Time to root for losses

[Nepa]

(12-09-2024, 03:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And with an earlier draft pick we could trip and fall into another great talent. If we win out it could really screw this up. Not all Drafts
are like the Chase, Sewell, Pitts Draft where regardless you can get a great player. The difference between picking in the top 10 to 18 
is huge.

I can understand the reasoning behind preferring losses to get a better draft pick. It makes logical sense. It's just seems impossibly hard to watch a game and actively root against the Bengals players. Maybe if one didn't watch the game, and just looked at the result, one can feel happy with a loss. But when watching, its very hard not to cheer on Burrow doing well, and Chase doing well, and Hendrickson getting sacks, etc. It's hard to watch to watch the Bengals players trying to win and root against them. And I don't want to waste a week not watching a game. 

[*Nately120*]

Anything outside of the top 5 probably requires too much effort for our FO to bother to get right. It's why we "win" by having a pick 20 slots higher than the Steelers so we can take John Ross and leave them with scrapheap picks like TJ Watt. Duh.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-09-2024, 03:48 PM)Nepa Wrote: I can understand the reasoning behind preferring losses to get a better draft pick. It makes logical sense. It's just seems impossibly hard to watch a game and actively root against the Bengals players. Maybe if one didn't watch the game, and just looked at the result, one can feel happy with a loss. But when watching, its very hard not to cheer on Burrow doing well, and Chase doing well, and Hendrickson getting sacks, etc. It's hard to watch to watch the Bengals players trying to win and root against them. And I don't want to waste a week not watching a game. 

Yeah, I cannot actively root against our players that is for sure. Just at this point I am okay if we lose unlike when we had a shot at the 
Playoffs. A 2% chance is not at all likely, might as well be looking forward to the Draft and the earlier the pick the better for us next year.

[2MinutesHate]

(12-09-2024, 03:02 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: I’m not sure how getting better players through the draft, which we really rely on. What if we didn’t pick #5 when we took chase. What if we were 6 or 7. What if we were 2 and missed burrow. Higher draft pick is always better, without a doubt. Regardless if you pick a player that busts. Please give me a reason why winning is going to help the team next year? What good did going 9-8 last year do?

Ask Mark Davis what perpetual losing does for a team.  I would say teams are much better off if they win games/lower draft position then if they lose games/higher draft position.  The Patriots (of the 2010's) and modern day Chiefs pretty much have never had a high first round pick, but they had a winning culture.   

Keep losing games and nobody wins.  Not even Burrow with his great stats.  

Turning the 2024 Bengals into an even more embarrassing piece of crap is not the answer to success.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-09-2024, 04:59 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Ask Mark Davis what perpetual losing does for a team.  I would say teams are much better off if they win games/lower draft position then if they lose games/higher draft position.  The Patriots (of the 2010's) and modern day Chiefs pretty much have never had a high first round pick, but they had a winning culture.   

Keep losing games and nobody wins.  Not even Burrow with his great stats.  

Turning the 2024 Bengals into an even more embarrassing piece of crap is not the answer to success.

The old Patriots and the modern day Chiefs knew and know how to Draft well with their FO is the difference. If we get an earlier pick than 
18 it is much more likely we hit on the pick rather than at 18. Mims was a great pick but as we have seen, he is the outlier with Murphy the 
year before. I understand what you are saying but picking early can get us a much better talent then later, just a fact.

We aren't going to the Playoffs this season unless numerous miracles happen, what is the point in winning? To keep Lou around?

[*ochocincos*]

Any loss by Bengals or win by DEN and LAC will knock the Bengals out of the playoffs.
We also gotta hope more no more than 2 wins for each of IND and MIA.
IND has to beat DEN, so just 1 more win for them aside from that.

[sandwedge]

(12-09-2024, 04:59 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Ask Mark Davis what perpetual losing does for a team.  I would say teams are much better off if they win games/lower draft position then if they lose games/higher draft position.  The Patriots (of the 2010's) and modern day Chiefs pretty much have never had a high first round pick, but they had a winning culture.   

Keep losing games and nobody wins.  Not even Burrow with his great stats.  

Turning the 2024 Bengals into an even more embarrassing piece of crap is not the answer to success.

Excellent post! 

