Notes from Voluntary Practice

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(8 hours ago)Housh Wrote: That Texans game was just embarrassing

Appeared to simply not know wtf he was doing

We didn't play the Texans last year.

[Clark W Griswold]

(Yesterday, 11:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I don't think any GM should give a 17th pick in the draft or those after at 49, 81, 119, 153 and 193 the keys to the castle. It is the coach's job to create competition and decide who starts. I look at the part you ignored or brushed off above, Duke is also saying to these draft picks be ready to work and earn it, we are not giving you 3 years to figure it out.

I get that and agree but it sounds like he thinks they have solid starters across the board. Now I know he’s probably not going to say everything he thinks but there are a few spots where a good rookie should be able to come in and win the job. He makes it sound like they expect all of their picks to contribute as back ups.

Just hope he doesn’t really think that it would be hard for an early round rookie G or S to come in and beat out one of their current starters.

[*pally*]

(Yesterday, 11:31 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I will say it again. He's an idiot. 

Loveland is 10x the TE Sample is. 
Barron or Johnson insta,start at CB.
Emmanwori, Starks, or Watts at S. 
Zabel or Jackson at G.
Not to mention J. Campbell at LB 

do you expect any NFL  GM to say " the guys on our roster are terrible, any draft pick can do better"

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(7 hours ago)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I get that and agree but it sounds like he thinks they have solid starters across the board.  Now I know he’s probably not going to say everything he thinks but there are a few spots where a good rookie should be able to come in and win the job.  He makes it sound like they expect all of their picks to contribute as back ups.

Just hope he doesn’t really think that it would be hard for an early round rookie G or S to come in and beat out one of their current starters.

Yep. The comments are absurd on their face and deserve to be derided. And I have done so. 

However, like you say, Tobin/ZT are doing 2 things that I do understand with their comments. 

First, they are giving their guys confidence. The fact is, we likely have more holes than can be filled with plug & play draft picks or FA's. For my money, D. Sample, Volson, Stone, Battle, Iosivas, and McPherson were all well below an acceptable starter level last year. And Pratt and Patrick just barely above. That is 6-8 spots in your starting 25 that could easily be upgraded. 7-9 if Fig is gonna be the slot. If you think Burks is an upgrade, then subtract one. If so, we should have moved Pratt and signed a starter FA with that $$. 

Anyway  the point is, some/most of those guys are gonna be starting, again, for us next year. What is the point of tearing them down publicly? No good can come of that. 

Second, because we have so many holes, and so few picks, out best move is to trade down. By publicly taking a BPA stance and saying we could take traits guys with little production, they are trying to make us a threat to take any non-QB and thus, hopefully, drive up the chances a trade offer materializes. 

If that is what is going 9n here, I am fine with it. But if he actually believes what he is saying, he's an idiot.

[lone bengal]

(Yesterday, 07:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I really like Williams. Stewart worries me, a workout warrior with a poor record of finishing in college.

I will be thrrilled if we went with top LB in the class Campbell to team with Wilson, but Williams is also a very good option to replace Hubbard.

I hope we choose defense and hope they can make contribution and impact immediately.

Williams intrigues me he doesn't have the character concerns and size concerns of guys like Pearce and Green. Plus playing the run is big you want a first round pick who can do both. Plus they say he played through an injury all year.  The size and production debate post Murphy pick has been interesting. The best pass rushers in the league tend to be bigger guys Garret, Bosa, Hendrickson, Hutchinson, Danielle Hunter even TJ Watt is big . Far as production I'd obviously feel better about a prospect who's produced in college but sometimes there ask to do different things they won't do in the NFL. For example Stewart lined up at NT sometimes at 267. Danielle Hunter finished his college career with 4.5 total sacks but has 99.5 career sacks. Travon Walker had 9.5 sacks in 3 years at Georgia but has had back to back 10 sacks seasons in the NFL. Murphy had 17.5 college sacks which wasn't bad. There's also a bunch of smaller guys with big college production who've worked out and big guys with all the traits with no production that haven't. Guess what I'm saying is I'm keeping an open mind and each case differs. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I will say this, if I'm choosing between Stewart, Williams, and Pearce, I'd take Williams.

