliding into the 3rd round easily.   Here are some data points to prove a point.





Guys like Evan Anderson and Kris Jenkins have a higher win rate vs the run.  Kris Jenkin comes from a family of NFL players and his father was a 4 time pro bowl DT.  DJ Reader was selected in the 5th round of the draft, so no Sweat is not a first-round DT, stop reaching for players

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2024, 10:45 AM)kalibengal Wrote: As we get closer to draft days , the obvious hole at NT we need to fill has me getting nervous. I keep seeing Sweat being ranked in the 25 to 40 range which puts him out of reach at pick #49. I hope they can swing a trade to get us in that range to grab him....after him its really one other guy : Jackson who is hard to tell about where he may get picked (rounds 3 to 5?) . What happens if they whiff completely in draft? Any potential trade targets or late cuts out there?
I have a bad feeling that one of the AFC N rivals will draft Sweat or Jackson.

Big NT's like Sweat that have questions about work ethic fall every draft. I honestly see him making it to 49 no problem. The question to me
is if we even take him with the work ethic questions. For the record I am for taking Sweat, I just am not as high on him as I was and honestly
like McKinnley Jackson just as much for our DJ Reader replacement who has high character and fits what we like.

We should be able to get Jackson with one of our 3rd round picks, yah never know, could get Sweat there too. Just the way the Draft works 
every year. Don't put too much stock in the rankings and don't get desperate for one player over another. I also really like Dorlus or the guy
with NFL bloodlines in Kris Jenkins just as much as these guys.

[NATI BENGALS]

Here is a list of the DTs who have won the Outland trophy over the last 20 years.

2023 Sweat
2021 Jordan Davis
2018 Quinnen Williams
2017 Ed Oliver
2013 Aaron Donald
2009 Ndamukong Suh

Any of those guys turn out to be good?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2024, 06:20 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Here is a list of the DTs who have won the Outland trophy over the last 20 years.

2023 Sweat
2021 Jordan Davis
2018 Quinnen Williams
2017 Ed Oliver
2013 Aaron Donald
2009 Ndamukong Suh

Any of those guys turn out to be good?

I notice you left a bunch of years out. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-04-2024, 06:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I notice you left a bunch of years out. 

OL can win it too

[Okeana]

(04-04-2024, 06:20 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Here is a list of the DTs who have won the Outland trophy over the last 20 years.

2023 Sweat
2021 Jordan Davis
2018 Quinnen Williams
2017 Ed Oliver
2013 Aaron Donald
2009 Ndamukong Suh

Any of those guys turn out to be good?

you guys heard it here first, Sweat is the next Aaron Donald

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(04-04-2024, 05:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Big NT's like Sweat that have questions about work ethic fall every draft. I honestly see him making it to 49 no problem. The question to me
is if we even take him with the work ethic questions. For the record I am for taking Sweat, I just am not as high on him as I was and honestly
like McKinnley Jackson just as much for our DJ Reader replacement who has high character and fits what we like.

We should be able to get Jackson with one of our 3rd round picks, yah never know, could get Sweat there too. Just the way the Draft works 
every year. Don't put too much stock in the rankings and don't get desperate for one player over another. I also really like Dorlus or the guy
with NFL bloodlines in Kris Jenkins just as much as these guys.

I agree.

Heard rumors he would not step on the scale before the combine and looked 380+ at the senior bowl.

If he is not willing to stay in shape for the most important events coming up in his life, does he have the disciple to stay in shape once he gets paid?

An associate of mine said you never trust a fat chef to keep a clean kitchen, because they lack discipline.  I think Sweat slips due to a perceived lack of discipline, and rightfully so, even though I am bullish on him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2024, 06:35 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: OL can win it too

Ah, don't really follow the college awards. Prefer film, but yeah, those are some great names of DT's.

(04-04-2024, 06:59 PM)Okeana Wrote: you guys heard it here first, Sweat is the next Aaron Donald

(04-04-2024, 07:07 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I agree.

Heard rumors he would not step on the scale before the combine and looked 380+ at the senior bowl.

If he is not willing to stay in shape for the most important events coming up in his life, does he have the disciple to stay in shape once he gets paid?

An associate of mine said you never trust a fat chef to keep a clean kitchen, because they lack discipline.  I this Sweat slips due to a perceived lack of discipline, and rightfully so, even though I am bullish on him.

Didn't hear that rumor. Heard he came in and was 366 pounds, really big, but could of been worse and he isn't unathletic for 
being that big at all either. But yeah, these are questions about Sweat whether they are of concern or not. He should fall to the
late 2nd pretty sure. I think a lot of this is Bengals fans know NT is a huge need and are acting like there are no other options
and that other teams will be desperate for a NT early which we all know is hardly ever the case.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2024, 07:07 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I agree.

