Early Season Burrow

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-12-2024, 01:04 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Going with a theme I saw earlier..... can't we just blame Taylor for all of this? It's like some people are bigger fans of the QB than the team. It's weird.

I still think Taylor is miles behind some of the better offensive coaches (Reid, Shanahan, McDaniel, McVay, etc), but Burrow was a way bigger reason they lost that game than the play calling was. We could have won with even slightly better QB play.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2024, 01:08 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I still think Taylor is miles behind some of the better offensive coaches (Reid, Shanahan, McDaniel, McVay, etc), but Burrow was a way bigger reason they lost that game than the play calling was. We could have won with even slightly better QB play.

You'll get no argument he's not in their tier....miles behind, maybe not, but at least several meters, LoL. Joe has just struggled early on and this team is literally built FOR him. Was it five turnovers against Pitt? Bad Andy level in Cleveland last year, then the mental lapses Sunday. I'm not saying there aren't reasons for it, I'm just saying it's all facts. Now if they had fallen completely flat on their face with Browning last year, I might be more inclined to agree about miles behind....but they didn't. When Joe is mentally sharp, there aren't many, if any, better. The offense is predicated on that. He's not LaMarr, he can't just take off and run all of the time (he's good when he does because he chooses the right moment), he's not got the arm of Aaron Rodgers, or the off script athletic ability of Mahommes.... he's got to rely on his smarts, timing, and anticipation. He's also "slippery" in the pocket. I kind of feel like they built their scheme and call plays based on that. The Bengals also have an issue with players not named Ja'Marr Chase being able to make people miss or shake tackles after making short catches. Zac does drive me crazy with his trick plays at the worst possible times....and sometimes calling plays that take too long to develop when they need short yardage to convert a third or fourth. 

I think those two fumbles were absolutely brutal. You lose a TD on one, and they get points. Then you have a guy fumble a punt inside the opponent's red zone. To me, that killed them. That said, if Joe was Joe, he likely overcomes that. 

[No-huddle Joe]

(09-12-2024, 01:08 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:
I still think Taylor is miles behind some of the better offensive coaches (Reid, Shanahan, McDaniel, McVay, etc), but Burrow was a way bigger reason they lost that game than the play calling was. We could have won with even slightly better QB play.

Even as bad as Burrow played, if Hudson doesn't fumble, or Chuck Fizzle doesn't fumble, the outcome was probably different, and we are all happy and excited for the Chiefs game, and more than likely, not saying a whole lot about how Burrow played.  Its funny, usually one or two plays in an entire game, change the outcome.   I still wonder if it all stems from not enough pre-season time for all the starters.    On to next week....

[reuben.ahmed]

how is chuck fizzle gonna get a job as a WR if he fumbles the ball, damn, mistakes happen but not like that. where is the accountability for hudson and fizzle.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-12-2024, 07:09 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: how is chuck fizzle gonna get a job as a WR if he fumbles the ball, damn, mistakes happen but not like that. where is the accountability for hudson and fizzle.

so bench people for a turnover ?  it is the 1st game of year, one mistake does not mean benching players, accountability is normally when you continue to play poor and make mistakes.  Hudson had zero turnovers last year , i don't think he has shown a history of losing the ball.

[ERIC1]

(09-11-2024, 01:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The offense looked bad at the start of last year and the year before too.

That said...when Burrow got drafted here, a lot of the experts said the Bengals would ruin him. I'm not going to say it happened. And maybe this last injury was more fluke than negligence...but, I don't think he's many more injuries away from having a shorter career peak.

Maybe his playing style is part of the issue? Maybe it's the offensive lines? Maybe it's calling too many passes? Maybe it's just fluke injuries.

lol@ Bengals ruining him..he has been injury prone since his days @ Ohio State

[ERIC1]

(09-12-2024, 12:24 AM)Joelist Wrote: Burrow had no physical problems. It was exactly as he described - his internal clock was/is off. And in a timing pass offense that is a big problem. Hope he has it fixed by the KC game.

you have no idea if he is having physical issues or not

[XenoMorph]

He really just hasnt been the same the last 2 seasons (season plus 1 game) for whatever reasons that may be.  Hopefully he can get back to the Form the Bengals paid Top dollar for

[THE PISTONS]

(09-12-2024, 09:42 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: lol@ Bengals ruining him..he has been injury prone since his days @ Ohio State

The Bengals did kind of mismanage the offensive line and call A LOT of pass plays.

Against Washington where he hurt his knee, they had a great pass rush and Zac's play call was to have him drop back and throw nearly every play.

It's just little things like that that add up.

One oddity is that instead of trying to run the ball, even when it's working...the Bengals will throw a bunch of WR screens. Just hand the ball off more.

[*Nately120*]

(09-11-2024, 01:12 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: Well, we had 'Bad Andy,' so why not 'Early-season Joe?'  

Short answer, because Andy Dalton was taken at #35 overall with our second pick of the draft and Joe Burrow was taken #1 overall and we likely turned down the chance to get 2+ 1st round picks if we were willing to take the second QB off the board instead of him.

I'm glad we have Burrow and all but even jokingly comparing him to Dalton isn't grand.

