Are Rankins and Stone the worst FA haul of all time seeing the money we gave them?

[*Synric*]

(11-13-2024, 10:28 AM)ochocincos Wrote: It should be on the table, for sure.

Only $1.5 mill in dead cap for Stone after this season, freeing up $6.5 mill in cap.
Only $2 mill in dead cap for Rankins after this season, freeing up $10.5 mill in cap.

If you told me Bengals could get back an extra $17 mill in cap and put toward 1-2 new dudes, I'd say 100% do it.

Add Both Safety spots to the List.

WR2&3, All 3 IOL, DT, Outside CB, Slot CB, RB, TE (again), Edge (possibly), Backup OT/G (important).

[Bengalbug]

(11-13-2024, 10:09 AM)CJD Wrote: Can you believe we passed on resigning Reader (2 years, 22 million with Detroit), someone we knew was good in our defense, to sign Rankins (2 years, 24.5 million with us), who was an average player when he wasn't playing the Bengals?

In 116 career games, Sheldon has 30.5 sacks. A little over 1/4 a sack per game.

Against the Bengals, in 4 games, he has 6 sacks. 1.5 sacks per game.

It almost defies belief that they would make such a bad "swap."

Rankins has not been a good ROI, but reader is having his worst year since 2020. Look at the Lions Rushing YPG last year (88.8, 2nd the NFL) and then this year (100.8, 6th in the NFL). The bengals last year (126.2) vs this year (127.3).

I’m not sure that it would have had that much of an impact, objectively.

In fact, the bengals have been (arguably) ok at stopping running backs, only 3 over 100 yards on the season (Stevenson, Barkley, and Hubbard). The bengals have faced the top 3 rush yards leaders a total of 4x (Barkley, Hubbard and Henry). Those 3 have accumulated 2,929 yards across 29 games, good for 101ypg. In those 4 games, those guys are getting 93 YPG against the bengals.

It’s been a lot of mental breakdowns, especially against mobile QBs. QBs have rushed for over 325 yards against the bengals (25% of the team total).

Notable rushing QBs. Jayden Daniels, Daniel Jones, Dorian Thompson, Lamar Jackson (2x) and Jalen hurts. Lamar, Daniels and Hurts are rushing QBs1-3 on the season AND Jones isn’t far back at 6th.

Looking ahead, they don’t face as many dual threat Runningback, the biggest threat is Bo Nix.

It’s time for this defense to play fundamental football without the threat of rushing QBs.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-13-2024, 10:40 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: So I am not sure if I believe this or not...

But it REALLY seems like we target FAs that play well against us the season prior. Stone and Rankins best games of the season were against us.

It's just hilarious to me if we base our free agent evaluations on that.

With our "scouting department", would you be shocked?

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(11-13-2024, 10:45 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Odom was actually somewhat productive. 

The answer to this question is Antonio Bryant. Dude signed a 4 year 27 million dollar deal and practiced like once I believe. Comedy. 

Odom had that glorious 5 sack day on Aaron (crybaby) Rogers or was that Brett (the criminal) Favre?

[CottonHill]

I told yall in real time and was chastised.

[Bengalion]

Stone had an 85 coverage rating last season, 7th in the NFL. Only 25 years old, also a former team captain. Produced in a good system on a winning team. I don't know why he's playing like crap this year.

[Lucius Cincinnatus]

It was so easy to tell Stone was a 1 year wonder who would be a disappointment. He was a practice squad/back of the roster guy for the majority of his career, got thrust into the starting lineup after 2 of the Ravens safeties got hurt last year, and benefited from several gift interceptions. Our front office operated like an uneducated fan. Saw 7 interceptions and said he must be good! Interceptions are typically hard to replicate year to year, and not all interceptions are created equal. Some are great plays, some are gifts from the QB or WR.

Stone is an OK player to rotate in with a specific role or a depth guy. I can't be convinced otherwise the FO wasn't stupidly blinded by one season of INTs.

[Whatever]

(11-13-2024, 01:39 AM)J24 Wrote: Yep, Bryant is the winner, also Awntan Odom is a good nominee.

At least Odom had the Packers game.  Stone and Rankins haven't even had a game half as good.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Free Money Waynes Ana Antonio Bryant.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-13-2024, 11:57 AM)Synric Wrote: Add Both Safety spots to the List.

WR2&3, All 3 IOL, DT, Outside CB, Slot CB, RB, TE (again), Edge (possibly), Backup OT/G (important).

Yea I get it.
A lot of needs.
Bengals won't be able to adequately address all that in FA, so they'll have to pick and choose.
I think it makes the most sense to try to address the cheaper FA positions with quality guys and try to use high draft picks to get a couple immediate contributors if possible.
We might also have to be ok with a couple starters sticking around as the status quo for a season or so and plan to upgrade next year and/or groom a later draft pick there.

TE and SAF I think are the cheaper spots to try to address via FA, although there are quite a few safeties and TEs I like early in the upcoming draft.

DL will be expensive for a recent proven dude, but they may try to get someone who fans might not be too excited about but could be a sleeper.
One guy that pops into my head is Chase Young.
Dude had fantastic ceiling but he hasn't lived up to that yet. He's still younger though and might serve as a great rotational piece.

I could see a cheaper veteran signed for OT to act as the first backup and maybe draft another on Day 3 to serve as another backup.
IOL I think has the highest likelihood of maintaining the status quo for starters in 2025 with a draft pick to groom as a future starter after departures happen the following offseason.

