I've got an uneasy feeling...

[SunsetBengal]

(02-14-2025, 09:30 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The money pie is only so big.  The more of the pie 3 players demand the less pie there is for everyone else to have.  The solution I see Burrow and a few of his fans advocate?  Take even more pie from someone else 4 or 5 years down the road so the guys on the team in 4-5 years have less pie as well.  Sure the salary cap will be higher in a few years but at the same time so will the salary of the players you will need to pay.

Exactly, it makes no kind of sense to be paying your second WR greater than or equal to 10% of the team salary cap. If Tee's the best WR on the market and can get paid as a WR1, let him go get his money. The Bengals are typically pretty good at finding WRs when they want one.

[*jason*]

(02-14-2025, 09:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Exactly, it makes no kind of sense to be paying your second WR greater than or equal to 10% of the team salary cap. If Tee's the best WR on the market and can get paid as a WR1, let him go get his money. The Bengals are typically pretty good at finding WRs when they want one.

Except they've been trying to prepare for this for two years. Their answers?... Charlie Jones, Iosivas, and Jermaine Burton. They did it with Bates (Dax), Trey (Murphy) and Whit (Fisher, and Ced) too. They try to get in front of it, and fail. They can't evaluate talent, and they can't develop it.

[samhain]

(02-14-2025, 12:11 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: If they botch the Burrow years and he goes elsewhere, I’m going with him. I’ll try to anyway, I just somehow can’t seem to quit this organization of ingrates.

Throw tomatoes at me if you must.

I'll be right there with you.  If they screw this up, I'm not sure I'll be able to convince myself that they'll ever figure it out in my remaining years.  When you start getting older, you let go of attachments.  42 years of finding ways to fail is a lot.  Maybe life would be of a higher quality without the false hope.

I could do something healthier with my free time.  Like maybe experimentation with heroin and cocaine simultaneously.  

[*bfine32*]

(02-14-2025, 12:08 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: OH please..Joe Burrow is not going anywhere..he is under contract..nor will he sit on the bench and mope.............Furthermore ..like it or not..Joes  lengthy and reccuring injuries are one of the reasons this team has been behind the 8 ball the past 2 years

I have 0 idea why folks would thumbs down this post and not the OP. Do those folks think JB will sit on the bench and mope or do they think JB hasn't been oft-injured?

I'm with you, JB is going nowhere; seems like only yesterday folks were saying he wouldn't come here if drafted, then it was JB won't sign a long-term here, then it was he may sign but it'll be a magic contract where he takes 0 dollars and saves then for other players.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-14-2025, 01:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: Burrow can say what he wants but actions speak louder than words and while he talking Chase and Tee taking less money, they likely giving him the side eye for not practicing what he preaches now when he had the chance.

We all love Joe, but he gets no love for acting like everyone else including the FO has to sacrifice and do what he wouldn't.

And getting 30m up front , and forcing a new deal for him to come 2 years early because of the pushed back cap hit of the final years  for restructuring a contract is not a sacrifice contrary to what people around here struggle to understand.

The only thing I've heard Burrow say is pay players what they are worth. I think the hope they take less money is from the fans chase will be the highest non QB contract and you can't give Tee an offer that excludes things that every other franchise would give him and expect to sign him. I heard Zeitler say that the team reached out in 21 ( I believe) with an offer that was so low it was insulting and considering he just played for a 1yr 6mil dollar deal im curios what exactly it was. 

As far as his comments though they are the only thing giving me hope. It's one thing for the team to ignore fan rumblings but now the face of your franchise is watching and if they try and low ball and go cheap it's not going to sit very well with him or the fan base.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-14-2025, 10:11 PM)jason Wrote: Except they've been trying to prepare for this for two years. Their answers?... Charlie Jones, Iosivas, and Jermaine Burton. They did it with Bates (Dax), Trey (Murphy) and Whit (Fisher, and Ced) too. They try to get in front of it, and fail. They can't evaluate talent, and they can't develop it.

They tend to undervalue the talent they have on the field. They worry about the future which is smart but they're solution is flawed. They draft a player or players a year before they lose a player and hope they workout. Instead we need to pay them earlier and not front load the contract give yourself years on the back end if you need to restructure. Continue to draft those positions then if one hits you free yourself up. 
The poor draft picks is unfortunate but also concerning because with all the analytics and data points it does alot of your work for you.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-14-2025, 09:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Exactly, it makes no kind of sense to be paying your second WR greater than or equal to 10% of the team salary cap. If Tee's the best WR on the market and can get paid as a WR1, let him go get his money. The Bengals are typically pretty good at finding WRs when they want one.

