Dalton Risner: "Would LOVE to be a Bengal"

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-17-2025, 06:52 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I know it's super frustrating, but will say again: just wait until after the draft.

We will see some moves at that point.

Exactly. I mean, I have no idea what our own conversations have been/not been with the likes of Hernandez, Scherff, or Risner. But Hetnandez likely cannot pass a physical, so he likely is not gonna sign soon. Risner signs late almost every year, and it looks like Scherff is waiting until after the draft to try and sign forcthe most money he can (Risner, too). 

Teams are not gonna vough up big $$ when they coukd still land a younger, cheaper player in a week. 

Plus, Scherff has been a RG all his career. IDK about the history on Risner & Hernandez, but the both took every snap at RG last year as well. That is fine is we get Jackson or a left sided guy, but what about, say Ratledge? If we sogn Scherff tomorrow, then do we have to pass on Ratledge? 

I'd much rather see how the draft breaks and then allocate our linited FA $$ accordingly. RG, LG, SS, FS, DE, RB, etc. 

If Risner/Hernandez have a history of playing on the left at a similar level, then I don't care. But if they are both very much RGs, then I want to see how the draft goes first. And I'd prefer guys with LG or left side experience (Jackson, Zabel, Savaiinaea, Fairchild) over the RG guys (Booker, Ratledge). 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

If I had to rate our position groups in terms of, how alarmed I'd be if we stood pat at the position?

Tier 1: Must add

1. Guard
2. Safety
3. DT

--Tier 2: Could live without it, but needed-----
4. DE
5. TE
6. PK

-----Tier 3: Probably just depth unless a stud falls 
7. CB 
8. RB 
9. OT 
10. LB


-----Tier 4: Depth only
11. WR 
12. C

Tier 5: We're set 
13 QB 
14. P 
15. LS 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-17-2025, 07:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Exactly. I mean, I have no idea what our own conversations have been/not been with the likes of Hernandez, Scherff, or Risner. But Hetnandez likely cannot pass a physical, so he likely is not gonna sign soon. Risner signs late almost every year, and it looks like Scherff is waiting until after the draft to try and sign forcthe most money he can (Risner, too). 

Actually, in the case of Scherff I'd say that he likely doesn't want to participate in an entire offseason program. He likely wants the time to fully heal and show up at camp feeling rejuvenated.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-17-2025, 08:18 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: If I had to rate our position groups in terms of, how alarmed I'd be if we stood pat at the position?

Tier 1: Must add

1. Guard
2. Safety
3. DT

--Tier 2: Could live without it, but needed-----
4. DE
5. TE
6. PK

-----Tier 3: Probably just depth unless a stud falls 
7. CB 
8. RB 
9. OT 
10. LB


-----Tier 4: Depth only
11. WR 
12. C

Tier 5: We're set 
13 QB 
14. P 
15. LS 

I would differ on Tier 1, we just drafted to DT last year and then signed a FA DT an resigned Hill,  what DE did we draft last year and what DE did we pick up as FA plus with Trey issue, that is a major problem, i dont see how you rate DT ,  I don;t see PK as Tier 2, i see it as Tier 5

[samhain]

(04-17-2025, 09:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I would differ on Tier 1, we just drafted to DT last year and then signed a FA DT an resigned Hill,  what DE did we draft last year and what DE did we pick up as FA plus with Trey issue, that is a major problem, i dont see how you rate DT ,  

I actually agree.  I think DE is a much larger issue than DT.  After the tenuous Trey situation, we have a lot of unproven guys.  I feel like they're putting a lot of faith in Murphy and Ossai, moreso Ossai.  

At DT, there isn't a ton of proven quality, either, but the 4 guys in the rotation have the potential to be adequate if the 2nd year guys develop.  That's not a huge ask IMO.  Slaton is the NT they didn't have.  He's no Reader to be sure, but he's better than what we had in 2024, which was nothing.

