Shout out for Zac Taylor

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 12:49 PM)Tomkat Wrote: I mean... look at Ryan Leaf.

You keep bringing up Ryan Leaf as if that is somehow a good counterpoint, but it isn't, so it's confusing why you keep doing it.

Nobody is saying that a guy who was really good in college must be really good in the NFL. Everyone knows that isn't true. 

What people are saying is that being really good in college precludes someone from saying some absurd things like there was "literally zero indication" that they could be good in the NFL.

[Tomkat]

(Yesterday, 12:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You keep bringing up Ryan Leaf as if that is somehow a good counterpoint, but it isn't, so it's confusing why you keep doing it.

Nobody is saying that a guy who was really good in college must be really good in the NFL. Everyone knows that isn't true. 

What people are saying is that being really good in college precludes someone from saying some absurd things like there was "literally zero indication" that they could be good in the NFL.

But see, here's the thing.
It's not like Roethelisberger played for LSU against premier schools, won a national title, etc.

He played for Miami of Ohio - not exactly known as a premier school that plays tough competition.

I still believe that hindsight is causing some revisionist bias, here.

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 12:46 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think what people are getting on you about is the fact that you are saying "there was LITERALLY no indicator he would be good".

He was the 11th overall pick brother. I can understand sometimes people use hyperbole and that's cool. However, you are trying to be serious and say that he literally had nothing suggesting that he would be a good QB. Real NFL scouts and coaches reviewed the tape and saw something so there was indication to folks who do their job that he could be a good QB. Hell, popular draft pundits like Mel Kiper and WalterFootball also liked the Ben pick. It wasn't a pick out of left field. 

I either read or saw something, maybe a YT vid of Cowher talking to Ben about it. There was apparently some discussion on just who wanted who. The "rumor" was that Cowher and...i forget the GM...wanted to go with a guard and the owner wanted Ben. Supposedly, the owner even said he walked in and wanted Ben. Cowher clarified that, yes, they knew they needed Oline--and he believed they were going that way--because they only viewed Manning and Rivers as day one starters and they didn't feel there was any way either would be there when they picked. 

They viewed Ben as someone that would need to sit for a year, but they thought he had some talent. When the internal talk shifted to the possiblity of Ben, Cowher went back and watched his games, said something along the lines of he had a chip on his shoulder and would like to get to know him better, so they brought him in for a workout. He impressed them with that workout and continuted to do so in training camp. So, when the draft came, they felt he had the potential and he continued to impress them in TC. 

Cowher said the owner had every right to embellish the story, since he was the owner, but the truth of the matter was, they changed their sights as the process went on and went with him over the Oline help they needed at the time and it was a group decision, not the owner coming into a meeting and saying "we're taking this guy". 

My personal feelings are that he was a really good QB at Miami, as i said i watched him that last year, and he had real potential to be a good QB in the NFL. 

I don't really remember anyone here even saying something like "can't miss", nor anyone, anywhere, at any time.

[Tomkat]

(Yesterday, 01:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: "...and he had real potential to be a good QB in the NFL." 

That could be said about every QB ever drafted.  Which is why they get drafted.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Yesterday, 01:10 PM)Tomkat Wrote: That could be said about every QB ever drafted.  Which is why they get drafted.

Dude.

[Tomkat]

(Yesterday, 01:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Dude.

Dude, what?  Nobody drafts a scrub intentionally.
EVERY draft pick shows "potential," in some way - otherwise they don't get drafted.

What is the issue?

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 01:10 PM)Tomkat Wrote: That could be said about every QB ever drafted.  Which is why they get drafted.

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 01:24 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Dude, what?  Nobody drafts a scrub intentionally.
EVERY draft pick shows "potential," in some way - otherwise they don't get drafted.

What is the issue?

What's the issue? Seriously?

You're comparing "any" QB that gets drafted to a first round QB. 

C'mon man. 

[Tomkat]

(Yesterday, 04:46 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What's the issue? Seriously?

You're comparing "any" QB that gets drafted to a first round QB. 

C'mon man. 

Well... in the end it's all a crap-shoot, isn't it?


Brock Purdy - Mr. Irrelevant - takes team to NFCC in his first season.
Ryan Leaf (and others) - high draft picks - didn't do sh!t.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(6 hours ago)Tomkat Wrote: Well... in the end it's all a crap-shoot, isn't it?