But I don't like any of them at #17. Can't afford a miss. I'd much rather take the double (Starks, Emmanwori, Campbell, Zabel, Jackson, Harmon) than swing for the fences and miss.

[higgy100]

(7 hours ago)pally Wrote: do you expect any NFL  GM to say " the guys on our roster are terrible, any draft pick can do better"

Yep. Amazing what posters can't see and what they'll dig their teeth into. He'll die on that hill.lol

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(7 hours ago)lone bengal Wrote: Williams intrigues me he doesn't have the character concerns and size concerns of guys like Pearce and Green. Plus playing the run is big you want a first round pick who can do both. Plus they say he played through an injury all year.  The size and production debate post Murphy pick has been interesting. The best pass rushers in the league tend to be bigger guys Garret, Bosa, Hendrickson, Hutchinson, Danielle Hunter even TJ Watt is big . Far as production I'd obviously feel better about a prospect who's produced in college but sometimes there ask to do different things they won't do in the NFL. For example Stewart lined up at NT sometimes at 267. Danielle Hunter finished his college career with 4.5 total sacks but has 99.5 career sacks. Travon Walker had 9.5 sacks in 3 years at Georgia but has had back to back 10 sacks seasons in the NFL. Murphy had 17.5 college sacks which wasn't bad. There's also a bunch of smaller guys with big college production who've worked out and big guys with all the traits with no production that haven't. Guess what I'm saying is I'm keeping an open mind and each case differs. 

Yeah, I wouldn't hate it if we drafted Mykel Williams. It is Stewart who scares the crap out of me with his lack of production but as you say, even 
Danielle Hunter didn't have production in college but has been a stud pass rusher in the NFL.

[*bengalfan74*]

(4 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, I wouldn't hate it if we drafted Mykel Williams. It is Stewart who scares the crap out of me with his lack of production but as you say, even 
Danielle Hunter didn't have production in college but has been a stud pass rusher in the NFL.

I would like it if we drafted Williams and yes Stewart concerns me a bit.

And I hope M. Murphy turns it around but I'm just not willing to bank on it. The same with our 2 DT's from last draft. I feel we need to have at least 3 and probably even 4 of our draft picks be on D. Some order of DE, DT, S, LB and/or CB

We need a starting guard for sure but most all the rest defense.

[Luvnit2]

(3 hours ago)bengalfan74 Wrote: I would like it if we drafted Williams and yes Stewart concerns me a bit.

And I hope M. Murphy turns it around but I'm just not willing to bank on it. The same with our 2 DT's from last draft. I feel we need to have at least 3 and probably even 4 of our draft picks be on D. Some order of DE, DT, S, LB and/or CB

We need a starting guard for sure but most all the rest defense.

If we draft BPA at #17 versus need (unless it is the #1 need) then noone of offense or defense should be off the table.

Who do you consider BPA from this group?

Green
Campbell
Warren
Loveland
Startks
Emmianwori
Simmons
Banks
Booker
D. Jackson
Nolan
Walker
Williams

Good chance a lot of these guys are there at 17 and unlikely we will find a team to trade back since no sure fire great picks after 1st 10 to 15.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(3 hours ago)bengalfan74 Wrote: I would like it if we drafted Williams and yes Stewart concerns me a bit.

And I hope M. Murphy turns it around but I'm just not willing to bank on it. The same with our 2 DT's from last draft. I feel we need to have at least 3 and probably even 4 of our draft picks be on D. Some order of DE, DT, S, LB and/or CB

We need a starting guard for sure but most all the rest defense.

Cannot bank on Murphy turning around that is for sure. I think he will be much better this season, but how much better is the question?

With Kris Jenkins and McKinnley Jackson I actually have more confidence, especially Kris. But yeah, we need this draft to be mostly Defense.

We need pass rushers badly.

[Luvnit2]

(2 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cannot bank on Murphy turning around that is for sure. I think he will be much better this season, but how much better is the question?

With Kris Jenkins and McKinnley Jackson I actually have more confidence, especially Kris. But yeah, we need this draft to be mostly Defense.

We need pass rushers badly.

I am curious do you think Jenkins can be a 4 to 8 sack DT in 2025?