I honestly think they need more than one DE.  They need a twitchy edge guy and another big, typical Bengal DE.  

[phil413]

(04-17-2025, 09:52 PM)samhain Wrote: I actually agree.  I think DE is a much larger issue than DT.  After the tenuous Trey situation, we have a lot of unproven guys.  I feel like they're putting a lot of faith in Murphy and Ossai, moreso Ossai.  

At DT, there isn't a ton of proven quality, either, but the 4 guys in the rotation have the potential to be adequate if the 2nd year guys develop.  That's not a huge ask IMO.  Slaton is the NT they didn't have.  He's no Reader to be sure, but he's better than what we had in 2024, which was nothing.

I honestly think they need more than one DE.  They need a twitchy edge guy and another big, typical Bengal DE.  

I pretty much echo the same take. Ideally, being bad enough to get pick 17 should earn you a starting DE that isn't one dimensional..provides they're among the BPA. 

They need to look to trade down with the similar talent between mid-1st thru 2nd but it takes too. Trading down to just get the best DE (rusher, balanced or run heavy) and then another DL later of any kind is a win.  I don't care that the 2nd unit is filled with young "potential" they aren't proven enough to skip DL especially DE.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-17-2025, 09:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I would differ on Tier 1, we just drafted to DT last year and then signed a FA DT an resigned Hill,  what DE did we draft last year and what DE did we pick up as FA plus with Trey issue, that is a major problem, i dont see how you rate DT ,  I don;t see PK as Tier 2, i see it as Tier 5

At DT, we only have 4 signed guys out of 73. We carry 5. We have to sign another guy. And of the 4, 2 are NT types with very limited pash rush sills and Jenkins' strength is run D. Hill is out beat DT pass rusher, and he's barely above average. We desperately need interior pass rush and none of those guys provide it. And even after adding 1 guy for the 53, we absolutely need another 1-2 for the PS. Another 3T and another NT. Late picks or DSFA or FA. 

Meanwhile, at DE we have Trey. Ossai had 5 sacks the last 6 games (I think) and we just paid him $6-7 mil to come back. That isn't backup money. We picked Murphy 2 years ago, and he did not get a sack, but graded out OK-ish, though well below expectations. Sample was a perfectly fine rotational piece pre injury. Cedric Johnson looked fine last year in very limited snaps. And RJIII is back on a PS deal. And we have Thomas signed. 

That is 7 guys. Including an all pro and 3 rotational level guys. That is way better than what we have at DT. More talent and more depth. And while I do not view PFF as gospel, and tend to think ESPN is closer to the truth on Slaton than PFF, checknout the numbers at DE vs DT. 

DE: 88.1, 58.3, 56.5, 61.6 (2023), 70.7; 62.4, RJIII no snaps
DT: 70.2, 45.3; 45.4, 53.0 

Where would you be more concerned? 

Plus, to my mind, there is not a true DE I'd take at #17 (hard no on Stewart). That leaves the OLB types who don't really fit our system, and who will struggle vs the run. Green is the best. I am a hard no in Williams and Pearce at #17. And once you get to Rd2, I don't see that much difference between Rd/Rd3 and even some Rd4 guys. 

Whereas at DT, the draft is thinner (same thing at G and S). Especially for pass rusher/disruptor types. Nolen & Harmon are both worthy Rd1 picks. Alexander in Rd2. After that? Slim pickins. Farmer? Ty Robinson? So I have more urgency at DT, on a number of levels: less bodies, less talent, less depth in draft. And less FA options. Za'Darius Smith is still out there. If I whiff at the draft,,I can make a run at him. At DT, the FA ship has sailed.

I don't disagree that we could use another pass rushing DE. But I think the situation at DT is more urgent. Feel free to disagree, of course. But that is my thinking. We have 5-6 playable guys in the building at DE. We have 2 at DT. And hoping 2 more level up. 

