WR Carousel

[J24]

(06-06-2024, 03:01 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Walters came out in support of Iosivas today, saying he's in the mix for starters reps.

I know, coach speak and all that, but let's hope it means something this time.

All signs are pointing to a rotation for the third WR spot between Iosivas, Burton, Jones and Irwin.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-06-2024, 06:36 PM)J24 Wrote: All signs are pointing to a rotation for the third WR spot between Iosivas, Burton, Jones and Irwin.

If it’s Irwin we’re in big trouble. I like the guy well enough, but he’s a 4/5 at best. I will be disappointed if Burton doesn’t win that spot.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2024, 10:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If it’s Irwin we’re in big trouble. I like the guy well enough, but he’s a 4/5 at best. I will be disappointed if Burton doesn’t win that spot.

Agreed w/ Irwin, but can't say I'd be disappointed if Charlie Jones  or Yoshi took it. 

[J24]

(06-06-2024, 10:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If it’s Irwin we’re in big trouble. I like the guy well enough, but he’s a 4/5 at best. I will be disappointed if Burton doesn’t win that spot.

True

[casear2727]

(06-05-2024, 08:27 PM)puddycat Wrote: IMO NFL agents are bad at math. JaMaar Chase is looking at a salary of less than $5M in 2024, followed by option year at $24M. And potentially followed by a tagged year at 30+M (with no signing bonus).  That's 3 years for ~$58M and no signing bonus.  Jefferson will be paid $78M for the same period, mostly due to the $37M signing bonus.

It would make all the sense in the world to give a hometown discount to void the remaining years on the contract and get a contract that gives the player the security of a signing bonus and multiyear contract even if it isn't the "biggest contract ever".  Seems every new contract has to jump aboard the hype train.

Outside of the signing bonus and roster bonuses, extensions begin after the original contract almost every time.  They could negate the 5th year bonus but would not even consider touching this years deal.  

They very much would want to keep both his 4th and 5th year deals in place as Chase will likely be looking for a 3 year deal.  If they replaced the last 2 years of his current deal and he received the same 37M signing bonus as Jefferson, the cap hit on the signing bonus would be prorated for only 3 years and be 12M each year along with a 22M salary or 34M cap hit in total every year for 3 years, except for 2024, which would be higher.

2024. 39M
2025. 34M
2026. 34M 

If they do not void the last 2 years of his current, the signing bonus proration would only be 7m for the next 5 years and his cap hits would be:

2024. 13M
2025. 28M
2026. 29M
2027. 29M
2028. 29M

Not to mention we have him for 5 years instead of 3.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-06-2024, 10:00 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If it’s Irwin we’re in big trouble. I like the guy well enough, but he’s a 4/5 at best. I will be disappointed if Burton doesn’t win that spot.

Yeah, Burton should win the #3 spot easily IMO.

[Bengalsz06]

I don't know why you guys don't like Irwin
Irwin is the only True slot in the group. Sizzle is slot body size but had all his production out side in one year and was hurt most of last year and everyone else spent most of there time in college on the outside
Irwin had 79% target to catch percentage last year the best on the team.
I know you say he is not a great athlete I don't think that is true but even if it is slot is about being crafty and catching the ball
And that is Irwin's specialty.

[Sled21]

(06-06-2024, 06:36 PM)J24 Wrote: All signs are pointing to a rotation for the third WR spot between Iosivas, Burton, Jones and Irwin.

That's a pretty darn good lineup to me....

[Sled21]

(06-07-2024, 03:00 PM)Bengalsz06 Wrote: I don't know why you guys don't like Irwin
Irwin is the only True slot in the group. Sizzle is slot body size but had all his production out side in one year and was hurt most of last year and everyone else spent most of there time in college on the outside
Irwin had 79% target to catch percentage last year the best on the team.
I know you say he is not a great athlete I don't think that is true but even if it is slot is about being crafty and catching the ball
And that is Irwin's specialty.

People don't like Irwin for the same reasons they didn't like Alex Erickson. They are possession receivers that will make the catch, but can't really burn the YAC numbers up. But moving the chains on contested passes if important too, and Irwin has hands like glue.

[samhain]

It's not the worst idea. We're all somewhat emotionally attached to Chase and to Tee to a lesser extent. They were part of what brought this team out of the toilet and into contention. A front office can't think like we do as fans.

Youth football is currently designed to crank out pass catchers. My kid is 11. He plays in 2 flag leagues and 1 tackle. Most of the year those kids are just working on routes and conditioning. There are also a lot of 7 on 7 leagues that are basically designed to develop qbs and receivers exclusively.

Look around the league. Have we ever seen this many "elite" receivers at a time? We have 5 or 6 actual elite guys (Hill, Chase, Jefferson, Brown, possibly Adams) then you have a bunch of guys in the very good tier wanting to be paid like the top 5. This list might be 15-20 players long depending on how you look at it.

Look at every single draft. It's almost guaranteed that 5 wrs are going in round 1 and hitting the ground running. The you get the Nacuas and the Dells that go in middle rounds that perform at a very high level.

The supply is fat right now at that position. It's likely to only get fatter with the changes and re-alignment in college. I have no idea when, but the contract inflation at this position is going to bust. Teams aren't going to keep shelling out that kind of money when they can get controllable rookies for a fraction of that.

