Welcome Kris Jenkins

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 02:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well Kris Jenkins is really strong as we see from him doing that Turkish get-up, maybe he can be a very good pass rusher...

We all know Geno Atkins won with his strength, yah never know. All I know is Kris Jenkins said in his interview, he will do whatever the 
coaches want him to do to become the player they need. Whether it was playing End, a pass rushing 3-tech or eat a lot of chili and play NT.

This is just what he said. I need to watch more film on his pass rush to judge this part of his game honestly. I know he is a great run stopper
and that is what we needed more than anything.

I hope it translates in the NFL. It didn't in college though. It's hard to expect a player to do something in the NFL that they didn't do in college.

It's great when it happens. But it shouldn't be counted on.

Atkins won with his strength, but he did it in college and in the NFL.

Jenkins sounds to me like a high motor guy who will be a coach's favorite player, but will never actually become as good as you'd hope.

But again, I'm praying that I'm wrong. I want to be wrong. For the team's sake.

[Whatever]

(05-02-2024, 10:39 AM)CJD Wrote: Maybe I'd feel better if there was a similar player in the NFL that is successful? Like, are there are any 300 lb DTs that aren't great pass rushers that are pro bowlers?

I'm going down the list of elite DTs that are around 300 lbs (or less in some cases) and all of them were elite pass rushers in college:
Quinnen Williams
Johnathan Allen
DeForest Buckner
Javon Hargrave
Fletcher Cox
Geno Atkins

All of the above had at least 1 7.5 sack season in college.

Even Ed Oliver, who didn't put up big sack numbers (13.5 in 3 seasons) in college had 53 TFL in 3 seasons, so he still showed his prowess as a penetrating 3T, even if it didn't result in as many sacks. 

Maybe Kobie Turner would be a good comp for him? Kobie only had 2 sacks in his final year of college after transferring, which is similar to Jenkins' 2.5 sacks. But even Kobie had 10 TFL in his final year of college, whereas Jenkins has never exceeded 4.5 TFL in a single season. 

I don't have all the advanced statistics on every DT that came out of college, so maybe some of these guys had a sub 10% pass rush win rate like Jenkins as well but, looking at just production stats (sacks, TFL), I am not finding a player who was not a good pass rusher in college, was 300 lbs or less, and then came to the NFL and became an elite DT.

Fletcher Cox only had 7.5 sacks his entire college career.

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 03:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: Fletcher Cox only had 7.5 sacks his entire college career.

Whoops, I was looking at his TFLs.

Well then maybe Cox is my hope of what Jenkins can become

[Whatever]

(05-02-2024, 03:18 PM)CJD Wrote: Whoops, I was looking at his TFLs.

Well then maybe Cox is my hope of what Jenkins can become

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Jenkins is ever going to be an elite pass rusher.  I mean, elite pass rushers at DT are very difficult to find.  

That said, I think he can be a solid 3 down player and a steady 4-6 sack guy.

[casear2727]

(05-02-2024, 02:31 PM)CJD Wrote: Aaron Donald was a pass rusher. In college and the NFL. He had 63 TFL and 27.5 sacks in his last 3 years in college.

Kris Jenkins has 8.5 TFL, 4.5 sacks in 3 years.

If Kris Jenkins had Donald's pass rushing profile, I would not be worried at all.

But he doesn't. Not even close.

Absolutely true, but AD can defend the run as well.  I think the defensive line will play differently this season, they almost have to.  There is no DJ Reader, and McKinley is not him either despite the girth.  We don't have a guy that can stone both A gaps on the roster and still make a play.  

I can appreciate the team making a solid attempt at fixing the run issue.  We will see how Johnny Newton works out and we may regret it, but for now I just want to stop the run in the AFCN.

[*Synric*]

This Kris Jenkins pass rush discussion reminds me of Myles Murphy last year.

Strength and heavy hands will always translate well to the NFL. Jenkins needs to continue to work on his hand counters from his bull rush add in a push pull and maybe work on the arm over. Year one Jenkins is going to be the backup 3t/4t while picking up a little weight (310/312 after playing at 305) to maybe play a little shade by 2025.


Looking at the board Kris Jenkins was hands down the pick. I would say their board looked like Jenkins > Sainristil > Frazier. I'm not sure Michael Hall was on their board as they weren't looking for a rotational only DT.

[*Synric*]

Oh yea wanted to add Jenkins is gonna help the pass rush year one helping with stunts. He's an ideal guy to slant so other guys can twist and he has the lateral agility to change gaps as rhe twisting IDL.

[Joelist]

Jenkins is a quality pick. He may not have the size but he has the technique and he has strength and power in spades.

[*Synric*]

Mike Santagata with a great article today on Kris Jenkins.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/bengals-film-breakdown-what-kris-jenkins-brings-defensive-line

[*bfine32*]

Going by the 1st 4 rds only. KJ is my favorite pick. Every other choice I have about 2 "rather", but for KJ I have none. I see Leonard Willaims

[The D.O.Z.]

I like Kris's versatility first and foremost. I like his energy and his attitude a lot too. But he doesn't strike me as someone who is going to be consistently asked to play NT. I see him as a Christian Wilkins type. He can play shade NT, 3T in a 4-3 / 5-2 alignment or play a down DE in 3-4 (Hendrickson and / or Hubbard standing up as "OLBs"). Being a part of a rotation not only keeps our guys fresher, we can also be more versatile with what "looks" we're giving offenses.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-02-2024, 02:46 PM)CJD Wrote: I hope it translates in the NFL. It didn't in college though. It's hard to expect a player to do something in the NFL that they didn't do in college.

It's great when it happens. But it shouldn't be counted on.

Atkins won with his strength, but he did it in college and in the NFL.

