A positive - Chase Brown

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-25-2024, 09:49 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well Hudson continues to grade out well on PFF last year amd this year in run blocking, ive not noticed any major issue with him, Hudson still has beem stats when thrust into starting role last yr vs Gesicki, i like Geiski  but he seems to disappear game to game.

Tanner Hudson’s current PFF grade is 59.3

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-25-2024, 10:57 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok so it's about YPC. Got it.
I don't agree necessarily because there will be games where a RB may have under 4.0 YPC due to a good defense and/or may be asked to get used more in the passing game, but to each their own.
I was just curious what you were basing it on.
I base mine more on raw rushing+receiving yards rather than efficiency just running the ball.

If a dude ends up with 1200+ yards from scrimmage but under 4.0 YPC in some games, that's still a RB1 in my eyes.

Just a reminder that Giovani Bernard surpassed the 1200 yard mark twice in his first 3 seasons (in 16 games rather than the 17 of now) and he was most certainly not what folks would consider an RB1.

Darren Sproles surpassed the mark once, too, with only 87 carries that year.
Austin Ekeler broke the 1500 yard mark in a season where he rushed for 557 yards, with just 8.3 carries a game.

Just straight yards from scrimmage on it's own isn't a very good indicator of someone being a RB1 because particularly good pass catching RBs will screw that up something fierce. You need to also factor in both bulk and efficiency.

(Also you have cases like LeGarrette Blount who was just NOT a pass catcher so extremely that he had a season with 299 carries, 1,161 rushing yards, 18 TDs... and didn't reach 1,200 yards from scrimmage because he had a low ypc and nearly zero receiving production.)

[PDub80]

The Bengals OC & O line coach/run game coordinator don't understand how to build or utilize an effective run game. I couldn't care less who the RB is on a team that's ran by 3... THREE ex-QBs who only thinks pass. Why waste even an ounce of time on it?

Mike Brown: QB
Duke Tobin: QB
ZT: QB

The Bengals are QB heavy in management and, thus, only want to throw the football.

Bengals had a badass talent at RB the last 5 seasons and clearly had no F'ing clue how to put that to any kind of use. Why waste a draft pick on another one? They HAD a top RB.

Also, F Chase Brown for fumbling/bumbling away that Ravens game. No difference between him & Jeremy Hill, IMO. He gets very limited touches and his #1 job is to not make a mistake to LOSE the game.... and then he goes out and does exactly that. Brown had 13 carries in the Ravens game he fumbled away.... Hill has 12. I see little to no difference in their idiocy.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-25-2024, 09:49 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well Hudson continues to grade out well on PFF last year amd this year in run blocking, ive not noticed any major issue with him, Hudson still has beem stats when thrust into starting role last yr vs Gesicki, i like Geiski  but he seems to disappear game to game.

The best that I can figure is that when Higgins is out, Gesicki becomes the #2 option. When Higgins is in the game, Gesicki ceases to exist.

[*jason*]

(11-26-2024, 10:54 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The best that I can figure is that when Higgins is out, Gesicki becomes the #2 option. When Higgins is in the game, Gesicki ceases to exist.

That's an accurate assessment. The question is why? Maybe Gesicki can't get open when there are multiple other threats on the field.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-26-2024, 11:07 AM)jason Wrote: That's an accurate assessment. The question is why? Maybe Gesicki can't get open when there are multiple other threats on the field.

My guess is that when Higgins is well and playing, Taylor funnels all of the play calls for 1st and 2nd reads to Chase and Higgins, along with the occasional pass to the RBs. And do to the short length of time that Burrow has to get rid of the ball, he seldom has an opportunity to look for that 3rd and 4th read.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-26-2024, 03:50 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Just a reminder that Giovani Bernard surpassed the 1200 yard mark twice in his first 3 seasons (in 16 games rather than the 17 of now) and he was most certainly not what folks would consider an RB1.

Darren Sproles surpassed the mark once, too, with only 87 carries that year.
Austin Ekeler broke the 1500 yard mark in a season where he rushed for 557 yards, with just 8.3 carries a game.

Just straight yards from scrimmage on it's own isn't a very good indicator of someone being a RB1 because particularly good pass catching RBs will screw that up something fierce. You need to also factor in both bulk and efficiency.

(Also you have cases like LeGarrette Blount who was just NOT a pass catcher so extremely that he had a season with 299 carries, 1,161 rushing yards, 18 TDs... and didn't reach 1,200 yards from scrimmage because he had a low ypc and nearly zero receiving production.)

Y'all are being too critical of a RB1 (which is just a RB getting most touches on team) vs a Top 10-15 RB in the NFL.

Chase Brown is 20th in the NFL in rushing.
He's 22nd in rushing attempts.


League average in YPC is 4.4. Chase is just below that at 4.3.

