I know a couple posters will be really upset to see this...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-10-2024, 02:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Dalton has been gone since 2020..... Burrow is the #1 QB in the league in right now, but you go ahead and do you....

It’s the same with old #19. A couple of these die hard members of the Dalton Gang felt like he was unfairly criticized, so they’re completely extreme with their takes on Burrow. Even to the point of making themselves look like clowns.

[jj22]

(10-10-2024, 02:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You know, when you have to keep changing definitions of words to make a point, then maybe you should consider that your point is wrong.

I just clarified my point. The video shared tells the story. An unforced error is an error even if it was "caused". There's a difference and it's a figurative statement. A figure of speech. There's no changing of a definition. 

[jj22]

(10-10-2024, 02:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s the same with old #19. A couple of these die hard members of the Dalton Gang felt like he was unfairly criticized, so they’re completely extreme with their takes on Burrow. Even to the point of making themselves look like clowns.

Yet neither one of you would be, or are saying Dalton's play would be considered clutch if that was him... That's all that matters. Everything else is just spin.

[casear2727]

(10-10-2024, 02:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not impressed by any of this. You can be whoever you want to be on a internet message board. If you had it like that you certainly wouldn't be on here all day everyday with us common folk. 

People who have to keep telling you how smart they are..... Well folks know the rest. 

And sure I've dm'd you. I have most of my conversations on here in dm's with people who aren't willing to face the heat but agree and understand my points. Why you think I'm so "confident in being right" or whatever you stated. 

And your obsession with bringing up Essex who likely doesn't pay your superiority complex no attention either is lame, cringe, and creepy. 

You think that because I have some connections with the Bengals and that my son is friends with some players that I wouldnt be on this message board?  Are you 12?

[*PhilHos*]

(10-10-2024, 01:49 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yea yea yea. Call me what you want. You always calling somebody something. 

Officially a sack yes cause that attempted scramble didn't even make it back to the LOS, and he should have just went down in stead of fighting for that .5 yard. If it was Dalton..... 

But here we are, arguing about a QB fumble td that lost the game in a discussion about the QB being clutch. 

Are you trying to help my argument?

That fumble return for a TD didn't lose the game. If you're going to cite 1 play as the reason for the loss, then the penatly on 4th and looooooooooooong on the rookie to set up the Chiefs game winner was the play that lost the game.

[casear2727]

(10-10-2024, 02:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: An unforced error is an error even if it was "caused". 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-10-2024, 02:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: I have most of my conversations on here in dm's with people who aren't willing to face the heat but agree and understand my points. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-10-2024, 02:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s the same with old #19. A couple of these die hard members of the Dalton Gang felt like he was unfairly criticized, so they’re completely extreme with their takes on Burrow. Even to the point of making themselves look like clowns.

I was one of the leaders of Dalton's Defenders back in the day, but I don't understand how you can think highly of Dalton while also thinking poorly of Burrow. Burrow is just the better QB. Period. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-10-2024, 02:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: I just clarified my point. The video shared tells the story. An unforced error is an error even if it was "caused". There's a difference and it's a figurative statement. A figure of speech. There's no changing of a definition. 

No, an 'unforced error' is NOT an error even it it was 'caused'. If there was a cause for the error then BY DEFINITION it is not unforced. It is also not a "figurative statement" or a "figure of speech". It's wrong. You are using the word wrong. You are using the wrong definition. You are using the word incorrectly. And when you do so, it hurts your point, especially when you don't admit you're wrong and try to mental gymnastic your way into being right.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-10-2024, 02:22 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yet neither one of you would be, or are saying Dalton's play would be considered clutch if that was him... That's all that matters. Everything else is just spin.

I would. I routinely pointed out that Dalton was among the league leaders in game tying/winning drives while the starter for the Bengals. 

And, here I am, unexpectedly having to defend Burrow.

[casear2727]

(10-10-2024, 02:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: I just clarified my point. The video shared tells the story. An unforced error is an error even if it was "caused". There's a difference and it's a figurative statement. A figure of speech. There's no changing of a definition. 

(10-10-2024, 02:43 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, an 'unforced error' is NOT an error even it it was 'caused'. If there was a cause for the error then BY DEFINITION it is not unforced. It is also not a "figurative statement" or a "figure of speech". It's wrong. You are using the word wrong. You are using the wrong definition. You are using the word incorrectly. And when you do so, it hurts your point, especially when you don't admit you're wrong and try to mental gymnastic your way into being right.