Heard rumors he would not step on the scale before the combine and looked 380+ at the senior bowl.

If he is not willing to stay in shape for the most important events coming up in his life, does he have the disciple to stay in shape once he gets paid?

An associate of mine said you never trust a fat chef to keep a clean kitchen, because they lack discipline.  I this Sweat slips due to a perceived lack of discipline, and rightfully so, even though I am bullish on him.

At 6'5" with that much mass over a big frame, how in the hell can anyone tell with the eye test if the guy weighs 366 or 380?  They're going to argue less they're going to argue less than 4%? Pretty sure that he likely fluctuates that much over a 24 hr period of time. He's not auditioning for the cover of Woman's Day, he's auditioning to overpower other large men in the NFL. 

The argument over Sweat being too fat reminds me of the same argument about Warren Sapp. IIRC, Sapp turned in a pretty decent pro career. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2024, 07:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: At 6'5" with that much mass over a big frame, how in the hell can anyone tell with the eye test if the guy weighs 366 or 380?  They're going to argue less they're going to argue less than 4%? Pretty sure that he likely fluctuates that much over a 24 hr period of time. He's not auditioning for the cover of Woman's Day, he's auditioning to overpower other large men in the NFL. 

The argument over Sweat being too fat reminds me of the same argument about Warren Sapp. IIRC, Sapp turned in a pretty decent pro career. 

Yeah, he is a monster, he will fluctuate more than most lol

But I do think we are "sweating" getting Sweat a little too much. NT's that are primarily just run stoppers aren't usually taken in 
the early 2nd round let alone in the first. I expect him to be around at 49, I know some of the rankings say otherwise but you have
to take them with a grain of salt when considering certain positions like Nose Tackle.

The run stopping by Newton and Murphy that Okeana shown though blew my mind, I know they are more of 3-techs but damn 
that sure shows they are great at both rushing the passer and stopping the run.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2024, 07:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, he is a monster, he will fluctuate more than most lol

But I do think we are "sweating" getting Sweat a little too much. NT's that are primarily just run stoppers aren't usually taken in 
the early 2nd round let alone in the first. I expect him to be around at 49, I know some of the rankings say otherwise but you have
to take them with a grain of salt when considering certain positions like Nose Tackle.

The run stopping by Newton and Murphy that Okeana shown though blew my mind, I know they are more of 3-techs but damn 
that sure shows they are great at both rushing the passer and stopping the run.

I don't disagree with that. He's just first on my wish list, the draft won't be killed in my mind if the team opts for another NT candidate.  I'd be satisfied with McKinnley Jackson or even Maason Smith, who I think has likely the highest ceiling of any of the three. However, I also think that Smith will take a year or two to fully reach his physical potential.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2024, 07:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't disagree with that. He's just first on my wish list, the draft won't be killed in my mind if the team opts for another NT candidate.  I'd be satisfied with McKinnley Jackson or even Maason Smith, who I think has likely the highest ceiling of any of the three. However, I also think that Smith will take a year or two to fully reach his physical potential.

Completely agree. I also really like Kris Jenkins and Dorlus. It is not a Sweat or we are screwed Draft same is it is not a RT I 
really like or die Draft. We all know it is never this way. What matters is what these guys do once they get into the NFL and 
honestly I really like McKinnley Jackson to be very good at the next level with his work ethic and character.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2024, 08:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree. I also really like Kris Jenkins and Dorlus. It is not a Sweat or we are screwed Draft same is it is not a RT I 
really like or die Draft. We all know it is never this way. What matters is what these guys do once they get into the NFL and 
honestly I really like McKinnley Jackson to be very good at the next level with his work ethic and character.

Kris Jenkins is great, but I fear that he may already be closer to his ceiling than some of the others is the only reason I don't put him at or near the top of my wish list.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-04-2024, 08:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Kris Jenkins is great, but I fear that he may already be closer to his ceiling than some of the others is the only reason I don't put him at or near the top of my wish list.

Probably right, but Jenkins would still instantly make us much better against the run, nothing wrong with that.

[Stewy]

(04-04-2024, 03:12 PM)Whatever Wrote: Murphy actually lined up at NT for the Longhorns more than Sweat did.  How will his conditioning hold up when constantly faced with double teams from NFL?  He was already on the sidelines blown up in the 4th quarter of the Washington game.  Work ethic is a trait that is highly valued under Taylor, and Sweat ain't it.

I haven't seen anything regarding 400 pounds.  Reports were he looked 380-390 at the Senior Bowl, but he refused to weigh in(surprise, surprise), so nobody actually knows.

