Bengals Front Office Needs To Get With It.

[jj22]

(07-03-2025, 01:21 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: Regardless of the competition..bengals played much better the last third of the season and almost made the playoffs...the hired both a new defensive coordinator..a new OL line coach..and acquired numerous defensive and OL linemen through the draft and FA...just not maybe the players you wanted.

I'm not sure competition can be completely brushed aside in this argument. Competition is worthy of mentioning in this debate. 

[ERIC1]

(07-03-2025, 04:11 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not sure competition can be completely brushed aside in this argument. Competition is worthy of mentioning in this debate. 

For me this circular debate going nowhere is finished...again the team showed energy and was playing better at the end of last year..we have a new defensive coordinator and OL coach..the team focused on both in the offseason...specualtion means nothing...we can have this discussion in october

[jj22]

What's the deal with having to wait to discuss anything until October? No more golf with pappy?

Your free to go and come back in October.

The debate won't be "finished" if you keep replying to folks.

[Essex Johnson]

(07-03-2025, 01:11 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: Nobody has any edge at this point in time

I agree players can play better or worse than previous years but i don;t agree all players are equal and start with a clean slate each year.. it is fair to compare past performances, normally those hold true for a majoirty of times

[Ell Prez]

(07-03-2025, 01:21 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: Regardless of the competition..bengals played much better the last third of the season and almost made the playoffs...the hired both a new defensive coordinator..a new OL line coach..and acquired numerous defensive and OL linemen through the draft and FA...just not maybe the players you wanted.

Who they beat is probably the only thing we can measure them against. Adding new coaches is not going to do much. The players still need to play. How did the players play well under Lou and then not? It’s because the players got worse. Simply look at the additions this offseason, you think that’s enough to win a superbowl?

[sandwedge]

(07-03-2025, 07:38 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Who they beat is probably the only thing we can measure them against. Adding new coaches is not going to do much. The players still need to play. How did the players play well under Lou and then not? It’s because the players got worse. Simply look at the additions this offseason, you think that’s enough to win a superbowl?

I disagree, they not only changed coaches, but they changed the entire philosophy on defense and on the offensive line. I believe you will see a better OL than what we have seen for quite a few years. Peters is teaching a whole new technique that seems to be more disciplined than Pollack. It might take a few games for it to click but when it does, it's gonna be good times.

[ERIC1]

(07-03-2025, 07:38 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Who they beat is probably the only thing we can measure them against. Adding new coaches is not going to do much. The players still need to play. How did the players play well under Lou and then not? It’s because the players got worse. Simply look at the additions this offseason, you think that’s enough to win a superbowl?

You may feel coaching changes are not significant... many would not agree...you may not like the players the team acquired in FA and the draft..many..including myself would not agree...only time will tell

[ERIC1]

(07-03-2025, 11:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I disagree, they not only changed coaches, but they changed the entire philosophy on defense and on the offensive line. I believe you will see a better OL than what we have seen for quite a few years. Peters is teaching a whole new technique that seems to be more disciplined than Pollack. It might take a few games for it to click but when it does, it's gonna be good times.

1000%

[t3r3e3]

(07-03-2025, 11:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I disagree, they not only changed coaches, but they changed the entire philosophy on defense and on the offensive line. I believe you will see a better OL than what we have seen for quite a few years. Peters is teaching a whole new technique that seems to be more disciplined than Pollack. It might take a few games for it to click but when it does, it's gonna be good times.

You still have to have legit players to make it all work. Going dumpster diving on the Lucas Patrick and Cody Fords of the world, hoping subpar athletes like Geno Stone and Jordan Battle won’t get exposed again, and hoping a very thin CB room will stay healthy isn’t an inspiring strategy. Coaches can coach, but players have to play, and some of the Bengals position groups are weak AF. There are glaring holes on this roster that haven’t truly been resolved via FA and the Draft, and there’s still the looming spectacle of Hendrickson and Shemar.

[sandwedge]

(07-04-2025, 10:56 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: You still have to have legit players to make it all work.  Going dumpster diving on the Lucas Patrick and Cody Fords of the world, hoping subpar athletes like Geno Stone and Jordan Battle won’t get exposed again, and hoping a very thin CB room will stay healthy isn’t an inspiring strategy.  Coaches can coach, but players have to play, and some of the Bengals position groups are weak AF.  There are glaring holes on this roster that haven’t truly been resolved via FA and the Draft, and there’s still the looming spectacle of Hendrickson and Shemar.