Do I consider him a Top 10 RB in the NFL?
No.
Do I think the Bengals need a Top 10 RB?
No, given their style of offense.

Brown can be a middle-of-the-pack RB on an elite passing offense and I'm ok with that.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-26-2024, 11:39 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Y'all are being too critical of a RB1 (which is just a RB getting most touches on team) vs a Top 10-15 RB in the NFL.

Dude, I tried to use that logic and you told me it was only 3 weeks of Brown being a RB1 despite Brown getting the majority of the touches (greater than 2-to-1) for 6 weeks.

During those 6 weeks where he's been the RB1 by virtue of the most touches, he's averaging 3.8ypc. That's .6 lower than the league average you just listed, which is a lot.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-26-2024, 11:51 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Dude, I tried to use that logic and you told me it was only 3 weeks of Brown being a RB1 despite Brown getting the majority of the touches (greater than 2-to-1) for 6 weeks.

During those 6 weeks where he's been the RB1 by virtue of the most touches, he's averaging 3.8ypc. That's .6 lower than the league average you just listed, which is a lot.

Let's see how much more his average may drop then the rest of the season.

Joe Mixon's average was 4.1 or lower every season at CIN in the Taylor era, but I still considered him a RB1.
He even had 2 years of sub-4.0.

I'm also trying to be somewhat forgiving too because of the recent better defenses the Bengals have gone against on the ground. PHI, BAL, and LAC are all good against the run.
Bengals have some (what should be) easier opponents in TEN, CLE, and DAL which should help boost that YPC.

Regardless, RB is not something I would personally invest an early draft pick in given other needs elsewhere.
I think Chase Brown is "good enough" for the time being and Bengals should prioritize DL, DB, pass catcher, and OL before adding a high cost/draft pick RB.

[SunsetBengal]

Chase Brown currently 12th in overall success rate. Guess who's not even in the top 27? Some guy that now plays for the Texans..

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/key-stat-shows-how-effective-bengals-running-back-chase-brown-has-been-this-season/ar-AA1uNaq1?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=c3fbc6f3ac06407da2b4c0aa517a6cdc&ei=12

Quote:CINCINNATI — Running back Chase Brown has been a bright spot for the Bengals this season.

The former fifth-round pick has taken the reigns of Cincinnati's backfield in his second year.

Brown has ran for 607 rushing yards (4.3 yards-per-carry) and five touchdowns. He also has 35 receptions for 207 yards and two scores.

The 24-year-old is among the NFL leaders in success rate. Brown is 12th at 52.1%. He's ahead of guys like Devon Achane, Tony Pollard, Breece Hall and Kenneth Walker.

The Bengals' rushing attack has been inconsistent this season, but Brown has been a bright spot. He's on pace to finish with 1,257 yards from scrimmage.

Check out the entire list below:

https://x.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1861042260822872195?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1861042260822872195%7Ctwgr%5E6fd6cc3dbae9fbc5f57e3429cc1f5e0012aaf130%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnfl%2Fbengals%2Fnews%2Fkey-stat-shows-how-effective-bengals-running-back-chase-brown-has-been-this-season-01jdhmch03w9

[Essex Johnson]

(11-26-2024, 02:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Chase Brown currently 12th in overall success rate. Guess who's not even in the top 27? Some guy that now plays for the Texans..

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/key-stat-shows-how-effective-bengals-running-back-chase-brown-has-been-this-season/ar-AA1uNaq1?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=c3fbc6f3ac06407da2b4c0aa517a6cdc&ei=12


https://x.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1861042260822872195?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1861042260822872195%7Ctwgr%5E6fd6cc3dbae9fbc5f57e3429cc1f5e0012aaf130%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnfl%2Fbengals%2Fnews%2Fkey-stat-shows-how-effective-bengals-running-back-chase-brown-has-been-this-season-01jdhmch03w9

Chase i think has done well but has been a bit disappointing in receiving, I think we need to see a bit more over the rest of season to feel good about him being a #1 next year.  As for Joe Mixon, he is having a very good year and Texans have been happy what i have read with his pass blocking and short yardage runs. 

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(11-25-2024, 10:57 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok so it's about YPC. Got it.
I don't agree necessarily because there will be games where a RB may have under 4.0 YPC due to a good defense and/or may be asked to get used more in the passing game, but to each their own.
I was just curious what you were basing it on.
I base mine more on raw rushing+receiving yards rather than efficiency just running the ball.

If a dude ends up with 1200+ yards from scrimmage but under 4.0 YPC in some games, that's still a RB1 in my eyes.

It's more nuanced than any stat really. Tbh I don't think he's an RB1 in the long run based more on the eye test than anything.