[spidey]

(09-12-2024, 09:44 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: you have no idea if he is having physical issues or not

Neither do you so all we have is what is coming out Burrow's mouth in which he says that his wrist feels better every week.  He stated why he is working his wrist out on the sidelines which is what he did for his knee when he came back from that injury.  He said that he rushed some passes and that he needs to get that fixed.    There wasn't a trainer attending him or his wrist during the game so I'm going to take Burrow's word on what went wrong this past Sunday and believe that he will get it fixed.  


I am laughing my ass off on the over analyzing that everyone is having on this wrist.  OMG did you see how he picked up that water bottle.  He picked it up by the top of the bottle and used his left hand to adjust the bottle in his right hand.  His playing days are over   LOL.

[RegularGuy22]

I also read that he is brushing his teeth left handed now because of soreness.....

[*Awful Llama*]

(09-12-2024, 10:23 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Short answer, because Andy Dalton was taken at #35 overall with our second pick of the draft and Joe Burrow was taken #1 overall and we likely turned down the chance to get 2+ 1st round picks if we were willing to take the second QB off the board instead of him.

I'm glad we have Burrow and all but even jokingly comparing him to Dalton isn't grand.

It would be a comparison in that they would each have a nickname, not as a comparison of talents.  The implication is that Joe is a world-beater but he has a hard time getting started each season, which I think is fair enough at this point.  Once he does, though, look out!  On the other hand, Andy could never escape Bad Andy.  It was a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde situation, and we'd start a game wondering if Hyde was going to show up.  If it was a playoff game there was a good chance you'd see him.  Or, maybe we should have called that playoff guy 'Mediocre Andy.'  But, I digress.  The point is, the only comparison was in having a nickname, not in an assessment of abilities or ceilings.  Clearly Joe was superior in both regards.  

[Essex Johnson]

(09-12-2024, 09:44 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: you have no idea if he is having physical issues or not

Well I would say we have a better idea that any issues is limited, he worked all preseason, throw every type of passes, worked multiple days at times and has been cleared to play... so yes we have a pretty good idea that any issue is very limited (which we don;t know if he as something small going on)

[ERIC1]

(09-11-2024, 05:25 PM)wanga Wrote: This 

they get plenty of repetition @ game  speed in practice..the only thing they ease off of is tackling

[reuben.ahmed]

(09-12-2024, 08:00 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: so bench people for a turnover ?  it is the 1st game of year, one mistake does not mean benching players, accountability is normally when you continue to play poor and make mistakes.  Hudson had zero turnovers last year , i don't think he has shown a history of losing the ball.

But he now has a history of being an idiot.

Yeah, when people make a mistake at work, and especially when they don't own up to it - you have an accountability problem.

Hudson's reasoning for holding ball out was super stupid, he should have said "I made a dumb mistake". He got defensive about it == no accountability.

You have no reaction to someone doing something "bad", expect it to happen again.

We're here to win football games and a superbowl, not be nice. Zac is nice.

I agree, if you do something wrong twice, we've got a problem.

Accountability is maybe a primary reason for success or not, people make mistakes, but when they are not accountable == no improvement.

Smart people make mistakes, Tanner Hudson is dumb.

Tell me Belichick is patting him on the back and saying "You'll get em next time, man." All's good if Hudson took accountability. 

[ERIC1]

(09-12-2024, 10:54 AM)spidey Wrote: Neither do you so all we have is what is coming out Burrow's mouth in which he says that his wrist feels better every week.  He stated why he is working his wrist out on the sidelines which is what he did for his knee when he came back from that injury.  He said that he rushed some passes and that he needs to get that fixed.    There wasn't a trainer attending him or his wrist during the game so I'm going to take Burrow's word on what went wrong this past Sunday and believe that he will get it fixed.  


I am laughing my ass off on the over analyzing that everyone is having on this wrist.  OMG did you see how he picked up that water bottle.  He picked it up by the top of the bottle and used his left hand to adjust the bottle in his right hand.  His playing days are over   LOL.

players lie about the extent of their injuries as do their coaches...at this point in time..Burrow is not even close to what he was a couple of years ago..But I hope you are correct and I am wrong

[ERIC1]

(09-12-2024, 12:25 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well I would say we have a better idea that any issues is limited, he worked all preseason, throw every type of passes, worked multiple days at times and has been cleared to play... so yes we have a pretty good idea that any issue is very limited (which we don;t know if he as something small going on)

 Burrow  looked like an average pedestrian quarterback last week,,maybe the magic will return..I hope so ..but maybe not

[3wt]

(09-11-2024, 01:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Didn't even look that way. Dumped it down. Pockets were as clean as they get.

Now maybe all the sacks and injuries he's accumulated are building up like David Carr. I don't know.

It feels like early season he doesn't process stuff well. Then after several games, he's an elite processor.

That's my concern

[3wt]

(09-12-2024, 12:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: Right ...it all relies on timing and anticipation. I don't understand how people don't see this. When he's on, it's a masterpiece, when he's off even a little, it can go off the rails quickly.

Didn't think of this angle.   So if he's a little sped up it may not be just because he's afraid he's going to get hit, but because his timing's off he's afraid to throw a pick.