At G & S, I need a starter level guy. If I wait past Rd2, that is likely gone. Maybe Rd3. Whereas at both DT and DE,,I am looking for pass rush/situational help and have 2 playable starter level guys in hand. But more depth and talent at DE. 

Rd1:
G: Zabel, Jackson
S: Emmanwori/Starks 
DT: Harmon, Nolen 
OLB: Green 
DE: None 

Rd2:
G: Savaiinaea, Ratledge
S: Watts 
DT: Alexander 
DE: Scourton, Jackson, JTT, Burch 
OLB: None 

Rd3: 
G: None
S: Winston 
DT: Farmer, Robinson 
DE: Sawyer 
OLB: None 

Off the top of my head.

[Luvnit2]

(04-17-2025, 07:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They still have Trey Hendrickson in limbo. If they don't move him during the draft, they'll likely concede and give him a damn contract that reflects what his value is as a player. When that domino falls, however way it goes, I would expect some sort of activity in terms of free agency soon after.

I know a lot of fans want to give Trey an additional 15 million in 2025 or double his contract, but I don't see the FO even considering doing that and I agree. The team does not have to throw away the 2025 contract (which is really 19 million in 2025 when you factor in his signing bonus already paid t him in 2023.

I know Trey wants the moon, but a ton of guys have outplayed their contracts in the NFL. Henry is 31 and is a beast, yet Ravens do not appear to be giving him a new deal. Watt is in last year of his deal and I have not seen Steelers rushing to give him another huge deal, he is also 31 I believe.

I love Trey, but the fact is he only has 16 million guaranteed for 2025. Any extensions addingan additional 23 to 25 million for him is a lot better for him than playing in 2025 and praying he does not suffer a career ending injury. At 31 at him, the future guarantee would be as important as the dollars per year.

[Luvnit2]

I also feel DE is a much beigger need than DT. We only have 4 guys, but all 4 are proven contributors. They also are signed for a minimum of next 2 years. At DE, we have Trey, Ossai, Sample all on one year deals.

I am not saying if they thought Nolan was a stud and could 8 to 10 sacks a year they should pass. My thought has always been when drafting in round 1 and especially middle of round 1, grab the BPA. If it a position of huge need, that is wonderfu. But, I would hope for 1st round pick becomes a starter fairly quickly and becomes an all pro sooner than later.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-17-2025, 07:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They still have Trey Hendrickson in limbo. If they don't move him during the draft, they'll likely concede and give him a damn contract that reflects what his value is as a player. When that domino falls, however way it goes, I would expect some sort of activity in terms of free agency soon after.

Yea but if they give him a new contract, they can spread that out with some extra void years.
They shouldn't need $15+ mill of this year's money to do so.

The way the draft seems to be shaping up based on their visits, we should expect defense and probably OL early.
The other Day 2 position will go to another defensive player or probably RB if they really like someone.
I don't feel like there's anyone in this draft class that's going to make me want to go out and get their jersey (unless Tyler Warren somehow makes it as is taken).

[ERIC1]

(04-17-2025, 12:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hard not to be frustrated when a player who would be an upgrade clearly says he would love to be on your team protecting your Franchise
and the Front Office doesn't even reach out to him? Pisses me off honestly. Quit spitting in Joe Burrow's and all of our faces.

Dalton has a cool name aside from that he may not clearly be an upgrade and maybe the organization has other plans 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2025, 09:12 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea but if they give him a new contract, they can spread that out with some extra void years.
They shouldn't need $15+ mill of this year's money to do so.

The way the draft seems to be shaping up based on their visits, we should expect defense and probably OL early.
The other Day 2 position will go to another defensive player or probably RB if they really like someone.
I don't feel like there's anyone in this draft class that's going to make me want to go out and get their jersey (unless Tyler Warren somehow makes it as is taken).

That's why I said "either way it goes". If they deal him away, the team frees up $16M and is left with a huge, gaping hole to try to fill. If they sign him, they likely structure it in a way that opens up a little more usable cap space for this year.