I personally am weighting the run stats far more than whether he can be a factor in the pass play. Not saying a pass-catching RB isn't a good thing, but I think we're lacking a reliable 'workhorse' RB more than we are another passing target. We've lacked a serious run game for so long, so in my eyes we ideally have an 'RB1' who can reliably move the ball on the defence (again, to a point, I'm not expecting him to be Henry/Barkley). 

He is 4.3 YPC for 607 yards over the season so far, not bad or great, pretty middling. Probably a little more than we were expecting from him. I think some of that YPC for the season is weighted in those earlier games when he wasn't getting the baulk of the run game, but he certainly impressed in short spells earlier and I'm glad he's been given the shot this year. Deserved for sure.

I just don't see Brown being the guy who will lead the run attack for the next couple of years to come... or if he is, we'll probably have a not-particularly-dangerous run game, like we largely have right now. But I will reiterate, I really like what he's brought to the roster so far and do love the work he puts in on the field. I'd certainly rather we focus on upgrading Zack Moss than Chase Brown at this juncture. 

[kevin]

(11-20-2024, 12:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: While this season has been a major disappointment in many ways, one positive that may come out of it is we may be seeing the new RB1 for the next few years in Chase Brown.
Brown has over 800 yards and 7 total TDs on 175 touches.
Brown has an entire yard per carry higher average than Zack Moss (4.3 to 3.3).

It's very likely with 6 games left that Chase Brown will exceed 1000 yards from scrimmage and even potentially surpass 1200 yards from scrimmage.

Bengals may decide they don't need to address RB early in this upcoming draft now because of the emergence of Chase Brown.

It's a copy cat league.  I like what Detroit is doing.   They have Montgomery as the power back and Gibbs as the smaller but quicker back.  One series they use Montgomery, next series Gibbs, nest series Montgomery, next series Gibbs.  Always the fresh legs in the game.  This wears down Defenses. Both Montgomery and Gibbs put up around 1,000 yards rushing each as Ickey Woods the big back and James Brooks the smaller quicker back. 

So imagine having Chase Brown with a bigger Montgomery type, and running Detroit rotation system.  Suddenly Bengals have a Detroit running game and The O Line looks better.   Going more to a running game cuts down on passes to Chase and others, but the passing game gets better.  The passing game gets better because Burrow doesn't get hit on every play, because the Defense is forced to cover the run more, and that opens up Chase and receives.  

The 1960's dynasty Packers could run and pass. So could 1970's dynasty Steelers. So could 1980's dynasty 49ers.  So could 1990's dynasty Cowboys.  So could Patriots in the 2000's dynasty they had.   It's why teams like Detroit, Philly and Baltimore are going to tough in this years play-offs.   

So I agree Chase Brown is pretty good.  However I would love for Chase Brown to be our Gibbs, and we come up with a Montgomery and steal what is winning for Detroit.  You still have Burrow throwing half of the plays in a game, but now the Defense can't load up and hit Burrow every play because they have to respect and cover the run.  

I do agree, Chase Brown is a key part to this team getting back to the Super Bowl soon with Joe Burrow.  More like the 1988 Bengals or the 2024 Detroit Lions though, as Bengals run game is a beast, and that lets Burrow be even more awesome when Bengals pass. 

I know we got the RB from Indy who is injured, but is he a Montgomery type to go with Chase Brown as a Gibbs type.  We could use a bull moose like Montgomery also.  Detroit offense is very good, and the NFL is a copy cat league.  Bengals have a Gibbs, they need a Montgomery, and Super Bowl here we come with Joe Burrow for passing. 

As Always....GO BENGALS. 

[Sled21]

(11-26-2024, 07:20 PM)kevin Wrote: It's a copy cat league.  I like what Detroit is doing.   They have Montgomery as the power back and Gibbs as the smaller but quicker back.  One series they use Montgomery, next series Gibbs, nest series Montgomery, next series Gibbs.  Always the fresh legs in the game.  This wears down Defenses. Both Montgomery and Gibbs put up around 1,000 yards rushing each as Ickey Woods the big back and James Brooks the smaller quicker back. 

So imagine having Chase Brown with a bigger Montgomery type, and running Detroit rotation system.  Suddenly Bengals have a Detroit running game and The O Line looks better.   Going more to a running game cuts down on passes to Chase and others, but the passing game gets better.  The passing game gets better because Burrow doesn't get hit on every play, because the Defense is forced to cover the run more, and that opens up Chase and receives.  

The 1960's dynasty Packers could run and pass. So could 1970's dynasty Steelers. So could 1980's dynasty 49ers.  So could 1990's dynasty Cowboys.  So could Patriots in the 2000's dynasty they had.   It's why teams like Detroit, Philly and Baltimore are going to tough in this years play-offs.   

So I agree Chase Brown is pretty good.  However I would love for Chase Brown to be our Gibbs, and we come up with a Montgomery and steal what is winning for Detroit.  You still have Burrow throwing half of the plays in a game, but now the Defense can't load up and hit Burrow every play because they have to respect and cover the run.  