They are but I certainly don't want to spend a 1st or 2nd rd pick on a WR. Especially because even that isn't a guaranteed hit. We can pay Chase and have his cap hit less this year than it would be as his 5th year option. We can pay tee and have his cap hit less than the tag if we want. The Bengals have the ability to pay these players and still add players to really set us up for the draft. Our window is right now.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-14-2025, 04:07 PM)higgy100 Wrote: You have ZERO idea what JB would do to get out of here if the FO ain't going to play hardball. Nobody thought the rather quiet, unassuming Carson Palmer would get agitated enough. It happens. These MF'rs are competitive.

Burrow's a great guy and a loyal guy but he's damn near approaching the midway point of his career and he's tasted championships in HS and college.

You don't think he wants one now? The team is already the laughing stock of the NFL with their FO and especially the scouting dept. which, btw, is where you build playoff teams.

Yeah i mean the Steelers just offered a 1st and 2nd for Lawernce supposedly. If Burrow gets pissed and requests a trade a team isn't offering 3 1st rd picks for him? 
I have a hard time seeing him do that with Chase here but it's not out of the realm of possibility and I certainly don't want to get anywhere in the vicinity of making him question things.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-14-2025, 09:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Right, Carson Palmer forced the hand and never ended up any better than he was with the Bengals. When will the newer generations learn from History?

Palmer didn't do it publicly and his play was no where near Burrows by the time he was making his requests. Also Burrows comments aren't really an ultimatum as far as we know. But they are good no matter what side of the sign Tee higgins fence you are on. If your QB is making comments about paying your big name guys and the Bengals not only have the ability but can sign other players as well. It gives all of us fans a real honest look behind the curtain. If they let tee walk and sign Chase and Trey along with a few of our other players and then sit on they're hands in free agency we can all know that they don't value winning as much as a team needs to, to be legitimate contenders.

[BoomerFan]

(02-14-2025, 06:24 PM)CJD Wrote: The Bengals front office has a way with frustrating and wearing down the team's fans and players.

This is the answer. 

The money pie is the same for everyone, but the Bengals act stingier about it somehow. And the funny thing is, they might treat their players better in the long run but it isn't how players WANT to be treated. This whole thing about being averse to cutting players and letting them finish contracts seems noble, but it does mean you end up with less chances at talent. Players would rather get paid up front and be on a team that cuts some people along the way. It is both better cap management and sustains the energy of the team better. 

And of course that pie gets bigger every year (almost). Players want teams to spend more of the future cap. The Bengals are averse to doing that. Look, I get it. If all of your wealth is from football, that represents a bigger risk to you than other ownership. But the players are risking their health to play. If they are going all in, the ownership has to as well. 

All that said, I don't think the Bengals are the worst organization in football or anything. And I think what the Eagles did isn't something that all teams do. But we do need to move faster, communicate with players better, and stop acting so resentful of players looking for money that they'd get elsewhere. That's the vibe I get from this FO too often. It lost us Whitworth. It lost us Bates. It might lose us Tee during his best years, which will also tick off all the other players. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Mike Brown, for right or wrong, is maddeningly consistent with respect to his football philosophy: Get the right quarterback and everything else automatically falls into place. To quote my good friend BengalFan74, Mikey Boy has found his generation’s Otto Graham in Joe Burrow but things have not automatically fallen into place. Still, Burrow has leverage with Brown far greater than even Carson Palmer. Burrow led this team within three points of winning a Super Bowl and Palmer, talented as he was, never won a playoff game as a Bengal.

When Palmer issued his ultimata to Brown fifteen years ago Brown took a “BLEEP around and find out!” approach. Palmer ended up in Oakland as trade bait while Brown ripped the Raiders’ Front Office a new anal orifice in one of the most incredible trade deals in NFL history. Brown did this shortly after Al Davis passed away, too. Savage.

This time it would behoove Brown to listen to Burrow. The Cincinnati offense only fires on all cylinders with both Tee Higgins and Ja’Marr Chase simultaneously on the field. When one of the two is injured coverage rolls toward the remaining receiver. Brown needs to pay both Higgins and Chase.

