Free Agency

[SunsetBengal]

(03-05-2025, 08:26 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: How much of a reset is it really?  

Bosa got $34m AAV vs a $224m cap.
Crosby is getting $38m AAV vs a $278m cap

The % of Guarantees is really the biggest difference.  Bosa got 70ish percent to 85% for Crosby.  When you count the last two years of his current contract, he is under control for 5 years, $153m, or just over $30m/year in AAV.

It’s hard at this point to “overpay” elite players, with the rising cap.  Just get Chase done for $40,000,000.  I get the bengals offer of $38,000,000… it’s just the JJ contract with the 9% escalation in cap. The issue is Chase wants to do better, or beat it.

That makes sense and is exactly what the Bengals should have done with Chase, last year. In Hendrickson's case, age is working against him and he's only under team control for one more year. How much do you really want to guarantee in a guy at the top of his position that might fall off the age cliff? Same goes for Higgins, he's younger and highly talented, but also carries a chronic injury that costs the team his services. His talent says "top of the scale", but his availability says lower side of the top 10 salaries. And how much do you want to guarantee Higgins with those recurring injuries? Chase, you go all in on that guy, as he is that guy.

[*jason*]

(03-05-2025, 07:59 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Younger, yes. Better, not so fast. He may be better, but it’s a coin flip at best, with the lean going to Hendrickson, IMO.

Pff isn’t be all, end all.

Trey
OVR-88.1
Pass rush- 90.4
Run defense - 65.1
Snaps - 823

Crosby
OVR - 74.1
Pass rush - 70.1
Run defense - 73
Snaps - 766

Last 3 years, Hendrickson ranks second in sacks (43), one behind the leader Myles Garrett. Maxx Crosby is 7th with 34.5. Trey Hendrickson has forced 8 sacks to Crosby’s 4, over the same time period.

I get it, we want to maybe diminish his play, expecting we will lose him. Make no bones about it, he is a top player at his position with an elite skill set.

I can't pretend to understand how pff does this but I'm calling bullshit on Trey's defense against the run. All I have is the eye test, but he often seems like a liability in that department.

[*jason*]

(03-05-2025, 07:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This team has always struggled to retain even two top of the market star players, let alone four of them. Obviously they're going to do whatever it takes to keep Chase, but I've been thinking all along that one of Tee or Trey was going to be exiting soon. If they want to keep Joe happy and sign Tee, fine. However Trey means more to the team as I see him as tougher to replace. Yeah, I know the draft is loaded with pass rushers, but the draft is also a crap shoot. The offense can build the line, sign Gesicki back and sign another strong TE for less than Higgin, and make the offense more dynamic and less predictable going forward.

Trey is also under contract and on the wrong side of 30. If one has to go this year (and that's not case) then I'm keeping the younger guy.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-05-2025, 07:59 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Younger, yes.  Better, not so fast.  He may be better, but it’s a coin flip at best, with the lean going to Hendrickson, IMO.

Pff isn’t be all, end all.

Trey
OVR-88.1
Pass rush- 90.4
Run defense - 65.1
Snaps - 823

Crosby
OVR - 74.1
Pass rush - 70.1
Run defense - 73
Snaps - 766

...based off the only year of his career that Maxx Crosby has been injured enough to miss games, and playing while needing ankle surgery. 

I'd like to see the numbers from 2023 or 2022 where he averaged playing over 1,080 snaps and averaged 89.5 tackles, 22.5 tackles, and <4% missed tackles.

Trey is a great pass rusher and we need to extend him, but that's a bit of a silly comparison and it's okay to accept he's less of a complete player than Crosby. Hendrickson is already puking on the sidelines playing 65-70% of the snaps. There's zero chance he gets as many sacks as he has been getting if he has to play an extra 300-400 snaps a year against the run like Crosby does.

[pulses]

(03-05-2025, 08:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If they could get him for that deal, it would be a steal. I have a feeling with Crosby resetting the market today that the $20M/per you were hoping for will become $25M/per.

I'd do 3 and anywhere from 60-75 for sweat

[Bengalbug]

(03-05-2025, 08:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: ...based off the only year of his career that Maxx Crosby has been injured enough to miss games, and playing while needing ankle surgery. 

I'd like to see the numbers from 2023 or 2022 where he averaged playing over 1,080 snaps and averaged 89.5 tackles, 22.5 tackles, and <4% missed tackles.

Trey is a great pass rusher and we need to extend him, but that's a bit of a silly comparison and it's okay to accept he's less of a complete player than Crosby. Hendrickson is already puking on the sidelines playing 65-70% of the snaps. There's zero chance he gets as many sacks as he has been getting if he has to play an extra 300-400 snaps a year against the run like Crosby does.

It’s apples and oranges. Crosby might be more well rounded, but Trey is more Elite at his skill set. It’s like asking who is a better tight end, kelce or gronk. They are different. Gronk is more well rounded, but kelce is the better pass catcher. It’s a matter of opinion and what you value.


Fwiw, only 12 De’s played more snaps than Trey Hendrickson in 2024. It’s not as if he takes plays off.

[sandwedge]

(03-05-2025, 07:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: All I know is that I just heard Maxx Crosby just got extended 3 yrs/$106M. I guess we better start thinking about our farewell posts to one of Trey or Tee.

