Pratt Gone

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-09-2025, 05:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We both forgot about Giles-Harris. He is more of a ST/Bachie replacement than a frontline guy, but still technically an addition at LB. 

If you exclude the guys we re-signed or extended, we brought in 11 new guys (not counting UDFA's). 5 FA's & 6 picks. 

4 LBs: Burks, Giles-Harris, Knight, Carter
3 OGs: Patrick, Fairchild, Rivers (OG/OT) 
2 RBs: Perine, Brooks 
1 NT/DT: Slaton
1 DE: Stewart

Yeah, I forgot about Giles-Harris good call. I like the additions of all these guys and tend to think they very underrated around here.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-10-2025, 09:40 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are not wrong. 

We also lost depth at CB (Hilton), S (Bell), OT (Brown), and TE (All injury). I know Holton & Bell clearly had lost a step, but they still graded out better than any other CB & S we have, respectively. Which is saying something. 

Clearly, on D we feel that the change in scheme/coaches + continued development of our younger guys + a better health will make a significant improvement. We did get LB help (Burks, Knight, Carter, Giles-Harris), 1T help (Slaton) & Stewart. Plus bringing back BJ, Ossai, & Sample. 

But we really need the DBs to play much better under Golden. And Hill & Turner being healthy should help. But CTB, D. Hill, Turner, Battle, Jenkins, Jackson, Murphy, and Ossai leveling up & Stone bouncing back is what we are counting on.

I think it is *mostly* too optimistic, but not crazy. And if we had paired the bounce back/level up strategy on D with a more agfressive upgrades to the IOL I'd be way more optimistic. But we, intentionally in my opinion, chose not no max cap space on the Chase/Tee deals ($11 mil), chose not to restructure Burow, even though he offered ($19 mil), and kept a couple guys around when cutting them instead of restructuring could have bought a frontline player ($7 mil for Moss/Volson). 

Now, given the cash constraints the Brown family has, doing all 3 was always unlikely. But even 1 or 1.5 could have made a big difference. 

Calais Campbell ($6 mil cap) and Teven Jenkins ($2.3 mil) were had for just over $8 mil combined. Throw in Risner/Hernandez for another $4-5 mil and we could have taken Watts or Winston Rd 3. 

I am disappointed but not surprised. It is who the Brown family are. Ownership is an anchor to our title aspirations. It is just a fact. And even with the window for Trey/Burrow/Chase slipping away, they still cannot (or will not) do any better. 

I guess there is still some time. And enough cap to get Trey done plus maybe one more vet move. But our $23 mil or so in cap is gonna get eaten up by a Trey deal. 

Agree with your above.

To me, this signals the FO is putting a lot on the coaches' shoulders, saying, "OK, we got rid of the guys believed to not be coaching these players up correctly. It's now on Taylor and these new coaches to get the OL and defense operating properly."

I sense a changing of the guard in a year or two if the team doesn't go (deep) into the playoffs this year or next.
The only way I see there being more runway given is if a really key injury happens, which would have to be to the likes of Burrow, Chase, Hendrickson, or 1-2 of the mainstays on OL.

[jj22]

Burrow didn't seem happy to see Pratt go. And why would he. He knows the importance of playmakers.

He knows you can have hall of fame players on both sides of the ball as we did the last two eras before him with none of those great talented players able to play big in big games. With all due respect to the AJ Greens, Atkins, Chads, TJ's, Reggie's, Burficts, Jones, Dunlaps, Whits etc of the past generations.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 12:23 PM)jj22 Wrote: Burrow didn't seem happy to see Pratt go. And why would he. He knows the importance of playmakers.

He knows you can have hall of fame players on both sides of the ball as we did the last two eras before him with none of those great talented players able to play big in big games. With all due respect to the AJ Greens, Atkins, Chads, TJ's, Reggie's, Burficts, Jones, Dunlaps, Whits etc of the past generations.

Joe will be happy once Trey and Shemar are signed and the Defense is actually tackling well and making stops to win games pretty sure.

This wasn't happening with Pratt late in games last year where Offenses just went down the field and kept scoring enough to beat Joe.

[jj22]

(Yesterday, 12:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Joe will be happy once Trey and Shemar are signed and the Defense is actually tackling well and making stops to win games pretty sure.

This wasn't happening with Pratt late in games last year where Offenses just went down the field and kept scoring enough to beat Joe.

This wasn't happening with anyone on D last season. Cutting Pratt doesn't mean everyone is suddenly going to tackle....

Besides we had top 10 defenses in the last two eras. To go with top 10 offenses. That doesn't get you playoff wins if players can't play big in big games. We see that with the Ravens and Bills top units on both sides of the ball. 

[Bengalitis]

(Yesterday, 12:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This wasn't happening with Pratt late in games last year where Offenses just went down the field and kept scoring enough to beat Joe.