Impressive to whom?  He was the slowest DT in the 40 at the Combine, 3rd worst in the 10 Yard Split, 3rd worst Vertical, dead last Broad Jump, and didn't do the Bench,  3 cone, or 20 yard shuttle.  Impressive for a 360 pound man, maybe.  Still terrible for an NFL DT.  He has a 3.90 RAS.  He's a poor athlete, by NFL standards.  He's just big.  

You obviously haven't looked up anything about him because nothing you stated can be found in any of his Combine or recent scouting reports or his pro day.  He weighed 366 at the combine, confirmed, so bad eye....

Impressive in every report during and after the combine.  Try actually reading up on the guy because you obviously haven't.

[sandwedge]

He actually is visiting the Bengals, so there is interest.

[Whatever]

(04-04-2024, 07:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: At 6'5" with that much mass over a big frame, how in the hell can anyone tell with the eye test if the guy weighs 366 or 380?  They're going to argue less they're going to argue less than 4%? Pretty sure that he likely fluctuates that much over a 24 hr period of time. He's not auditioning for the cover of Woman's Day, he's auditioning to overpower other large men in the NFL. 

The argument over Sweat being too fat reminds me of the same argument about Warren Sapp. IIRC, Sapp turned in a pretty decent pro career. 

These are estimates from scouts who literally study these guys for a living.  They eat, sleep, breathe this stuff.  And c'mon, put one and one together, why wouldn't he weigh in at the Senior Bowl if he wasn't overweight?  If his weight was where it should have been, he would have done so no problem.

Sapp dropped because he flunked his combine drug test and then it came out he failed multiple drug tests at Miami.  Certainly, you can find guys with weight/work ethic issues in college that turned into good pros, just like you can find guys that failed drug tests that panned out, just like you can find criminals that panned out, or guys that tested terrible.  However, 99% of those guys don't pan out, which is why it's a flag and why we can't just look past it because it's convenient.  

[Whatever]

(04-04-2024, 09:38 PM)Stewy Wrote: You obviously haven't looked up anything about him because nothing you stated can be found in any of his Combine or recent scouting reports or his pro day.  He weighed 366 at the combine, confirmed, so bad eye....

Impressive in every report during and after the combine.  Try actually reading up on the guy because you obviously haven't.

You realize there's like a month between the Senior Bowl and the Combine, right?  People can gain or lose weight in a month.

You obviously haven't looked too hard at him as a prospect.

Anyways, Sweat is turning into another Auden Tate for me, and I'm done discussing him unless he actually becomes a Bengal.  

[Rotobeast]

Give me Gabe Hall in the 6th, put him on a strict diet of Skyline to add 20lbs, and let's roll.

I know it'd take a while to bulk him up, but I still want him

(I also like Boyd from Iowa)


From Draft Buzz:

In 2022 as a senior Hall logged playing time in 12 games and logged a total of 490 snaps for the Bears. He also added 19 tackles, 9 assists, and 13 stops. As a pass rusher, he tallied 26 total pressures, which included 18 QB hurries, 4 QB hits, and 4 sacks on the season.

In 2023 as a fifth year senior Hall logged playing time in 12 games and logged a total of 523 snaps for the Bears. He also added 15 tackles, 7 assists, and 13 stops. As a pass rusher, he tallied 21 total pressures, which included 19 QB hurries, no QB hits, and 2 sacks on the season

SCOUTING REPORT: STRENGTHS
Hall has heavy hands and uses them aggressively, rocking offensive linemen back. He shows the ability to disengage and out-grapple blockers in a phone booth.
A savvy, versatile and instinctive edge rusher who did a little bit of everything, Hall was especially effective getting to the quarterback.
Made Bruce Feldman's Freak's List - ranked #17. He wrote "The former high school shot putter, who had six sacks and seven TFLs in 2021, bench pressed 500 pounds, power-cleans 465 pounds, did 750 pounds on the trap bar deadlift and squatted 650 (the BU strength staff stopped him or else Hall’s probably lifting a lot more). He also hit 18.2 mph on the GPS."
His spin move is already NFL-caliber, and he displays a very good motor.
Agile and nimble footwork with smooth body control - very light on his feet. Fights through the whistle and is always chirping and going at full speed - love his effort and determination.
He has decent enough flexibility to bend the edge, and he shows a good closing burst.
Hall displays good lateral movement skills, capable of working his way down the line with decent range when chasing in pursuit.

SCOUTING REPORT: WEAKNESSES
Never out of a play, but can get out of control and work himself away from the action.
Undersized and lacks elite bulk and girth for an interior defensive lineman - will be scheme specific in the NFL.
Is still a bit raw as a pass rusher and needs to diversify his repertoire of pass-rush moves

Sent from my SM-S515DL using Tapatalk