The question for the Bengals is whether or not they want to be on the hook for a 35k per year wr if and when the bottom drops out.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-07-2024, 03:00 PM)Bengalsz06 Wrote: I don't know why you guys don't like Irwin
Irwin is the only True slot in the group. Sizzle is slot body size but had all his production out side in one year and was hurt most of last year and everyone else spent most of there time in college on the outside
Irwin had 79% target to catch percentage last year the best on the team.
I know you say he is not a great athlete I don't think that is true but even if it is slot is about being crafty and catching the ball
And that is Irwin's specialty.

Even Nicomo said he likes Irwin well enough lol

We all like Trenton Irwin, very good #4 WR, but Jermaine Burton is extremely explosive and can play on the outside and Chase can play in
the Slot where he is a mismatch against any Defense. We all just want the best WR's on the field and Burton can be a #1 in the NFL with his
talent. Irwin is not even close to this talented. Dude is solid though, good player.

[Bengalsz06]

So you want to play our $35,000,000 a year #1 in the slot and play an unproven rookie outside

[casear2727]

(06-07-2024, 03:44 PM)Bengalsz06 Wrote: So you want to play our $35,000,000 a year #1 in the slot and play an unproven rookie outside

Why not?   Chase could be so much more effective in the slot.  

Kupp won a Triple Crown in the slot.  Tyreek Hill does all of his damage from the slot. 

The slot doesn't have to be a possession receiver, in fact it is the most deadly WR position because the best defenders & athletes on defense are NOT guarding the slot. 

[Bengalsz06]

I love the idea of moving Chase around but i hat the idea of sending him on crossing routes that he might get smoked on a regular shift. I also think the slot blocks a lot more then a wide out and bigger linebackers not that chase cant do it but why.
I Love it when Burrows runs the ball but not all the time.
So yes rotate chase but no have an 3rd round rookie in the most important spot

[Joelist]

(06-07-2024, 03:52 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Why not?   Chase could be so much more effective in the slot.  

Kupp won a Triple Crown in the slot.  Tyreek Hill does all of his damage from the slot. 

The slot doesn't have to be a possession receiver, in fact it is the most deadly WR position because the best defenders & athletes on defense are NOT guarding the slot. 

There is logic to it. You're putting Burton in a spot where his physical traits give him an edge and likewise Chase in a spot where his plus abilities give him a large edge. And it isn't doing it every down but as part of the offense becoming less predictable. 

[J24]

(06-07-2024, 03:00 PM)Sled21 Wrote: That's a pretty darn good lineup to me....

Agreed!

[J24]

(06-07-2024, 03:52 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Why not?   Chase could be so much more effective in the slot.  

Kupp won a Triple Crown in the slot.  Tyreek Hill does all of his damage from the slot. 

The slot doesn't have to be a possession receiver, in fact it is the most deadly WR position because the best defenders & athletes on defense are NOT guarding the slot. 

If Chase plays the Slot then he is getting 2,000 yards this season. 

Cedee Lamb got 1,700 yards last season as a primary Slot WR this past season  as well.

[casear2727]

(06-07-2024, 04:10 PM)Bengalsz06 Wrote: I love the idea of moving Chase around but i hat the idea of sending him on crossing routes that he might get smoked on a regular shift. I also think the slot blocks a lot more then a wide out and bigger linebackers not that chase cant do it but why.
I Love it when Burrows runs the ball but not all the time.
So yes rotate chase but no have an 3rd round rookie in the most important spot

Im not sure that the outside is the most important spot?   Having a great slot like Chase puts a ton of pressure on the defense

[Bengalsz06]

It also lets other team bring everyone in tight without a deep threat and if you think Burton is as good as Chase then you are right but give me a break He is a third round pick That could be a problem with ok # in collage. no history with Joe like chase. He wont know the plays It just seem way to risky when I want to Win a Superbowl. If he proves he is great and i'm not talking pre-season in real games and I have never seen this staff Make that kind of decision on i Hope he is good. and if you were going to do that Why not Yoshi at least he knows the plays and Joe likes him

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-07-2024, 03:44 PM)Bengalsz06 Wrote: So you want to play our $35,000,000 a year #1 in the slot and play an unproven rookie outside

You evidently didn't watch the Chiefs game where Ja'Marr just tore them a new one out of the Slot which was his best game ever in the NFL
and you evidently didn't watch any of Jermaine's film. Chase is valuable wherever you put him and in the Slot he could be the best ever at
the position and completely obliterate Defenses.

Burton has great hands, great quicks and speed and is great on the sideline in getting his feet down.

Burton is another level beyond Irwin, just a fact. Chase was an unproven rookie at one time, Tee was an unproven rookie etc.

(06-07-2024, 04:10 PM)Bengalsz06 Wrote: I love the idea of moving Chase around but i hat the idea of sending him on crossing routes that he might get smoked on a regular shift. I also think the slot blocks a lot more then a wide out and bigger linebackers not that chase cant do it but why.
I Love it when Burrows runs the ball but not all the time.
So yes rotate chase but no have an 3rd round rookie in the most important spot

Chase would be the toughest Slot Receiver in the league, he isn't scared of getting hit and is a natural at avoiding tackles in the middle of 
the field. Chase is our best blocking WR. Rotating Chase is only a good thing, just because he would play in the Slot a ton more doesn't 
mean he wouldn't play outside too. Don't understand you saying outside WR is the most important spot either with what Casear said about
Tyreek Hill and Cooper Kupp.