Brock Purdy - Mr. Irrelevant - takes team to NFCC in his first season.
Ryan Leaf (and others) - high draft picks - didn't do sh!t.

How would you have felt if you hadn't eaten breakfast?

[KillerGoose]

(6 hours ago)Tomkat Wrote: Well... in the end it's all a crap-shoot, isn't it?


Brock Purdy - Mr. Irrelevant - takes team to NFCC in his first season.
Ryan Leaf (and others) - high draft picks - didn't do sh!t.

I wouldn't call it a crapshoot, no. There's inherent risk, yes, but there are teams who are consistently better at drafting than others. That takes skill. Pittsburgh always seems to find productive receivers, for example. The Chiefs. Baltimore. These teams are able to find productive players at a more consistent rate than others.

[Tomkat]

(6 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: How would you have felt if you hadn't eaten breakfast?

I'd feel just fine, as I do now.
EVERY team HOPES to "catch lightning in a bottle" with their draft picks.
Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.
It's expected to happen more often with higher draft picks, but clearly it doesn't always happen.
When it happens with lower picks it's a pleasant surprise.

I fail to see how my argument is controversial in any way.

[Tomkat]

(6 hours ago)KillerGoose Wrote: I wouldn't call it a crapshoot, no. There's inherent risk, yes, but there are teams who are consistently better at drafting than others. That takes skill. Pittsburgh always seems to find productive receivers, for example. The Chiefs. Baltimore. These teams are able to find productive players at a more consistent rate than others.

The issue is that players are human, and no amount of scouting can account for "intangibles" that affect how the player performs once they the NFL.
Also, I believe we're dealing with a little confirmation bias... because you only hear about the successes, while the failures usually fade off into obscurity (unless it's some monumental failure.)

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-06-2025, 12:52 PM)Tomkat Wrote: literally ZERO indication he was going to be any good.

(6 hours ago)Tomkat Wrote: I fail to see how my argument is controversial in any way.

[Tomkat]

(4 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

Again, for the last time...

Being a "good" QB in college doesn't guarantee success in the NFL. (MANY "cant-miss" QB's have crashed and burned.)
Roethelisberger played for a non-premier school, against non-premiere competition.

Sure, it was a great pick, IN HINDSIGHT.
But at the time, it was just "meh."

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(3 hours ago)Tomkat Wrote: Again, for the last time...

Being a "good" QB in college doesn't guarantee success in the NFL. (MANY "cant-miss" QB's have crashed and burned.)
Roethelisberger played for a non-premier school, against non-premiere competition.

Sure, it was a great pick, IN HINDSIGHT.
But at the time, it was just "meh."

Again, for the last time...

NOBODY SAID IT GUARANTEED SUCCESS.

YOU SAID "LITERALLY ZERO INDICATION". ANY INDICATION AT ALL IS MORE THAN LITERALLY ZERO.

[*Nately120*]

(6 hours ago)Tomkat Wrote: Well... in the end it's all a crap-shoot, isn't it?


Brock Purdy - Mr. Irrelevant - takes team to NFCC in his first season.
Ryan Leaf (and others) - high draft picks - didn't do sh!t.

Ida know, I'm pretty glad we replaced Dalton with Burrow at #1 overall rather than waiting and picking Nate Stanley in the 7th round.  Potential matters, but you have to play the odds.  A powerball ticket could be worth $850,000,000 but there is a reason you can buy one for $2.

[Tomkat]

(3 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Again, for the last time...

NOBODY SAID IT GUARANTEED SUCCESS.

YOU SAID "LITERALLY ZERO INDICATION". ANY INDICATION AT ALL IS MORE THAN LITERALLY ZERO.

Yea, that's a bit pedantic, but I'll concede that I over-exaggerrated a little.
The point is... teams weren't clamoring to pick him as the next Joe-Montana (Tom Brady was drafted only 4 years prior.)

[Tomkat]

(3 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Again, for the last time...

NOBODY SAID IT GUARANTEED SUCCESS.

YOU SAID "LITERALLY ZERO INDICATION". ANY INDICATION AT ALL IS MORE THAN LITERALLY ZERO.

Also, if you want to count "good stats" against sub-premier competition as an "any indication," then that's on you.

[*Nately120*]

I'm all about debate, but the idea that we're debating the value of high picks on the message board of a team that would be absolutely dreadful if it weren't for #1 and #4 overall pick players is a hoot.