I'm pretty sure Pratt could say the same about our offense laying eggs with...... wait for it.. Burrow, Teeggins and Chase, along with Brown at the helm to score some points to get us some more wins..  I mean, how much more can you add to that to make it a 30+ scoring machine per game. Can't say the same for the D.

Pratt did his job in a decimated, untalented defense. I don't expect the D to be much better this season, hope I'm wrong but.. yeah.. no.

[jj22]

The D playing better is one thing. The D having enough big game players to get through the playoff's is another thing. We don't know and won't know until that time comes. 

What I do know is it isn't easy to find these players and we as fans shouldn't be so dismissive of these players given what we see every year in the AFC and what we've seen in prior era's from the Bengals that were "loaded" with talent but all buckled under the pressure of bright lights.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 01:30 PM)jj22 Wrote: This wasn't happening with anyone on D last season. Cutting Pratt doesn't mean everyone is suddenly going to tackle....

Besides we had top 10 defenses in the last two eras. To go with top 10 offenses. That doesn't get you playoff wins if players can't play big in big games. We see that with the Ravens and Bills top units on both sides of the ball. 

What? Our Defense couldn't tackle for shit last year under Lou and Pratt was one of the prime suspects game after game. You say this didn't
happen to anyone on D last season? What Defense were you even watching? Lou always relied on interceptions or big plays to win games, this
just isn't a good plan. Start with the basics and the big plays will come. At least if you tackle well you can force Offenses into 3rd and longs where
game changing plays are more likely.

(Yesterday, 01:30 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I'm pretty sure Pratt could say the same about our offense laying eggs with...... wait for it.. Burrow, Teeggins and Chase, along with Brown at the helm to score some points to get us some more wins..  I mean, how much more can you add to that to make it a 30+ scoring machine per game. Can't say the same for the D.

Pratt did his job in a decimated, untalented defense. I don't expect the D to be much better this season, hope I'm wrong but.. yeah.. no.

The Bengals had more games scoring 38+ points and losing than any team of all time last year. Yeah, it was the Offenses fault.

Sure, the Offense was to blame for the Patriots loss, but for the most part the Offense did enough to win at least 3 more games than we did 
but our Defense couldn't stop anyone when it mattered.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 01:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What? Our Defense couldn't tackle for shit last year under Lou and Pratt was one of the prime suspects game after game. You say this didn't
happen to anyone on D last season? What Defense were you even watching? Lou always relied on interceptions or big plays to win games, this
just isn't a good plan. Start with the basics and the big plays will come. At least if you tackle well you can force Offenses into 3rd and longs where
game changing plays are more likely.


The Bengals had more games scoring 38+ points and losing than any team of all time last year. Yeah, it was the Offenses fault.

Sure, the Offense was to blame for the Patriots loss, but for the most part the Offense did enough to win at least 3 more games than we did 
but our Defense couldn't stop anyone when it mattered.

I find this a lot like FA. Some fans call for change and OG and our defense need change. But then when we cut guys like Pratt because it was not what they thought should happen, they go after the FO. I also liked Pratt and thought Golden may have been able to get him to earn that high salary he we due in 2025. But Golden and the FO felt differently thus the 4 new guys through FA and the draft to improve LB play.

Our defense was horrid with the NFL sack leader. That tells you how bad the rest of the defense was so yes they needed to blow it up. I still worry about safety not being addressed, but the key will be progress of some young defenders on the DL and also at CB + some new additions via the draft.

We are no different from any team at this point in the pre-season, we have weaknesses and UNKNOWNS. The unknowns like draft picks and 2nd and 3rd year vets need to make huge strides. It is on the coaches, but as Burrow said yesterday about beig ready week 1, it is on each player to be ready week 1.

[jj22]

(Yesterday, 01:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What? Our Defense couldn't tackle for shit last year under Lou and Pratt was one of the prime suspects game after game. You say this didn't
happen to anyone on D last season? What Defense were you even watching? Lou always relied on interceptions or big plays to win games, this
just isn't a good plan. Start with the basics and the big plays will come. At least if you tackle well you can force Offenses into 3rd and longs where
game changing plays are more likely.


The Bengals had more games scoring 38+ points and losing than any team of all time last year. Yeah, it was the Offenses fault.

Sure, the Offense was to blame for the Patriots loss, but for the most part the Offense did enough to win at least 3 more games than we did 
but our Defense couldn't stop anyone when it mattered.

Tackling wasn't happening with anyone on D last season. Not just Pratt is what I meant. 

[jj22]

(Yesterday, 01:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I find this a lot like FA. Some fans call for change and OG and our defense need change. But then when we cut guys like Pratt because it was not what they thought should happen, they go after the FO. I also liked Pratt and thought Golden may have been able to get him to earn that high salary he we due in 2025. But Golden and the FO felt differently thus the 4 new guys through FA and the draft to improve LB play.