Edit: Personally, I'm hoping that they extend him a couple more years. Like yourself, I don't see anyone in this draft class that's going to come in and give 17.5 sacks worth of contribution to the defense.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2025, 10:58 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's why I said "either way it goes". If they deal him away, the team frees up $16M and is left with a huge, gaping hole to try to fill. If they sign him, they likely structure it in a way that opens up a little more usable cap space for this year.

Edit: Personally, I'm hoping that they extend him a couple more years. Like yourself, I don't see anyone in this draft class that's going to come in and give 17.5 sacks worth of contribution to the defense.

I don't have confidence they would trade him, at least not unless it's a 1st rounder or more.
They might also try to see how he performs the first 2 months of this year and then consider trading him at the deadline if they aren't doing well, possibly resulting in a better return.

They would have needed to be more active in FA to get new DE(s) and trade him earlier if they wanted to have hopes of replacing his contributions for this season specifically.

[Luvnit2]

(04-18-2025, 11:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't have confidence they would trade him, at least not unless it's a 1st rounder or more.
They might also try to see how he performs the first 2 months of this year and then consider trading him at the deadline if they aren't doing well, possibly resulting in a better return.

They would have needed to be more active in FA to get new DE(s) and trade him earlier if they wanted to have hopes of replacing his contributions for this season specifically.

I can see the Bengals offerig to extend Trey after the draft looking something like this:

2025 - Give 8 million dollar signing bonus - 
2026 - 28 million with 16 million guaranteed
2027 - 28 million with none guaranteed

Cap hit - 2025 - No change stays at 15.8 million]
2026 - 30 million with 16 million guaranteed
2027 - 34 million and none guaranteed

In this sceanrio, if Trey keeps performing he can earm the entire contract. He gets an additional 24 million guaranteed with the extension minimum

I think this is fair as team could not extend him if they choose, then tag him for less than 28 million in 2026. If he does not sign something, he has no more guaranteed money after 2025. At 31, that is a huge risk for him. But, if he believes in himself, he can earn an addtional 64 million the next 3 years if he maxes out the contract.

I would guess Bengals would have some type of bonuses based on availability as well similar to Tee, if he misses time, he loses money.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2025, 09:18 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: Dalton has a cool name aside from that he may not clearly be an upgrade and maybe the organization has other plans 

Nah, he has played decent in the NFL, aside from that lol

[*ochocincos*]

(04-17-2025, 02:42 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The obvious answer to anyone asking that is because they need two starting guards.


Patrick hasn't played overly well for an entire season since 2021 when he played 911 snaps but 822 were at Center.
His last time playing well at Guard for a full season was 2020, when he played 939 snaps and allowed 3 sacks, 16 total pressures.
I like him for his versatility, but it's been quite a few years since he's done well as a full-time starter.

Ford has never done well as a full time starter, same with Volson.

Risner meanwhile in his entire career (87 games, 81 starts) hasn't allowed more than 4 sacks or 30 total pressures in a season.
Risner would be a safer bet for starting at one of the Guard spots than Patrick or Ford, IMO.
Happy to keep them both for versatile depth though.

Details for why I am so down on Ford...

His most snaps ever played in a season was 739, and that was his rookie year at RT with the Bills.
He allowed 7 sacks, 31 total pressures that year.


After that season, he shifted to playing Guard.
2020 - 383 offensive snaps (1/3 of a season really). 0 sacks but 15 total pressures.
2021 - 485 offensive snaps (not quite half a season). 2 sacks, 26 total pressures.
2022 - 350 offensive snaps (1/3 of a season). 3 sacks, 20 total pressures.

As a Bengal in 2023, he hardly played. 78 offensive snaps played.
Last year, he played 688 offensive snaps (about 2/3 of a season), allowing 5 sacks and 37 total pressures.

This dude has been Volson-caliber.
To expect him to be markedly better than Volson is wishful thinking.