I think they way over paid! Crosby is one of the best, but not for that much.

[cinci4life]

Chargers released Bosa.

[Joelist]

What you need to know is how much actual cash the Bengals have - the cap is irrelevant as it rose so much. Cash is what is needed to pay the signing bonus and cash is what has to go into escrow for guarantees. So actual cash literally defines what they can do both on extensions and on signing new Free Agents.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-06-2025, 12:50 AM)cinci4life Wrote: Chargers released Bosa.

Saving over $25m in cap space for a guy with 14 sacks over the last 3 years combined is not a surprising move at all. Sadly just could never live up (or stay healthy) to that early career promise.  

[higgy100]

(03-06-2025, 12:55 AM)Joelist Wrote: What you need to know is how much actual cash the Bengals have - the cap is irrelevant as it rose so much. Cash is what is needed to pay the signing bonus and cash is what has to go into escrow for guarantees. So actual cash literally defines what they can do both on extensions and on signing new Free Agents.

Yep. It's about cash they actually have and cash they actually want to pay. Big difference and it rarely works hand in hand with plenty of franchises and especially this franchise.

[higgy100]

(03-05-2025, 06:27 PM)pulses Wrote: I think in the long run we'll trade Trey. After Crosby getting that big deal Trey is gonna want 30/yr or more and I wouldn't pay that for a 30 yr old with back problems. Get good value in a trade ( picks and a player) and move on and sign Josh Sweat on a 3 year deal.

Bengals have proven even with Trey's greatest production and seasons that they can still finish last/next to last in back to back years.Unless you're getting production on the other side of the DL, Trey can throw up 18 sacks next year and it won't matter. 

Trey is a great player but he's simple to defend. He's not a good run stopper nor is he a guy that teams have to scheme against because Cinci. does not move him around.You know where he's at.

[THE PISTONS]

Joey Bosa just got released. Could sign him right now if we wanted. I think he's slightly younger than Trey.

But if Trey expects like $35-40 million a year...I don't think we should do that.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-06-2025, 09:52 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Joey Bosa just got released. Could sign him right now if we wanted. I think he's slightly younger than Trey.

But if Trey expects like $35-40 million a year...I don't think we should do that.

He's also significantly less healthy and less productive than Trey. He's started just 18 games over the last 3 years.

Bosa the last 3 years combined:
14.0 sacks, 4 FF, 52 tackles, 14 TFL, 27 QB Hits

Trey last year alone:
17.5 sacks, 2 FF, 46 tackles, 19 TFL, 36 QB Hits

- - - - - - -

EDIT: because I thought it would be funny...

Sam Hubbard the last 3 years combined:
14.5 sacks, 2 FF, 159 tackles, 21 TFL, 49 QB Hits

Granted it's over 44 starts, but I just thought it was amusing that Sam Hubbard technically had more sacks the previous 3 years combined than Joey Bosa did.

[higgy100]

(03-06-2025, 09:59 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: He's also significantly less healthy and less productive than Trey. He's started just 18 games over the last 3 years.

Bosa the last 3 years combined:
14.0 sacks, 4 FF, 52 tackles, 14 TFL, 27 QB Hits

Trey last year alone:
17.5 sacks, 2 FF, 46 tackles, 19 TFL, 36 QB Hits

- - - - - - -

EDIT: because I thought it would be funny...

Sam Hubbard the last 3 years combined:
14.5 sacks, 2 FF, 159 tackles, 21 TFL, 49 QB Hits

Granted it's over 44 starts, but I just thought it was amusing that Sam Hubbard technically had more sacks the previous 3 years combined than Joey Bosa did.

 
 What would a team have to pay for Bosa if they picked him up?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-06-2025, 10:45 AM)higgy100 Wrote:  What would a team have to pay for Bosa if they picked him up?

Not even going to pretend I have the slightest clue. Lol

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-06-2025, 12:55 AM)Joelist Wrote: What you need to know is how much actual cash the Bengals have - the cap is irrelevant as it rose so much. Cash is what is needed to pay the signing bonus and cash is what has to go into escrow for guarantees. So actual cash literally defines what they can do both on extensions and on signing new Free Agents.

We have the lowest allotment of cash to non-QBs in the entire league. 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2025/2/18/24367819/bengals-on-the-hook-for-7th-lowest-amount-of-cash-in-nfl

Brown is a cheap, greedy bastard. Full stop.

[Essex Johnson]

My prediction is we land 3 of these 4: Bosa, Zeitler, Banks , Greenlaw

[Joelist]

(03-06-2025, 12:59 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We have the lowest allotment of cash to non-QBs in the entire league. 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2025/2/18/24367819/bengals-on-the-hook-for-7th-lowest-amount-of-cash-in-nfl

Brown is a cheap, greedy bastard. Full stop.

Doesn't answer the basic question of cash on hand. Remember this is the family business and there is no sugar daddy with mountains of free cash like the other franchises have. Maybe they have less cash spent Non-QB because they don't have that sugar daddy and so they have to work within the Operating Income each year. 

What REALLY needs to happen is the league needs to abolish the Funding Rule. 

[cinci4life]

49ers are going to release DT Javon Hargrave. Another option to consider?