[sandwedge]

(12-09-2024, 05:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The old Patriots and the modern day Chiefs knew and know how to Draft well with their FO is the difference. If we get an earlier pick than 
18 it is much more likely we hit on the pick rather than at 18. Mims was a great pick but as we have seen, he is the outlier with Murphy the 
year before. I understand what you are saying but picking early can get us a much better talent then later, just a fact.

We aren't going to the Playoffs this season unless numerous miracles happen, what is the point in winning? To keep Lou around?

Lou's time has come and gone. 

These players aren't going to quit and rollover for a better draft position. Just give up on their individual goals? Not to mention, quite a few players will be playing for their careers. They are not going to put half ass play on tape. 2MinutesHate, hit it on the head, it just breeds a losing culture where players will want out of their contracts, or not resign here

[Essex Johnson]

(12-02-2024, 12:42 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: It’s a sad day for the 2024 bengals fandom. The season is over, although I said it was over after week 1 loss. But I was wrong. I thought that loss meant we weren’t a Super Bowl team. I didn’t think we weren’t even a .500 or playoff team. Been a rough season. At this point, as fans, we need to root for losses. What good does wins do us? We were in the same position last year, and many including myself, wished to lose out to get higher draft picks. Many on here wanted to win to “gain momentum”. Where was that momentum? I guess it doesn’t work that way if you lack talent. How are the bengals going to add talent? In the way they know best, the draft. So besides making yourself feel good with some pointless wins, what good does it do the team?

The bengals aren’t going to tank on purpose or lose on purpose. And I don’t expect them to. But they can start benching some starters who don’t deserve to be here next year. I’d start with Hubbard, Bell, Stone, Volson, Kappa, Pratt, BJ Hill, Rankins. Play Tee Higgins less,  He’s gone next year anyways.

If any game gets out of hand, bench Burrow and chase. No sense in getting them injured.

Well forget about even trying to get top tier FAs if we go 5-12 or 6-11... i think Quality FA is more important at this time in Burrows career than a high draft pick

[Nepa]

(12-10-2024, 01:30 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well forget about even trying to get top tier FAs if we go 5-12 or 6-11... i think Quality FA is more important at this time in Burrows career than a high draft pick

Good point. As well as the point above about the importance to have a winning culture. Tomlin has never had a losing season with Pittsburgh, so you know they are not drafting early, but here they are this year with the second best record in the AFC. The Chiefs have been drafting late every year and competing for Super Bowls each year. 

In my 55+ years as a Bengals fan, the Bengals have often had what one might consider good draft position, and yet only have had 4 seasons in which they won playoff games. So, there must be something other than good draft position to build a winning team and winning culture.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-10-2024, 01:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Lou's time has come and gone. 

These players aren't going to quit and rollover for a better draft position. Just give up on their individual goals? Not to mention, quite a few players will be playing for their careers. They are not going to put half ass play on tape. 2MinutesHate, hit it on the head, it just breeds a losing culture where players will want out of their contracts, or not resign here

Cannot disagree. Wouldn't surprise me if we won out now. I just wish we started this win streak against the stealers instead of a week 
too late most likely. The team played a good game last night in all 3 phases honestly, even Defense wasn't terrible last night against a 
talented Cowboys team.


The effort last night was there except on the Lamb TD where Hilton broke the wrong way and got beat badly. Still, he played hard after
and made some nice plays. Really liked what I saw from DJ Ivey last night and Ossai.

(12-10-2024, 01:30 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well forget about even trying to get top tier FAs if we go 5-12 or 6-11... i think Quality FA is more important at this time in Burrows career than a high draft pick

Cannot disagree with this either. Sure hope we have enough money to sign quality FA after Ja'Marr's contract gets done.

We will need at least a couple quality FA's preferably in the trenches. A Guard and a pass rusher at the very least.

(12-10-2024, 01:44 PM)Nepa Wrote: Good point. As well as the point above about the importance to have a winning culture. Tomlin has never had a losing season with Pittsburgh, so you know they are not drafting early, but here they are this year with the second best record in the AFC. The Chiefs have been drafting late every year and competing for Super Bowls each year. 

In my 55+ years as a Bengals fan, the Bengals have often had what one might consider good draft position, and yet only have had 4 seasons in which they won playoff games. So, there must be something other than good draft position to build a winning team and winning culture.