Our defense was horrid with the NFL sack leader. That tells you how bad the rest of the defense was so yes they needed to blow it up. I still worry about safety not being addressed, but the key will be progress of some young defenders on the DL and also at CB + some new additions via the draft.

We are no different from any team at this point in the pre-season, we have weaknesses and UNKNOWNS. The unknowns like draft picks and 2nd and 3rd year vets need to make huge strides. It is on the coaches, but as Burrow said yesterday about beig ready week 1, it is on each player to be ready week 1.

A little over 5 million? That is backup/St money. Not sure how this train of thought grew around here that this was about salary. I doubt this was about salary. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 01:57 PM)jj22 Wrote: Tackling wasn't happening with anyone on D last season. Not just Pratt is what I meant. 

Oh, okay.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 01:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I find this a lot like FA. Some fans call for change and OG and our defense need change. But then when we cut guys like Pratt because it was not what they thought should happen, they go after the FO. I also liked Pratt and thought Golden may have been able to get him to earn that high salary he we due in 2025. But Golden and the FO felt differently thus the 4 new guys through FA and the draft to improve LB play.

Our defense was horrid with the NFL sack leader. That tells you how bad the rest of the defense was so yes they needed to blow it up. I still worry about safety not being addressed, but the key will be progress of some young defenders on the DL and also at CB + some new additions via the draft.

We are no different from any team at this point in the pre-season, we have weaknesses and UNKNOWNS. The unknowns like draft picks and 2nd and 3rd year vets need to make huge strides. It is on the coaches, but as Burrow said yesterday about beig ready week 1, it is on each player to be ready week 1.

That is the thing, the last time Pratt was damn good, Golden was his LB coach. Sure told me something when as soon as Golden was hired as
the DC Pratt asks for a trade. Golden and Hodges must of told him he wasn't going to be a 3 down LB for us anymore when he thought he was 
one. Also shows with Hodges not even mentioning Pratt before the Draft.

True the new coaches need to coach up the youth. If this happens we will be more than fine on both sides of the ball.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 02:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: A little over 5 million? That is backup/St money. Not sure how this train of thought grew around here that this was about salary. I doubt this was about salary. 

If not salary, why no trade? If he is as good as you say, wouldn''t a team end us a 7th round pick for him versus waiting for us to cut him. Backup money, come on 5.7 million is not backup money for a LB.

Who knows, Pratt may get a new deal for 5.7 million in 2025, but if not it kind of proves it was about money.

[puddycat]

This wasn't just about money; the lack of trade suggests it was part of it, especially in a LB down year draftwise.

We all know that the FO has been unhappy with player development. We also know that Golden didn't think that Pratt was a 3 down LB; an argument that Pratt won with his on field play. Anywho, I can see that Golden was ambivalent at best having Pratt as a captain of a defense that needs to develop a new identity. IMO Anarumo was a bit of a scapegoat since the position coaches should be going to bat for more snaps for players with potential. If using new players is in part a Zac problem, this is the FO "Moneyball" way of saying you're going to play Hatterburg at first base.

[jj22]

(Yesterday, 02:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If not salary, why no trade? I

Why not Trey trade?

Why were they about to release Mixon when there were plenty of teams that needed a rb still after FA had dried up (Chargers)....

Why no Cappa trade when he was clearly a commodity. 

I'm not sure Bengals are a great example to ask why no trade... 

5.7m a year in 2025 for any starting player outside of kicker/long snapper  is great. 

[*pally*]

that didn't take long

Former Bengals LB Germaine Pratt is signing a one-year deal with the Las Vegas Raiders, per source.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) June 11, 2025

[jj22]

On a side note (not because of Pratt) I like what the Raiders have done this offseason. I was conflicted on bringing Carrol back to the league, but the Chip hire was good. They may be building something in LA.

[*bfine32*]

(10 hours ago)pally Wrote: that didn't take long

Former Bengals LB Germaine Pratt is signing a one-year deal with the Las Vegas Raiders, per source.

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) June 11, 2025

Returning to the scene of the crime. I just glad it wasn't with another AFC North Team

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Pratt can still play, no doubt.

Strategically, in roster build terms, I thought we'd ride with him 1 more year and focus more/sooner on other areas of greater need.

But Golden runs his D through the LBs and wanted to change out the unit (ADG & Bachie also gone, Burks, Knight, Carter, & Giles-Harris in).

Heck maybe that was the original plan pre-trade request.

But if Pratt was again threatening to pitch a fit if he wasn't a 3 down guy, then he had to go.

We decided for status quo at 3T, CB (sans Hilton), and S.