With Patrick not having a good season at Guard since 2020 and Volson and Ford both around the 40 total pressures across a full season, it's really difficult to say either of the OG spots will have even decent pass blocking, let alone above average.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2025, 02:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Details for why I am so down on Ford...

His most snaps ever played in a season was 739, and that was his rookie year at RT with the Bills.
He allowed 7 sacks, 31 total pressures that year.


After that season, he shifted to playing Guard.
2020 - 383 offensive snaps (1/3 of a season really). 0 sacks but 15 total pressures.
2021 - 485 offensive snaps (not quite half a season). 2 sacks, 26 total pressures.
2022 - 350 offensive snaps (1/3 of a season). 3 sacks, 20 total pressures.

As a Bengal in 2023, he hardly played. 78 offensive snaps played.
Last year, he played 688 offensive snaps (about 2/3 of a season), allowing 5 sacks and 37 total pressures.

This dude has been Volson-caliber.
To expect him to be markedly better than Volson is wishful thinking.

With Patrick not having a good season at Guard since 2020 and Volson and Ford both around the 40 total pressures across a full season, it's really difficult to say either of the OG spots will have even decent pass blocking, let alone above average.

Draft Ratledge, Savanaiiaea or Mbow and add Risner after the Draft.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-18-2025, 02:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Details for why I am so down on Ford...

His most snaps ever played in a season was 739, and that was his rookie year at RT with the Bills.
He allowed 7 sacks, 31 total pressures that year.


After that season, he shifted to playing Guard.
2020 - 383 offensive snaps (1/3 of a season really). 0 sacks but 15 total pressures.
2021 - 485 offensive snaps (not quite half a season). 2 sacks, 26 total pressures.
2022 - 350 offensive snaps (1/3 of a season). 3 sacks, 20 total pressures.

As a Bengal in 2023, he hardly played. 78 offensive snaps played.
Last year, he played 688 offensive snaps (about 2/3 of a season), allowing 5 sacks and 37 total pressures.

This dude has been Volson-caliber.
To expect him to be markedly better than Volson is wishful thinking.

With Patrick not having a good season at Guard since 2020 and Volson and Ford both around the 40 total pressures across a full season, it's really difficult to say either of the OG spots will have even decent pass blocking, let alone above average.

Either the team really, really blames the previous OL coach for the lack of development/production on the interior of the OL, or they plan on making a serious draft pick or to two to rectify the situation. Honestly? All four of our Guards are backup quality at best, as things currently stand.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2025, 03:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Either the team really, really blames the previous OL coach for the lack of development/production on the interior of the OL, or they plan on making a serious draft pick or to two to rectify the situation. Honestly? All four of our Guards are backup quality at best, as things currently stand.

Yeah, it is dire at Guard unless we add at least a couple okay Guards or the new OL coach can do miracles. Not a good plan to bring in a new 
coach and put it all on his head to save the Franchise. I like Lucas Patrick better than most, but he is just solid, nothing special and that should 
not be our aspiration. Plus Patrick has problems staying healthy.

Finally saw that Cody Ford was an okay backup last year, but he is no starter and neither is Volson after last season.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-18-2025, 03:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it is dire at Guard unless we add at least a couple okay Guards or the new OL coach can do miracles. Not a good plan to bring in a new 
coach and put it all on his head to save the Franchise. I like Lucas Patrick better than most, but he is just solid, nothing special and that should 
not be our aspiration. Plus Patrick has problems staying healthy.

Finally saw that Cody Ford was an okay backup last year, but he is no starter and neither is Volson after last season.

well it is hard to address all the positions we need specially with the time and capital we have dedicated to our QB, WRs/TE..  Most teams in the league have a weak area on their oline, i feel we are solid at 3 of the 5 and Patrick has performed well enough not to be a liablity, that leaves one guard position and i think we will be drafting a guard first 3rds to take that position.