Is Shemar holding out?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 04:01 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Jihaad Campbell signed a 4 year $14,903,565 dollar contract with a signing bonus of $7,478,956 making his signing bonus 50% of his total contract

By comparison last year

Amarius Mims signed a 4 year $15,371,558 dollar contract with a signing bonus of $7,999,316 making his signing bonus 52% of his total contract

The total dollar amounts are pretty close

You're comparing a 18th overall pick to a 31st overall pick. That's apples to oranges.

The 2023 31st overall pick got 47.4% as a signing bonus. (So the Eagles paid more.)
The 2024 18th overall pick got 54.5% as a signing bonus. (So the Bengals paid less.)

The 2022 31st overall pick got 47.3%... so again, it's pretty consistent that the Eagles actually paid about 5% more to Campbell.


There's also the fact that while signing bonuses are guaranteed the second they sign, language can be put in the deal so that the actual money can be paid out at different times which makes a huge difference if you're getting $3m now and $5m in 18 months vs getting $8m now.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 04:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for this TLL. I honestly didn't know this as I never went to college. That is BS athletes not being able to get a job.

Not cool the folks making money off of the athletes as well. You changed my mind on this except for the point TJ528 was making about 
seeing more athletes having character issues and not needing the money in the future though.

Yeah, before NIL they weren't even able to get a summer job flipping burgers. They couldn't accept any gifts from anyone like a free tattoo (Terrell Pryor got a 5 game suspension for that) or a free beer or a taco on the house or something. All things that every other student could accept if offered.

That's why the Supreme Court ruled they way they did because in reality athletes were being restricted harsher than every other student and NIL is just a product of them now having to treat all students equally.

- - - - - -

I don't see how talented folks not needing the money is a bad thing.

A small fraction of football players are ever going to make it in the NFL. Now some more people who grew up with no money and, despite being talented, have no real shot at the NFL will have a chance to make some life changing money. Or some guys who could have made it to the NFL but their bodies absolutely destroyed by 4 years of NCAA football or one devastating injury to where they can't keep playing now won't be leaving penniless.

Probably will be some character issues, but there's always been. That's not enough of a reason to pay coaches millions of dollars, for colleges to make tens of millions of dollars in profit each, and all the broadcasting and sponsor companies to make millions and/or billions of dollars while the athletes who actually create the product get at best a piece of overprice paper.

[BFritz21]

(Yesterday, 04:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for this TLL. I honestly didn't know this as I never went to college. That is BS athletes not being able to get a job.

Not cool the folks making money off of the athletes as well. You changed my mind on this except for the point TJ528 was making about 
seeing more athletes having character issues and not needing the money in the future though.

I agree but I guess what they're worried about is them getting overpaid for easy jobs that they might not even have to show up for.

Maybe getting overtipped as a waiter or bartender could be a perceived problem, but don't they have to share tips with other servers?

A big problem I see with Shemar holding out is that I don't think he has much leverage because, yes, we need him, but next year's class is loaded with edge rushers, so no chance he gets selected this high again, especially with sitting out a year, and other teams might take him completely off their boards to avoid any drama.

[*bfine32*]

(Yesterday, 04:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're comparing a 18th overall pick to a 31st overall pick. That's apples to oranges.

The 2023 31st overall pick got 47.4% as a signing bonus. (So the Eagles paid more.)
The 2024 18th overall pick got 54.5% as a signing bonus. (So the Bengals paid less.)

The 2022 31st overall pick got 47.3%... so again, it's pretty consistent that the Eagles actually paid about 5% more to Campbell.


There's also the fact that while signing bonuses are guaranteed the second they sign, language can be put in the deal so that the actual money can be paid out at different times which makes a huge difference if you're getting $3m now and $5m in 18 months vs getting $8m now.

54% of $15.4Mil is less than 47% of $14.9MIL

[TJ528]

(Yesterday, 05:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree but I guess what they're worried about is them getting overpaid for easy jobs that they might not even have to show up for.

Maybe getting overtipped as a waiter or bartender could be a perceived problem, but don't they have to share tips with other servers?

A big problem I see with Shemar holding out is that I don't think he has much leverage because, yes, we need him, but next year's class is loaded with edge rushers, so no chance he gets selected this high again, especially with sitting out a year, and other teams might take him completely off their boards to avoid any drama.

next year's class is loaded with edge rushers, so no chance he gets selected this high again, especially with sitting out a year, and other teams might take him completely off their boards to avoid any drama.


This here is the biggest issue Stewart has IMO.  Next years class is loaded.  All your doing right now is pissing off the front office, probably putting yourself in the dog house with the coaches by opening your big mouth, and causing the fan base to turn on you.  I think eventually Stewart signs.  However, he did himself no favors by being the only unsigned rookie to sit out mini camp and all other OTA's.  