All great points. Need to add more scouts that know how to diagnose talent though to get to where those teams are at.

[Bengalitis]

You dont play to lose even if you get the best draft, you never teach your players to give up.

[sandwedge]

(12-10-2024, 02:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cannot disagree. Wouldn't surprise me if we won out now. I just wish we started this win streak against the stealers instead of a week 
too late most likely. The team played a good game last night in all 3 phases honestly, even Defense wasn't terrible last night against a 
talented Cowboys team.


The effort last night was there except on the Lamb TD where Hilton broke the wrong way and got beat badly. Still, he played hard after
and made some nice plays. Really liked what I saw from DJ Ivey last night and Ossai.


Cannot disagree with this either. Sure hope we have enough money to sign quality FA after Ja'Marr's contract gets done.

We will need at least a couple quality FA's preferably in the trenches. A Guard and a pass rusher at the very least.


All great points. Need to add more scouts that know how to diagnose talent though to get to where those teams are at.

Why is Ivy not playing more? He had a great open field tackle, a pass knocked down. I like him better than CTB

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-10-2024, 02:38 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Why is Ivy not playing more? He had a great open field tackle, a pass knocked down. I like him better than CTB

He has been hurt most of his time as a Bengal. But yeah, I liked what I saw from Ivey a lot last night. Has good length and has fluid hips, plays 
with good instincts unlike the rest of our Corners. A Bengals Corner that plays aggressive and attacks the ball? Haven't seen this all year except a
bit from DJ Turner and Fig Newton a touch. CTB has had a rough year, he should only be playing against the #2 WR at best. Gets beat a ton even
by #2's.

[Lucius Cincinnatus]

(12-10-2024, 02:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cannot disagree. Wouldn't surprise me if we won out now. I just wish we started this win streak against the stealers instead of a week 
too late most likely. The team played a good game last night in all 3 phases honestly, even Defense wasn't terrible last night against a 
talented Cowboys team.


The effort last night was there except on the Lamb TD where Hilton broke the wrong way and got beat badly. Still, he played hard after
and made some nice plays. Really liked what I saw from DJ Ivey last night and Ossai.


Cannot disagree with this either. Sure hope we have enough money to sign quality FA after Ja'Marr's contract gets done.

We will need at least a couple quality FA's preferably in the trenches. A Guard and a pass rusher at the very least.


All great points. Need to add more scouts that know how to diagnose talent though to get to where those teams are at.

The cowboys have quite literally one good player on their offense. Who outside of CeeDee Lamb is above league average in talent on their offense? We gave up 322 yards and 20 points to a back-up QB. We gave up 131 yards to Rico Dowdle. Coming into this game, he averaged 54 ypg coming into the game. The Cowboys are the 28th worst rushing offense in the league. 

I don't think our defense played terrible, but they played at the bare minimum level of acceptability against a back-up QB and bad run game. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-10-2024, 05:24 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: The cowboys have quite literally one good player on their offense. Who outside of CeeDee Lamb is above league average in talent on their offense? We gave up 322 yards and 20 points to a back-up QB. We gave up 131 yards to Rico Dowdle. Coming into this game, he averaged 54 ypg coming into the game. The Cowboys are the 28th worst rushing offense in the league. 

I don't think our defense played terrible, but they played at the bare minimum level of acceptability against a back-up QB and bad run game. 

Kavonte Turpin is a stud, one of the most explosive players in the league. Ferguson is a decent TE as well.

Dowdle has only been playing lately and I expected him to have a big game against Lou's Defense, no surprise to me.

The Cowboys OL is bad, I will give you that and so is their Defense besides, Parsons, Odigzouhe and their Corners.

[Destro]

We need to hit on good players in every pick of the draft. Yeah, maybe not Pro Bowlers, or even majority of the snaps starters, but cannot afford a bum in the group.

[Ell Prez]

(12-10-2024, 01:30 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well forget about even trying to get top tier FAs if we go 5-12 or 6-11... i think Quality FA is more important at this time in Burrows career than a high draft pick

That’s a myth. Free agents dont care about how good a team is. they care how good the contract is

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-10-2024, 11:55 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: That’s a myth. Free agents dont care about how good a team is. they care how good the contract is

Correct. Reader signed with the Bengals coming off a 2 win season. Trey signed with the Bengals coming off a 4 win season.