Like the OP I share the queasy feeling too. If Higgins leaves this changes the entire draft calculus. Now, instead of bolstering the trenches, the Bengals will need to replace Higgins and his skill set is almost non-replaceable. The closest college player I’ve seen to Tee Higgins is Ohio State’s Emeka Egbuka — and the Bengals would have to trade a lot to pick early enough in the draft to get Egbuka.

Or, alternatively, maybe sanity will prevail in the Front Office and Mikey Boy will pay both Chase and Higgins. Then the draft can focus on the Ohio State player the Bengals really need: Jack Sawyer.

[*Synric*]

Is Joe Burrow pushing the narrative or is the media by repeatedly asking him contract questions? Of course Joe would love to have Tee Higgins and Mike Gesicki back but if he has to work in some new receivers he can and will.


The question will be can the new receivers either veteran or worse a rookie step in quickly enough to keep them as a top 5 passing offense. That will be important because we are probably going to see alot of new on defense along with a new system/coaches.

[ERIC1]

(02-15-2025, 10:04 AM)Synric Wrote: Is Joe Burrow pushing the narrative or is the media by repeatedly asking him contract questions? Of course Joe would love to have Tee Higgins and Mike Gesicki back but if he has to work in some new receivers he can and will.


The question will be can the new receivers either veteran or worse a rookie step in quickly enough to keep them as a top 5 passing offense. That will be important because we are probably going to see alot of new on defense along with a new system/coaches.

Id rather have a top 15-20  passing offense  along with a "good" rest of the team..That top 5 passing offense got us where ?  9-8

[ERIC1]

(02-15-2025, 09:36 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Mike Brown, for right or wrong, is maddeningly consistent with respect to his football philosophy:  Get the right quarterback and everything else automatically falls into place.  To quote my good friend BengalFan74, Mikey Boy has found his generation’s Otto Graham in Joe Burrow but things have not automatically fallen into place.  Still, Burrow has leverage with Brown far greater than even Carson Palmer.  Burrow led this team within three points of winning a Super Bowl and Palmer, talented as he was, never won a playoff game as a Bengal.

When Palmer issued his ultimata to Brown fifteen years ago Brown took a “BLEEP around and find out!” approach.  Palmer ended up in Oakland as trade bait while Brown ripped the Raiders’ Front Office a new anal orifice in one of the most incredible trade deals in NFL history.  Brown did this shortly after Al Davis passed away, too. Savage.

This time it would behoove Brown to listen to Burrow.  The Cincinnati offense only fires on all cylinders with both Tee Higgins and Ja’Marr Chase simultaneously on the field.  When one of the two is injured coverage rolls toward the remaining receiver.  Brown needs to pay both Higgins and Chase.

Like the OP I share the queasy feeling too.  If Higgins leaves this changes the entire draft calculus.  Now, instead of bolstering the trenches, the Bengals will need to replace Higgins and his skill set is almost non-replaceable.  The closest college player I’ve seen to Tee Higgins is Ohio State’s Emeka Egbuka — and the Bengals would have to trade a lot to pick early enough in the draft to get Egbuka.

Or, alternatively, maybe sanity will prevail in the Front Office and Mikey Boy will pay both Chase and Higgins.  Then the draft can focus on the Ohio State player the Bengals really need: Jack Sawyer.

1) none of us know how involved Mike Brown is @ his age..We all assume 2) The bengals offense can and often has been good without Higgins..W e need receivers that can run halfway decent routes  and catch a football 3) You conveniently forget to mention  that Higgins misses 5-6 games a year and is pulled  out early in another 4-5..3) yeah sure ..if we draft Jack Sawyer we are going to the superbowl

[Frank Booth]

(02-15-2025, 11:35 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: 1) none of us know how involved Mike Brown is @ his age..We all assume 2) The bengals offense can and often has been good without Higgins..W e need receivers that can run halfway decent routes  and catch a football 3) You conveniently forget to mention  that Higgins misses 5-6 games a year and is pulled  out early in another 4-5..3) yeah sure ..if we draft Jack Sawyer we are going to the superbowl

All the people in favor of bringing higgins back always leave out the 5 games per year that he will miss, and another 3 game he’ll just leave early

[ERIC1]

(02-15-2025, 02:26 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Palmer didn't do it publicly and his play was no where near Burrows by the time he was making his requests. Also Burrows comments aren't really an ultimatum as far as we know. But they are good no matter what side of the sign Tee higgins fence you are on. If your QB is making comments about paying your big name guys and the Bengals not only have the ability but can sign other players as well. It gives all of us fans a real honest look behind the curtain. If they let tee walk and sign Chase and Trey along with a few of our other players and then sit on they're hands in free agency we can all know that they don't value winning as much as a team needs to, to be legitimate contenders.