[Bengalitis]

(06-11-2025, 02:19 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I might be wrong, but I think it's like Week 9 of the season.  It used to be the same date as when you had to sign your tag and report without losing a year of service.

If it goes that long and the deadline passes he will go back into the draft next year.  I can only remember 1 time it happened off the top of my head:

1990 Craig Erickson drafted by the Eagles and then went back into the draft and was drafted by the Bucs.

week 9??!!? that's too far out.. wow, this needs to be fixed if true. I thought thats why they kinda had a template already how much drafted players get paid in general....

but if I was him, I would also wait as much as possible, preserve the body from injury... edge players have just 1 goal, not much you can teach them new things.

[ERIC1]

(06-12-2025, 08:09 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: idolatry is bad.. it'll take more than Burrow to have a fun year...

The team has made the necessary coaching changes, acquired players in FA and the draft

[ERIC1]

(Yesterday, 12:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I getcha Wyche. Stewart wasn't supposed to be a character concern before we drafted him though. This clause seems to have pushed him into
being one, cause yeah, even I am souring on him from what he said and him leaving on the last day of mandatories. I like the player, he has all 
the intangibles that you cannot teach up. But can you teach up a knucklehead is the question?

I thought James Pearce and Mike Green were the character concerns, at least that was their knock. Why Draft Stewart if he is one as well?

..I thought stewart was well spoken and respectful

[ERIC1]

(06-12-2025, 08:10 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: That's a big red flag to me.  The guy just got drafted a month and a half ago and he is going to the media slamming the Bengals organization because he doesnt like it the Bengals want to be protected from Stewarts off the field behavior?  This guy is going to be a locker room cancer if he doesnt like the way something is going.  Watch and see. 

Stewart came across as well spoken and respectful...lol@ cancer

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 05:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree but I guess what they're worried about is them getting overpaid for easy jobs that they might not even have to show up for.

Maybe getting overtipped as a waiter or bartender could be a perceived problem, but don't they have to share tips with other servers?

A big problem I see with Shemar holding out is that I don't think he has much leverage because, yes, we need him, but next year's class is loaded with edge rushers, so no chance he gets selected this high again, especially with sitting out a year, and other teams might take him completely off their boards to avoid any drama.

I think the Bengals have a concern of Stewart (or any player they have concern with) may do something on or off the field that causes them to miss time aside from injury that they deem as "stupid" and want to put this clause in to help the individual think more about how their actions have consequences.

I have to think Burton last year may have impacted their decision into this, but I do wonder why this clause is being pushed for Stewart but not for other draft picks, or possibly it was and the other draft picks just signed anyway.

[BFritz21]

(Yesterday, 05:07 PM)TJ528 Wrote: This here is the biggest issue Stewart has IMO.  Next years class is loaded.  All your doing right now is pissing off the front office, probably putting yourself in the dog house with the coaches by opening your big mouth, and causing the fan base to turn on you.  I think eventually Stewart signs.  However, he did himself no favors by being the only unsigned rookie to sit out mini camp and all other OTA's.  

With his teammates too, which can be just as bad for future contracts because other teams won't want a cancer, especially if this isn't unusual for other teams to have in their contracts, and it will impact team camaraderie.

How are these kids this stupid to not sign things that make them millionaires just by playing a game and being decent human beings?

[Bengalitis]

(Yesterday, 05:10 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: The team has made the necessary coaching changes, acquired players in FA  and the draft

I know, that is exciting.. let's hope for the best and prep for the worst.

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 05:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: With his teammates too, which can be just as bad for future contracts because other teams won't want a cancer, especially if this isn't unusual for other teams to have in their contracts, and it will impact team camaraderie.

How are these kids this stupid to not sign things that make them millionaires just by playing a game and being decent human beings?

Because the NIL now makes them millionaires in college, so getting that first contract in the NFL isn't as big of a deal financially compared to how it used to be.

I don't understand how this pisses off Stewart's teammates though.
No one on the Bengals really knows Stewart much at all, so there likely isn't any real attachment there yet.

If anything, Stewart holding out may drive more players to do the same if the Bengals or another team tries to put that clause into their next contract, so it may be a positive for the teammates.

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 05:10 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: The team has made the necessary coaching changes, acquired players in FA  and the draft

But were they GOOD coaching changes, added players in FA, and players drafted?
Time will only tell, but it wasn't exactly an offseason to get overly hyped about, especially on the FA front.

