Is Shemar holding out?

[George Cantstandya]

(Yesterday, 09:00 PM)Nepa Wrote: I trust your analysis, George. Your typically spot on in finding and enunciating the rules. But the ESPN report (link below), as written, gives another impression: "Under the current collective bargaining agreement between the NFL Players Association and the NFL, the team that drafted a player retains their rights through the following year's draft."

The wording of "through the following year's draft" gives the impression the Bengals would retain the rights through the draft. But, what you have stated makes a lot more sense.


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/45777024/still-unsigned-bengals-rookie-shemar-stewart-report

Thanks I try my best to make sense of a lot of the rules but they certainly can be confusing at times.  That's why they have all those lawyers working on such things and also probably why the rules and wording can be confusing at times.  :)

Here is the quote directly from the CBA:

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/website/PDFs/CBA/March-15-2020-NFL-NFLPA-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement-Final-Executed-Copy.pdf

Quote:If a Drafted Rookie has not signed a Player Contract during the period from the date of such Draft to the thirtieth day prior to the first game of the regular season: (i) the Club that drafted the player may not thereafter trade to another Club either its exclusive negotiating rights to such player or any Player Contract that it signs with such player for the player’s initial League Year; and (ii) the Club that drafted the player is the only Club with which the player may sign a Player Contract until the day of the Draft in the subsequent League Year, at which time such player is eligible to be drafted in the subsequent League Year’s Draft by any Club except the Club that drafted him in the initial Draft.   (After the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, the player and the Club may sign a Player Contract only for future League Year(s)).

Edit:  I just looked at the ESPN article.  It seems they are talking about a hypothetical situation where Stewart would return to play in college this year.  In that case yes the language in the CBA states the Bengals would still have his rights next year.  But it has already been stated he isn't returning to college and it is also against NCAA policy so he would likely have to win a legal contest to return to college.  Here is what the CBA says about the college thing:

Quote:If any college football player who becomes eligible for the Draft prior to exhausting his college football eligibility through participation is drafted by an NFL Club, and returns to college, the drafting Club’s exclusive right to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with such player shall continue through the date of the Draft that follows the last season in which the player was eligible to participate in college football, and thereafter the player shall be treated and the Club shall have such exclusive rights as if he were drafted in such Draft by such Club (or assignee Club).

I didn't address that earlier because as stated above it has been claimed he is not returning to college and NCAA regulations do not allow it in his case.  Sorry for any confusion. 

[Nepa]

That's very clear, George. Thank you. And thank for finding and reporting the CBA language.

[sandwedge]

Why wouldn't #17 be slotted?

[007BengalsFan]

(Yesterday, 10:43 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Why wouldn't  #17 be slotted?

It would be slotted so it's impossible his contract would be less than Dallas Turner's.  It's just more BS by Stewart's agent.  He keeps changing the excuses he feeds to the gullible media and some of our fans eat it up like its gospel.  

Remember all this stuff started when Stewarts agent initially tried to claim the Bengals were doing something no other team in the NFL was doing with their contract voiding guarantees.  Many fans got upset because they believed the nonsense Stewart's agent was pushing.  It then comes out many other teams already had this in their contracts and the Bengals were just now catching up with the rest of the NFL and putting the clause in their contracts too.  Its one different claim after another from Stewarts agent.  Stewart doesnt want to play football, he wants to make excuses and argue about nonsensical claims

[sandwedge]

(Yesterday, 11:22 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: It would be slotted so it's impossible his contract would be less than Dallas Turner's.  It's just more BS by Stewart's agent.  He keeps changing the excuses he feeds to the gullible media and some of our fans eat it up like its gospel.  

Remember all this stuff started when Stewarts agent initially tried to claim the Bengals were doing something no other team in the NFL was doing with their contract voiding guarantees.  Many fans got upset because they believed the nonsense Stewart's agent was pushing.  It then comes out many other teams already had this in their contracts and the Bengals were just now catching up with the rest of the NFL and putting the clause in their contracts too.  Its one different claim after another from Stewarts agent.  Stewart doesnt want to play football, he wants to make excuses and argue about nonsensical claims

It's exactly what I was thinking. It's pretty much a no brainer, the money amount. They seem to come up with more excuses like you said. I have maintained the notion since draft night, he doesn't want to be here.

[Essex Johnson]

(Yesterday, 11:48 PM)sandwedge Wrote: It's exactly what I was thinking. It's pretty much a no brainer, the money amount. They seem to come up with more excuses like you said. I have maintained the notion since draft night, he doesn't want to be here.