[coachmcneil71]

(11-13-2024, 12:58 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea I get it.
A lot of needs.
Bengals won't be able to adequately address all that in FA, so they'll have to pick and choose.
I think it makes the most sense to try to address the cheaper FA positions with quality guys and try to use high draft picks to get a couple immediate contributors if possible.
We might also have to be ok with a couple starters sticking around as the status quo for a season or so and plan to upgrade next year and/or groom a later draft pick there.

TE and SAF I think are the cheaper spots to try to address via FA, although there are quite a few safeties and TEs I like early in the upcoming draft.

DL will be expensive for a recent proven dude, but they may try to get someone who fans might not be too excited about but could be a sleeper.
One guy that pops into my head is Chase Young.
Dude had fantastic ceiling but he hasn't lived up to that yet. He's still younger though and might serve as a great rotational piece.

I could see a cheaper veteran signed for OT to act as the first backup and maybe draft another on Day 3 to serve as another backup.
IOL I think has the highest likelihood of maintaining the status quo for starters in 2025 with a draft pick to groom as a future starter after departures happen the following offseason.

Ain''t it a *****! This season is barely half over and here we all are discussing next season. That sux! 

[PDub80]

The Bengals are clearly averse to the old adage: Buy nice, not thrice.

The 1st 3 seasons under ZT seem to be an aberration in the history of the franchise.

[Frank Booth]

(11-13-2024, 01:58 PM)PDub80 Wrote: The Bengals are clearly averse to the old adage: Buy nice, not thrice.

The 1st 3 seasons under ZT seem to be an aberration in the history of the franchise.

even the 2011-2015 dalton era seems like a fluke. Duke got very fortunate with the drafts that fueled the 5 straight playoff appearances. 

I think the carson Palmer era 2003-2010 is what this franchise is

[*ochocincos*]

(11-13-2024, 01:41 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Ain''t it a *****! This season is barely half over and here we all are discussing next season. That sux! 

To be fair, I talk FA/draft year-round 

[PDub80]

(11-13-2024, 02:34 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: even the 2011-2015 dalton era seems like a fluke. Duke got very fortunate with the drafts that fueled the 5 straight playoff appearances. 

I think the carson Palmer era 2003-2010 is what this franchise is

I meant more in the sense of FA acquisitions.

I see where you're coming from, though. I think the current FO is GROSSLY missing competence in key areas.


The are completely inept in the foresight department and are constantly blindsided by the NFL Market Value on players, leaving them unprepared & outgunned.


Not paying chase a few months ago is going to cost them an absolute FORTUNE now. It's like having the chance to buy out the lease on a car where the valuation was done before the car market blew up AND REFUSING TO BUY because you have a few more cheap lease payments left...... ONly to be forced to buy the same car from the dealer at 1.5x the money. It's DUMB business. Flat out DUMB. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-13-2024, 10:40 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: So I am not sure if I believe this or not...

But it REALLY seems like we target FAs that play well against us the season prior. Stone and Rankins best games of the season were against us.

It's just hilarious to me if we base our free agent evaluations on that.

Talk about lazy evaluation. Rankins still hasn't had a bad career so he is the biggest surprise to me but to evaluate a player on just how he 
plays against us is beyond lazy. The good news is maybe we have learned from this and cutting these guys frees up a lot of money and we 
can replace them with someone decent easily, heck I think better players are already on the roster in Kris Jenkins and Jordan Battle/Tycen.

[PDub80]

(11-13-2024, 07:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Talk about lazy evaluation. Rankins still hasn't had a bad career so he is the biggest surprise to me but to evaluate a player on just how he 
plays against us is beyond lazy. The good news is maybe we have learned from this and cutting these guys frees up a lot of money and we 
can replace them with someone decent easily, heck I think better players are already on the roster in Kris Jenkins and Jordan Battle/Tycen.

Ready to puke?

Geno Stone's claim to fame was that he, even though he was a RFA out of college & had to claw his way to being a Ravens backup, once intercepted Burrow 2x.


Like, that's his claim to fame and they thought he was going to be Trey Hendrickson 2.0 on the back end. It's just soooooo lazy and dumb.

[Frank Booth]

(11-13-2024, 07:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Ready to puke?

Geno Stone's claim to fame was that he, even though he was a RFA out of college & had to claw his way to being a Ravens backup, once intercepted Burrow 2x.


Like, that's his claim to fame and they thought he was going to be Trey Hendrickson 2.0 on the back end. It's just soooooo lazy and dumb.

so this front office signed Rankins and Stone based off their success against cincy...

I suddenly feel void of anything

[WeezyBengal]

(11-13-2024, 12:36 PM)Bengalion Wrote: Stone had an 85 coverage rating last season, 7th in the NFL. Only 25 years old, also a former team captain. Produced in a good system on a winning team. I don't know why he's playing like crap this year.

Because he doesn't have an all pro like Kyle Hamilton filling in the gaps. 

[WeezyBengal]

(11-13-2024, 07:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Talk about lazy evaluation. Rankins still hasn't had a bad career so he is the biggest surprise to me but to evaluate a player on just how he 
plays against us is beyond lazy. The good news is maybe we have learned from this and cutting these guys frees up a lot of money and we 
can replace them with someone decent easily, heck I think better players are already on the roster in Kris Jenkins and Jordan Battle/Tycen.

To be clear, I don't think that's like as far as the evaulations go...but it really does feel like we "make note" or put an "astrisk" next to guys that play well against us that we may want to target and evaluate more in free agency. Like those are the guys that stick out to the front office and then we become bias toward them.