[SouthernFan]

If what Dehner says is true “It is my understanding they're offering the same language in this clause as the majority of first-round contracts and, for reference, have offered the exact language of the pick before (Walter Nolen) and after (Grey Zabel).”, then Stewart does not have a leg to stand on. I’m more apt to believe Dehner than a player’s agent. It doesn’t matter what the team has done in the past. In fact we should be praising the FO for trying to catch up to the rest of the league in contract language.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 05:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think the Bengals have a concern of Stewart (or any player they have concern with) may do something on or off the field that causes them to miss time aside from injury that they deem as "stupid" and want to put this clause in to help the individual think more about how their actions have consequences.

I have to think Burton last year may have impacted their decision into this, but I do wonder why this clause is being pushed for Stewart but not for other draft picks, or possibly it was and the other draft picks just signed anyway.

My only concern with the language is situations right now with Trey or last year with Chase. Are they trying to limit a players leverage even more? 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 04:53 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, before NIL they weren't even able to get a summer job flipping burgers. They couldn't accept any gifts from anyone like a free tattoo (Terrell Pryor got a 5 game suspension for that) or a free beer or a taco on the house or something. All things that every other student could accept if offered.

That's why the Supreme Court ruled they way they did because in reality athletes were being restricted harsher than every other student and NIL is just a product of them now having to treat all students equally.

- - - - - -

I don't see how talented folks not needing the money is a bad thing.

A small fraction of football players are ever going to make it in the NFL. Now some more people who grew up with no money and, despite being talented, have no real shot at the NFL will have a chance to make some life changing money. Or some guys who could have made it to the NFL but their bodies absolutely destroyed by 4 years of NCAA football or one devastating injury to where they can't keep playing now won't be leaving penniless.

Probably will be some character issues, but there's always been. That's not enough of a reason to pay coaches millions of dollars, for colleges to make tens of millions of dollars in profit each, and all the broadcasting and sponsor companies to make millions and/or billions of dollars while the athletes who actually create the product get at best a piece of overprice paper.

Everything you say here makes complete sense. Couldn't believe I was so wrong on this issue. Thanks for correcting me brother.

[007BengalsFan]

(Yesterday, 04:34 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're comparing a 18th overall pick to a 31st overall pick. That's apples to oranges.

The 2023 31st overall pick got 47.4% as a signing bonus. (So the Eagles paid more.)
The 2024 18th overall pick got 54.5% as a signing bonus. (So the Bengals paid less.)

The 2022 31st overall pick got 47.3%... so again, it's pretty consistent that the Eagles actually paid about 5% more to Campbell.


There's also the fact that while signing bonuses are guaranteed the second they sign, language can be put in the deal so that the actual money can be paid out at different times which makes a huge difference if you're getting $3m now and $5m in 18 months vs getting $8m now.

I compared what Mims got last year because one of Stewart's agent talking points he leaked to the media was Mims didnt have that clause in his contract and other guys that do have it in their contract are getting paid alot more upfront.  Philadelphia is one of the teams that is reported to have that clause in their contracts and Campbell did not get paid more upfront.   Yes Campbell was drafted lower in the 1st so the comparison isnt 100% but you are comparing Grey Zabel this year to Mims last year and we dont know if Seattle has the off field clause in his contract or if they simply paid more guaranteed money because that's the way they do business or if every team is paying more guaranteed money this year so that comparison isnt 100% either.  

Dallas Turner at pick #17 last year got 52.5% of his contract as a signing bonus.  You can almost certainly expect if the Bengals gave Mims 52% at #18 and Dallas Turner got paid 52.5% at #17 the Bengals are offering at least 52.5% to Stewart at #17 this year.   Grey Zabel this year at #18 is 54.5%.   You are looking at a different of maybe 2% or perhaps a little more.    Stewart slotting in between Nolen at #16 and Zabel at #18 would be a 4 year contract of roughly $18,919,505.   Using these numbers a 2% difference in signing bonus on an 18,919,505 contract would be an additional $378,390.  Are you going to tell me Stewart is bashing the Bengals organization, leaving camp early because he is mad the Bengals didnt offer him a 54.5% signing bonus like Zabel which would only be a $378,390 difference on an $18,919,505 contract?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 05:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I agree but I guess what they're worried about is them getting overpaid for easy jobs that they might not even have to show up for.

Maybe getting overtipped as a waiter or bartender could be a perceived problem, but don't they have to share tips with other servers?

A big problem I see with Shemar holding out is that I don't think he has much leverage because, yes, we need him, but next year's class is loaded with edge rushers, so no chance he gets selected this high again, especially with sitting out a year, and other teams might take him completely off their boards to avoid any drama.

Good points Brad and yeah, this isn't in anyone's best interest especially Shemar's. Might be another time where an agent gives the wrong advice.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 05:12 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: ..I thought stewart was well spoken and respectful

Well spoken maybe, but he pretty much just cut down the org that drafted him. He just should of kept that part in his head even if he is right.