We still have Trey, he i not going anywhere so if he stays healthy likely a minimum 12 to 15 sack guy. We really got very little pressure or sacks from DT or LDE in 2024, so I am hopeful we do draft a DE (also because this may be Trey's last year here), but I am not sure DT is the top priority.

Uograde DE and hopefully Jenkins can improve upon his 3 sacks and 31 tackles. 

[SunsetBengal]

(3 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: If we draft BPA at #17 versus need (unless it is the #1 need) then noone of offense or defense should be off the table.

Who do you consider BPA from this group?

Green
Campbell
Warren
Loveland
Startks
Emmianwori
Simmons
Banks
Booker
D. Jackson
Nolan
Walker
Williams

Good chance a lot of these guys are there at 17 and unlikely we will find a team to trade back since no sure fire great picks after 1st 10 to 15.

Warren is the BPA of that group. 

[Joelist]

I went and pulled this back up from a past post:

I got curious and took a look at the defensive sack numbers last season. Per Pro Football Reference 36 total sacks and - interestingly - 18 of them after Lou changed the defense. BJ Hill had 3, Ossai 4, Jenkins 2, Jackson 1, Trey 6 with the other 2 scattered amongst safety and LB. Interesting.

The above numbers were in 6 games. So we got 6 sacks off of DT in the last 6 games. With the lack of experience there this could be the rookies starting to blossom as 3 of the 6 were from them. We'll have to see - we did not take bums at DT last draft. Jenkins had a Round 2 grade and Jackson was graded by some where we took him.

[Luvnit2]

(1 hour ago)Joelist Wrote: I went and pulled this back up from a past post:

I got curious and took a look at the defensive sack numbers last season. Per Pro Football Reference 36 total sacks and - interestingly - 18 of them after Lou changed the defense. BJ Hill had 3, Ossai 4, Jenkins 2, Jackson 1, Trey 6 with the other 2 scattered amongst safety and LB. Interesting.

The above numbers were in 6 games. So we got 6 sacks off of DT in the last 6 games. With the lack of experience there this could be the rookies starting to blossom as 3 of the 6 were from them. We'll have to see - we did not take bums at DT last draft. Jenkins had a Round 2 grade and Jackson was graded by some where we took him.

When did Hubbard lose his job to Ossai? Based on these stats, once Ossai went from part time to full time his numbers increased a ton as he had 4 of his 5 the last 6 games.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals-team-stats?category=defense&season=2024&seasonType=reg&sort=def_sck&sortOrder=desc

We also had no sacks in week 18 against Steelers. Ossai only had 1 sack in first 11 games so he definitely produced later in the year.

One more intersting fact. Ossai had 26 tackles playing part time and 20 assists, Trey playing fiulltime (3 down DE) had only 33 tackles and 16 assists. Overall Ossai must be better against the run than Trey.
In 14 games Hubbard had 2 sacks, 25 tackles and 16 assist. Hubbard used to be our best at holding the edge, yet Ossai was better in 2024.

Maybe the guy we are overlooking is Ossai to break out in 2025 based on last year. Naybe Murphy is where Ossai was in 2023 so longer way to go be a good DE.

[NATI BENGALS]

Jenkins looked a little chunky and Cedric Johnson looked like a lightweight. I’m hoping Jenkins was told to add weight and Johnson told to lose some.

I like that they do this first batch of OTAs right before the draft. Let them get eyes on and prepare for something maybe they didn’t expect.

Either way after seeing those pics idk… I was wanting to try and reinforce the OL and upgrade G and swing tackle. But now I think I’d be cool with going all in on defense with every pick.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(1 hour ago)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Jenkins looked a little chunky and Cedric Johnson looked like a lightweight. I’m hoping Jenkins was told to add weight and Johnson told to lose some.

I like that they do this first batch of OTAs right before the draft. Let them get eyes on and prepare for something maybe they didn’t expect.

Either way after seeing those pics idk… I was wanting to try and reinforce the OL and upgrade G and swing tackle. But now I think I’d be cool with going all in on defense with every pick.

Something gotta be reversed here lol.

And Ced looked fine to me: McKinnley looked chunky, but he's a 340+ pound NT, they'll look that big as a rule.