I do agree, Chase Brown is a key part to this team getting back to the Super Bowl soon with Joe Burrow.  More like the 1988 Bengals or the 2024 Detroit Lions though, as Bengals run game is a beast, and that lets Burrow be even more awesome when Bengals pass. 

I know we got the RB from Indy who is injured, but is he a Montgomery type to go with Chase Brown as a Gibbs type.  We could use a bull moose like Montgomery also.  Detroit offense is very good, and the NFL is a copy cat league.  Bengals have a Gibbs, they need a Montgomery, and Super Bowl here we come with Joe Burrow for passing. 

As Always....GO BENGALS. 

I assumed that was what they were going to do when they brought in Herbert to replace the injured Moss. One fumble and they seem to have forgotten the picked him up.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-27-2024, 09:16 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I assumed that was what they were going to do when they brought in Herbert to replace the injured Moss. One fumble and they seem to have forgotten the picked him up.

Yea that is strange.
Maybe he needed some extra time picking up the playbook and we'll see him more after the Bye...?

[*jason*]

(11-26-2024, 07:20 PM)kevin Wrote: It's a copy cat league.  I like what Detroit is doing.   They have Montgomery as the power back and Gibbs as the smaller but quicker back.  One series they use Montgomery, next series Gibbs, nest series Montgomery, next series Gibbs.  Always the fresh legs in the game.  This wears down Defenses. Both Montgomery and Gibbs put up around 1,000 yards rushing each as Ickey Woods the big back and James Brooks the smaller quicker back. 

So imagine having Chase Brown with a bigger Montgomery type, and running Detroit rotation system.  Suddenly Bengals have a Detroit running game and The O Line looks better.   Going more to a running game cuts down on passes to Chase and others, but the passing game gets better.  The passing game gets better because Burrow doesn't get hit on every play, because the Defense is forced to cover the run more, and that opens up Chase and receives.  

The 1960's dynasty Packers could run and pass. So could 1970's dynasty Steelers. So could 1980's dynasty 49ers.  So could 1990's dynasty Cowboys.  So could Patriots in the 2000's dynasty they had.   It's why teams like Detroit, Philly and Baltimore are going to tough in this years play-offs.   

So I agree Chase Brown is pretty good.  However I would love for Chase Brown to be our Gibbs, and we come up with a Montgomery and steal what is winning for Detroit.  You still have Burrow throwing half of the plays in a game, but now the Defense can't load up and hit Burrow every play because they have to respect and cover the run.  

I do agree, Chase Brown is a key part to this team getting back to the Super Bowl soon with Joe Burrow.  More like the 1988 Bengals or the 2024 Detroit Lions though, as Bengals run game is a beast, and that lets Burrow be even more awesome when Bengals pass. 

I know we got the RB from Indy who is injured, but is he a Montgomery type to go with Chase Brown as a Gibbs type.  We could use a bull moose like Montgomery also.  Detroit offense is very good, and the NFL is a copy cat league.  Bengals have a Gibbs, they need a Montgomery, and Super Bowl here we come with Joe Burrow for passing. 

As Always....GO BENGALS. 

A couple things... First Detroit's line is far superior to ours so I don't think it's a case of having a thunder and lightning combo will make ours better. Second; Ben Johnson is much better at what he does than Zac, Pitcher, and Lord knows who else when it comes to calling plays and game planning. Third; I really like Chase Brown. He ain't no Gibbs. Maybe a poor man's Jahmyr Gibbs, and right now we're using him like a poor man's McCaffrey. In short... I don't think David Montgomery and Gibbs look like they look in Detroit if they were transplanted to our team. Also keep in mind that Jamal Williams played really well in the role that Montgomery's in before him. It's a system thing.

[Destro]

Did well. Was it 5.6 or 5.8 or something per carry when I last looked.

[Bengalitis]

(11-20-2024, 12:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: While this season has been a major disappointment in many ways, one positive that may come out of it is we may be seeing the new RB1 for the next few years in Chase Brown.
Brown has over 800 yards and 7 total TDs on 175 touches.
Brown has an entire yard per carry higher average than Zack Moss (4.3 to 3.3).

It's very likely with 6 games left that Chase Brown will exceed 1000 yards from scrimmage and even potentially surpass 1200 yards from scrimmage.

Bengals may decide they don't need to address RB early in this upcoming draft now because of the emergence of Chase Brown.

This is easy, we have one of the most talented WRs and QB in the league. Not surprising, usually when the team personnel sucks, the talented ones tend to have amazing years.

[Sled21]

(11-27-2024, 10:38 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea that is strange.
Maybe he needed some extra time picking up the playbook and we'll see him more after the Bye...?

Well, he finally got a couple of runs and did well.