Tee Higgins, Chase and Burrow are best friends..We have no look "behind the curtain"  we dont know what is being discussed..everyone needs to cool their jets...All these fictionous stories are being created by sportswriters and people on team blogs..So far....we all knew there were major issues on the offensive line and defense as a whole..the organization has  partially addressed such..I would not sign Tee Higgins because he has a chronic injury that will persist .

[ERIC1]

(02-15-2025, 11:37 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: All the people in favor of bringing higgins back always leave out the 5 games per year that he will miss, and another 3 game he’ll just leave early

pretty much....but heres a good resolution ..pay him 12 million a year for actual time spent on the field..problem solved..we keep good ole Tee and have some additional money to spend on others

[samhain]

(02-15-2025, 11:39 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: Tee Higgins, Chase and Burrow are best friends..We have no look "behind the curtain"  we dont know what is being discussed..everyone needs to cool their jets...All these fictionous stories are being created by sportswriters and people on team blogs..So far....we all knew there were major issues on the offensive line and defense as a whole..the organization has addressed such

It's funny how you levy accusations of intentional dishonesty and immediately hedge in the next word of your post.

It's like me saying that you are an imbecilic loudmouth trying to start shit on this board......So far.

Take it from someone who has been saying insane shit on here for a long time: Making a statement that you view as controversial loses weight when you castrate yourself by hedging.  It lets everyone know that you are well aware how full of shit you actually are.  Calling someone a liar is kind of a big deal to most people.  You not only fling the accusation frequently, but also charmingly lack the guts to do it without taking responsibility should you be proven wrong.  

You call people liars and then say they might not actually be liars.  Maybe you should just admit that you don't know any more than they do about it.

[ERIC1]

(02-15-2025, 01:56 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The only thing I've heard Burrow say is pay players what they are worth. I think the hope they take less money is from the fans chase will be the highest non QB contract and you can't give Tee an offer that excludes things that every other franchise would give him and expect to sign him. I heard Zeitler say that the team reached out in 21 ( I believe) with an offer that was so low it was insulting and considering he just played for a 1yr 6mil dollar deal im curios what exactly it was. 

As far as his comments though they are the only thing giving me hope. It's one thing for the team to ignore fan rumblings but now the face of your franchise is watching and if they try and low ball and go cheap it's not going to sit very well with him or the fan bas

  Offensive line and defense as an entirety was terrible..Bengals made some definitive changes that should give you hope..not joe Burrows meanderings in front of the press..Bengals pay their players well ..including joe Burrow......and there are many of us ( fan base) that have seen this team draft and retain players that have injury concerns and it does not turn out well..Higgins cant stay healthy and thats a fact..Joe Burrow will be out on the field giving it 100% regardless of how things turn out..You all are acting like Higgins will be shipped to Siberia and working for pennies a day..Higgins will be fine ,he will continue to play in the NFL ..he will be a multimillionairre many times over..So let me ask you a question NUGDUKWE..f you managed a company would you hire an employee that you know is going to miss work almost one third of the time and leaves early with illness another third of the time..Doubt it.Have a nice day

[ERIC1]

(02-15-2025, 11:52 AM)samhain Wrote: It's funny how you levy accusations of intentional dishonesty and immediately hedge in the next word of your post.

It's like me saying that you are an imbecilic loudmouth trying to start shit on this board......So far.

Take it from someone who has been saying insane shit on here for a long time: Making a statement that you view as controversial loses weight when you castrate yourself by hedging.  It lets everyone know that you are well aware how full of shit you actually are.  Calling someone a liar is kind of a big deal to most people.  You not only fling the accusation frequently, but also charmingly lack the guts to do it without taking responsibility should you be proven wrong.  

You call people liars and then say they might not actually be liars.  Maybe you should just admit that you don't know any more than they do about it.

1) I have never called anyone a "liar" and if you scroll up and read one of my posts I included myself in not knowing what discussions are being had between players and management..Perhaps you should leave emotion out of it and improve your reading comprehension 2) I dont think that aforementioned  comment is insane by any means ..3) I admit that I dont know anymore regarding discussions between management, players , Burrow etc and coaches regarding FA and Tee Higgins or any other player for that matter. 4) my feelings ..of which I am entitled to..about Higgins are based on fact..He has chronic tendionapthy, it will not get any better .. Have a nice day