If he does not want to play here why come to meetings and be working out. Maybe he does not want to be on a team that he feels is treating him differently than previous 1st rounders. Though I might not agree with his hold out, he has been consistent about how he wont sign the contract with that language, besides if he did not want be play here , he could have done what a few others I believe have done in the past ask for a trade after being drafted.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 11:22 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: It would be slotted so it's impossible his contract would be less than Dallas Turner's.  It's just more BS by Stewart's agent.  He keeps changing the excuses he feeds to the gullible media and some of our fans eat it up like its gospel.  

Remember all this stuff started when Stewarts agent initially tried to claim the Bengals were doing something no other team in the NFL was doing with their contract voiding guarantees.  Many fans got upset because they believed the nonsense Stewart's agent was pushing.  It then comes out many other teams already had this in their contracts and the Bengals were just now catching up with the rest of the NFL and putting the clause in their contracts too.  Its one different claim after another from Stewarts agent.  Stewart doesnt want to play football, he wants to make excuses and argue about nonsensical claims

I'm not sure any of this gibberish is accurate. I'm not saying the agent is without fault he obviously let some of his frustrations dealing with the Bengals be fed to Stewart. 
But let's not make up lies about him. What I've heard from him has been pretty consistent not that I've heard a ton. But they never said it was new language they said new language for the Bengals and for the league was assumed. Then hes been saying he just wants a concession to sign with that language being the first one to do it with the Bengals. He's even said that concession could be the payout timing of the signing bonus. We paid Mims 50% at signing 50% in December so paying 100% at signing appears to get him signed. Seems simple to me so I blame the Bengals.

[*bfine32*]

(9 hours ago)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I'm not sure any of this gibberish is accurate. I'm not saying the agent is without fault he obviously let some of his frustrations dealing with the Bengals be fed to Stewart. 
But let's not make up lies about him. What I've heard from him has been pretty consistent not that I've heard a ton. But they never said it was new language they said new language for the Bengals and for the league was assumed. Then hes been saying he just wants a concession to sign with that language being the first one to do it with the Bengals. He's even said that concession could be the payout timing of the signing bonus. We paid Mims 50% at signing 50% in December so paying 100% at signing appears to get him signed. Seems simple to me so I blame the Bengals.

So he's saying I'll sign a contract that states you can part ways with me if I pull a "Judkins", but you have to pay me first? Why put the language in then? 

[XsandOs]

(7 hours ago)bfine32 Wrote: So he's saying I'll sign a contract that states you can part ways with me if I pull a "Judkins", but you have to pay me first? Why put the language in then? 

Signing bonus will be about half of the total guaranteed contract. 

I am assuming the language protects the Team for any guaranteed money that is not paid out, as well as potentially opening the door for claw-back of portion of the signing bonus, depending on when the infraction occurs. 

[sandwedge]

(Today, 03:30 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: If he does not want to play here why come to meetings and be working out. Maybe he does not want to be on a team that he feels is treating him differently than previous 1st rounders. Though I might not agree with his hold out, he has been consistent about how he wont sign the contract with that language, besides if he did not want be play here , he could have done what a few others I believe have done in the past ask for a trade after being drafted.

I don't believe anybody has asked to be traded after the draft, it has been before the draft. Usually it's from top draft choices, the ones that actually produce in college, stating they won't play for so and so teams. 
So when the Bengals do get with the program and start doing what the rest, now its a bad thing? 
Who TF bad mouths their future employer during a press conference like he did? He hasn't done a damn thing to earn that right.

[coachmcneil71]

(7 hours ago)bfine32 Wrote: So he's saying I'll sign a contract that states you can part ways with me if I pull a "Judkins", but you have to pay me first? Why put the language in then? 

This Stewart thing is festering! 

Not to get off topic here, and if I remember correctly we both held the same space regarding Mixon, but has there been any hard evidence or footage released of this Judkins situation? 

[Joelist]

This whole thing has gotten silly. At first most sided with Stewart but as time has gone on and Stewart and his agent kept publicly slamming the team things started to shift because even anti-FO fans recognize this is a poor negotiating technique. Then came the revelation that the clause is not something new to the NFL (contrary to Stewart's agent assertion) and the next phase has been Stewart's camp changing its story over and over.

Really Stewart needs to fire this goober agent and get himself a legit pro sports agent. If he changed agents I imagine this gets done fast.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(5 hours ago)Joelist Wrote: Really Stewart needs to fire this goober agent and get himself a legit pro sports agent. If he changed agents I imagine this gets done fast.