Jenkins sounds to me like a high motor guy who will be a coach's favorite player, but will never actually become as good as you'd hope.

But again, I'm praying that I'm wrong. I want to be wrong. For the team's sake.

Understand your concerns CrazyJDawg. Cannot understate the fact that Kris Jenkins had to go from a smallish End as a freshman
to a run stopping DT over his years all the while playing with Mazi Smith and all these other talented D-lineman. This can overshadow
your talent. Harbaugh clearly loved the guy and that Defense was elite with him on it. Nearly impossible to run on.

Just what we needed on our team.

(05-02-2024, 03:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: Fletcher Cox only had 7.5 sacks his entire college career.

Good one who went on to have a fantastic career.

(05-04-2024, 11:17 AM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: I like Kris's versatility first and foremost. I like his energy and his attitude a lot too. But he doesn't strike me as someone who is going to be consistently asked to play NT. I see him as a Christian Wilkins type. He can play shade NT, 3T in a 4-3 / 5-2 alignment or play a down DE in 3-4 (Hendrickson and / or Hubbard standing up as "OLBs"). Being a part of a rotation not only keeps our guys fresher, we can also be more versatile with what "looks" we're giving offenses.

I like the Christian Wilkins comparison who lots of us wanted in FA and just got a monster contract. These versatile DT's are very 
valuable. Will be interesting seeing how Lou uses the Defense this year, I expect the Mad Scientist to be back with all these players
and it should really confuse Offenses. Good move bringing in smart vets in Vonn Bell, Geno Stone and Sheldon Rankins.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(05-02-2024, 03:24 PM)Whatever Wrote: Don't get me wrong, I don't think Jenkins is ever going to be an elite pass rusher.  I mean, elite pass rushers at DT are very difficult to find.  

That said, I think he can be a solid 3 down player and a steady 4-6 sack guy.

Consisten push is really important as well. If the QB cannot step up, Hendrickson will feast.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-02-2024, 02:46 PM)CJD Wrote: I hope it translates in the NFL. It didn't in college though. It's hard to expect a player to do something in the NFL that they didn't do in college.

It's great when it happens. But it shouldn't be counted on.

Atkins won with his strength, but he did it in college and in the NFL.

Jenkins sounds to me like a high motor guy who will be a coach's favorite player, but will never actually become as good as you'd hope.

But again, I'm praying that I'm wrong. I want to be wrong. For the team's sake.

Jenkins to me seems like the IDL equivalent of Sam Hubbard.
He might get ya 2-4 sacks a season, but his best attributes will be run defense, effort, and attitude.


It's unfortunate, as I really wanted to see a true UT selected along with a NT. Bengals got the true NT in Jackson, IMO.
I probably would have gone with Michael Hall instead of Jenkins at that pick, as Hall offers more pass rush upside, but I know the Bengals need good run defense against the AFC North, so I get it.

[CJD]

(05-06-2024, 11:23 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Jenkins to me seems like the IDL equivalent of Sam Hubbard.
He might get ya 2-4 sacks a season, but his best attributes will be run defense, effort, and attitude.


It's unfortunate, as I really wanted to see a true UT selected along with a NT. Bengals got the true NT in Jackson, IMO.
I probably would have gone with Michael Hall instead of Jenkins at that pick, as Hall offers more pass rush upside, but I know the Bengals need good run defense against the AFC North, so I get it.

That's actually a really good comparison. Hubbard is a player that you'll always appreciate having on your team, but you won't necessarily be excited about the idea of drafting someone like him. He isn't flashy, but gets the job done against the run etc.

And I agree. I wish we could have gotten a true pass rusher to pair with a NT. Michael Hall was also my preference, especially since he aligns really well with the rest of the draft class's ideology of high risk, high reward players. He was fairly inexperienced relative to his peers, just 714 career snaps, he's young (turns 21 in June), but he has exciting traits and upside, plus some production in his limited time playing as well (15% pass rush win rate, tied for 3rd best in the class behind Murphy and, oddly enough, Leonard Taylor).

In a lot of ways, he's the IDL version of Amarius Mims haha.

Maybe they knew they were planning on taking Burton and All later in the draft and decided they needed at least 1 "safe" pick?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-06-2024, 11:23 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Jenkins to me seems like the IDL equivalent of Sam Hubbard.
He might get ya 2-4 sacks a season, but his best attributes will be run defense, effort, and attitude.


It's unfortunate, as I really wanted to see a true UT selected along with a NT. Bengals got the true NT in Jackson, IMO.
I probably would have gone with Michael Hall instead of Jenkins at that pick, as Hall offers more pass rush upside, but I know the Bengals need good run defense against the AFC North, so I get it.

Makes sense. Nice post Ochocincos, agree, if I have a complaint about the pick it is that Jenkins is not a pass rusher yet like Michael Hall is.

But we needed to stop the run in the AFC North and Jenkins and Jackson should help big time in this area.

[J24]

(05-06-2024, 02:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Makes sense. Nice post Ochocincos, agree, if I have a complaint about the pick it is that Jenkins is not a pass rusher yet like Michael Hall is.

But we needed to stop the run in the AFC North and Jenkins and Jackson should help big time in this area.

You need both- 1 dimensional players(not saying Jenkins is
) gets you killed in this league.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-06-2024, 06:20 PM)J24 Wrote: You need both- 1 dimensional players(not saying Jenkins is
) gets you killed in this league.

For sure, I don't think we can say with any as surety that Kris Jenkins is a 1 dimensional player at this moment.

He has long arms for his size, he has the strength and we know Geno Atkins won with his strength as I said to CJD earlier.

Jenkins has been The Mutant for a reason and has had to adapt his entire career. Hope he can adapt into a fine pass rusher.

He is not your normal D-lineman by any means which is why Lou and the coaches wanted him so bad.