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-10-2024, 02:19 PM)jj22 Wrote: I just clarified my point. The video shared tells the story. An unforced error is an error even if it was "caused". There's a difference and it's a figurative statement. A figure of speech. There's no changing of a definition. 

I hope you don't really mean any of this. 

[jj22]

(10-10-2024, 02:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That fumble return for a TD didn't lose the game. If you're going to cite 1 play as the reason for the loss, then the penatly on 4th and looooooooooooong on the rookie to set up the Chiefs game winner was the play that lost the game.

What would have been the score if that fumble returned for a td didn't take place that last drive on 4th and 16? Just curious. 

Everyone, literally everyone watching says that was the game changing play. 

[jj22]

(10-10-2024, 02:43 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, an 'unforced error' is NOT an error even it it was 'caused'. If there was a cause for the error then BY DEFINITION it is not unforced. It is also not a "figurative statement" or a "figure of speech". It's wrong. You are using the word wrong. You are using the wrong definition. You are using the word incorrectly. And when you do so, it hurts your point, especially when you don't admit you're wrong and try to mental gymnastic your way into being right.

The saying is about putting yourself unnecessarily in a position for something to occur. Not that it was an error or not. Forced or unforced. The point. Burrow was doing too much. Didn't you read the football for dummies book. Live to fight another play. Page 106.

"Unforced errors" happen all the time in football when a player makes a dumb play. Doesn't mean it wasn't caused by an outside force. This isn't rocket science. No need to be a genius. 

[KillerGoose]

(10-10-2024, 03:24 PM)jj22 Wrote: What would have been the score if that fumble returned for a td didn't take place that last drive on 4th and 16? Just curious. 

Everyone, literally everyone watching says that was the game changing play. 

Realistically, we have no way of knowing. You're making the assumption that the game would have played out the same exact way. The final portion of the game would have played out differently. If the fumble doesn't happen, KC gets the ball on a punt. Maybe they score, maybe they don't. Maybe there's a turnover somewhere. We can't change something from the past and then just assume everything plays out in the same exact manner. Chaos theory, butterfly effect, all that fun stuff. 

[SunsetBengal]

(10-10-2024, 02:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good Andy, was never as good as Joe Burrow has been this season and I defended Andy a ton back in the day.

Burrow is the opposite of Dalton, he is clutch in the biggest moments. Dalton never was clutch in the biggest moments.

Wouldn't you just love to see Joe Burrow leading a Jay Gruden Coordinated Offense? My golly, they'd be challenging the all time points records with the QB and weapons that this team currently has.

[jj22]

(10-10-2024, 02:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I hope you don't really mean any of this. 

I'm just going by the live to play another down found in the football for dummies book. Sounds like Caesar needs to share with all.

[jj22]

(10-10-2024, 02:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good Andy, was never as good as Joe Burrow has been this season and I defended Andy a ton back in the day.

Dalton was in the MVP conversation going into week 6 of 2015. Burrow is not. 

But I agree Burrow is having the better season. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-10-2024, 03:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wouldn't you just love to see Joe Burrow leading a Jay Gruden Coordinated Offense? My golly, they'd be challenging the all time points records with the QB and weapons that this team currently has.

Oh yeah, it would be legend.

(10-10-2024, 03:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: Dalton was in the MVP conversation going into week 6 of 2015. Burrow is not. 

But I agree Burrow is having the better season. 

And the only reason Burrow is not in the MVP conversation is because of the bad Defense, missed FG's and extra points.

[KillerGoose]

(10-10-2024, 03:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: Dalton was in the MVP conversation going into week 6 of 2015. Burrow is not. 

But I agree Burrow is having the better season. 

Well...kind of, and yes, Burrow is...kind of. This 2015 Dalton line has almost grown into a myth at this point. Dalton was never a serious MVP contender but he was listed in some conversations. Here is a link talking about Dalton being a top three candidate and was given 18/1 odds by Bovada to bring home the hardware. In American odds, that is +1800. As it stands currently, Burrow has +2200 odds, or 22/1 odds. These are giving you roughly the same probability of winning the award. At +1800, the implied probability is 5.5% that Dalton was going to win. At +2200, the implied probability for Burrow is 4.3%. It's a negligible difference. Dalton was never seriously in the conversation and Burrow currently isn't, either.