If we add up every agent that someone, at some time on this board, has blamed for clashes with the Bengals FO... there'd be no agents left that players could change to according to this board.

Tee's agent, Bates's agent, Whit's agent, Dunlap's agent, Carson's agent, Andre's agent, Housh's agent, Trey's agent, Stewart's agent, etc, etc, etc.... a freaking mountain of agents somehow are all the problem with the one consistent being the Bengals FO.

[Timanky12]

(4 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

If we add up every agent that someone, at some time on this board, has blamed for clashes with the Bengals FO... there'd be no agents left that players could change to according to this board.

Tee's agent, Bates's agent, Whit's agent, Dunlap's agent, Carson's agent, Andre's agent, Housh's agent, Trey's agent, Stewart's agent, etc, etc, etc.... a freaking mountain of agents somehow are all the problem with the one consistent being the Bengals FO.

That’s a big bingo, stop blaming the every one else for our disfunction and ineptitude.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(4 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

If we add up every agent that someone, at some time on this board, has blamed for clashes with the Bengals FO... there'd be no agents left that players could change to according to this board.

Tee's agent, Bates's agent, Whit's agent, Dunlap's agent, Carson's agent, Andre's agent, Housh's agent, Trey's agent, Stewart's agent, etc, etc, etc.... a freaking mountain of agents somehow are all the problem with the one consistent being the Bengals FO.

Hey, Ja'Marr's agent is decent lol

[ERIC1]

(07-04-2025, 07:07 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: He will be in training camp..But I will let the scouting department know of your concerns...Happy 4th

(4 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

If we add up every agent that someone, at some time on this board, has blamed for clashes with the Bengals FO... there'd be no agents left that players could change to according to this board.

Tee's agent, Bates's agent, Whit's agent, Dunlap's agent, Carson's agent, Andre's agent, Housh's agent, Trey's agent, Stewart's agent, etc, etc, etc.... a freaking mountain of agents somehow are all the problem with the one consistent being the Bengals FO.

No offense intended..but do you actually follow football..this is not a bengals thing..it happens all over the NFL..all the time

[*bfine32*]

(6 hours ago)XsandOs Wrote: Signing bonus will be about half of the total guaranteed contract. 

I am assuming the language protects the Team for any guaranteed money that is not paid out, as well as potentially opening the door for claw-back of portion of the signing bonus, depending on when the infraction occurs. 

Thanks, not being in Cincy, all I hear is what the National media reports, so it's not been much. I've also learned you have to take what many here say with a grain of salt. There are those who dislike the FO and those who dislike Stew, and their opinion will lean in that direction. I in the rare group who like both. 

I doubt any of us know the complete story, and I just hope they sign dude soon or make a statement by bringing in a Smith or Clowney. Because I've said before, this is a player who can't afford to miss one day of practice.

[*bfine32*]

(4 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

If we add up every agent that someone, at some time on this board, has blamed for clashes with the Bengals FO... there'd be no agents left that players could change to according to this board.

Tee's agent, Bates's agent, Whit's agent, Dunlap's agent, Carson's agent, Andre's agent, Housh's agent, Trey's agent, Stewart's agent, etc, etc, etc.... a freaking mountain of agents somehow are all the problem with the one consistent being the Bengals FO.

What is the consistent for every player signing with New England? 

[Joelist]

(4 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

If we add up every agent that someone, at some time on this board, has blamed for clashes with the Bengals FO... there'd be no agents left that players could change to according to this board.

Tee's agent, Bates's agent, Whit's agent, Dunlap's agent, Carson's agent, Andre's agent, Housh's agent, Trey's agent, Stewart's agent, etc, etc, etc.... a freaking mountain of agents somehow are all the problem with the one consistent being the Bengals FO.

I am far from alone in calling out Stewart and his idiot agent here. You do remember some teams graded Stewart down on their boards because of this agent right? Or that Zay Flowers had this exact agent then fired him - after which he got the contract? Of all those others you listed we know Trey's agent tried to get an extension when the team could not legally give one, and that Tee fired Mulugheta and Shazam - big extension. 

[Essex Johnson]

(6 hours ago)sandwedge Wrote: I don't believe anybody has asked to be traded after the draft, it has been before the draft. Usually it's from top draft choices, the ones that actually produce in college, stating they won't play for so and so teams. 
So when the Bengals do get with the program and start doing what the rest, now its a bad thing? 
Who TF bad mouths their future employer during a press conference like he did? He hasn't done a damn thing to earn that right.

im not saying i agree with everything he has done but i think it  is a leap that some say he does not want to play for bengals and ive read nothing to support that is all.