I seriously doubt 90% of people here had ever heard of Patrick before we got him in FA. Ford is a good back up and play well I thought filling in for Brown and Mims.
Again, Golden's scheme and philosophy is different than Lou's. Maybe Stone and Battle will fit better. I do agree there are holes still, but you can only do so much in 1 off season. I still believe this D doesn't have to be great but average and this team will be back in the playoff picture again.
I think Hendrickson will be extended and Shemar, I couldn't care less about him.

[chrisball96]

(07-04-2025, 10:56 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: You still have to have legit players to make it all work. Going dumpster diving on the Lucas Patrick and Cody Fords of the world, hoping subpar athletes like Geno Stone and Jordan Battle won’t get exposed again, and hoping a very thin CB room will stay healthy isn’t an inspiring strategy. Coaches can coach, but players have to play, and some of the Bengals position groups are weak AF. There are glaring holes on this roster that haven’t truly been resolved via FA and the Draft, and there’s still the looming spectacle of Hendrickson and Shemar.

I’m not sure I am personally ready to agree that Jordan Battle is a subpar athlete. He’s only 24 and still progressing, and think he still could be an impact player given time and snaps.

That being said I think that it is true that the roster still has a lot of holes and that we are hoping to get above average performances from some guys who haven’t necessarily shown that ability in the past.

[ERIC1]

(07-04-2025, 11:53 AM)chrisball96 Wrote: I’m not sure I am personally ready to agree that Jordan Battle is a subpar athlete. He’s only 24 and still progressing, and think he still could be an impact player given time and snaps.

That being said I think that it is true that the roster still has a lot of holes and that we are hoping to get above average performances from some guys who haven’t necessarily shown that ability in the past.

You may feel the bengals did not do enough to fill those " holes" you speak to but only time will tell

[ERIC1]

[quote='jj22' pid='1606093' dateline='1751569675']

Coaching and significant jumps in 2nd and 3rd year players... That's what they are banking all teams rely in coaching

All teams rely in coaching and improvements in 2nd and third year players...its not a not a Bengals thing..Most teams would love to have Burrow and the Bengals offense..Its gonna be a good year..Have a great 4th

[RunKijanaRun]

(07-04-2025, 03:01 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: [quote='jj22' pid='1606093' dateline='1751569675']

Coaching and significant jumps in 2nd and 3rd year players... That's what they are banking all teams rely in coaching

All teams rely in coaching and improvements in 2nd and third year players...its not a not a Bengals thing..Most teams would love to have Burrow and the Bengals offense..Its gonna be a good year..Have a great 4th

The blind delusion is strong in this one

[ERIC1]

(07-04-2025, 05:36 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: The blind delusion is strong in this one

No its factual my friend...aside from the one percent highly drafted superstars that kick butt their first year..most draftees take a few years to reach their expected potential..on every team

[NUGDUKWE]

(07-04-2025, 10:56 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: You still have to have legit players to make it all work.  Going dumpster diving on the Lucas Patrick and Cody Fords of the world, hoping subpar athletes like Geno Stone and Jordan Battle won’t get exposed again, and hoping a very thin CB room will stay healthy isn’t an inspiring strategy.  Coaches can coach, but players have to play, and some of the Bengals position groups are weak AF.  There are glaring holes on this roster that haven’t truly been resolved via FA and the Draft, and there’s still the looming spectacle of Hendrickson and Shemar.

I agree. I do think there is a chance Stone and Battle play better in a simplified system. But that is a risk on top of a offseason the Bengals FO actively chose to limit them selves for what they could do to help the team. I'm more okay taking that risk on defense but I really wish we would've done more on the oline. Hoping a new coach fixes things is a scary proposition when we are talking protecting Burrow and I sure hope we don't go thru another season of watching him get hurt.

[NUGDUKWE]

(07-04-2025, 07:11 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: No its factual my friend...aside from the one percent highly drafted superstars that kick butt their first year..most draftees take a few years to reach their expected potential..on every team

Except now as fans we have access to so much data we can get a better insight into what players are earlier. PFF data on players can tell you what positions take longer to play well or compare 1st and 2nd year data to past players to see how much improvement to expect in some players.

[ERIC1]

(07-05-2025, 10:01 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Except now as fans we have access to so much data we can get a better insight into what players are earlier. PFF data on players can tell you what positions take longer to play well or compare 1st and 2nd year data to past players to see how much improvement to expect in some players.

We may have better access to data but that does not change anything..aside from a small percentage of draft picks that kick butt in their first year...most significant imorovement is made in years two and three and most NFL teams rely on that in their overall expectations

[chrisball96]

(07-04-2025, 01:28 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: You may feel the bengals did not do enough to fill those " holes" you speak to but only time will tell

I think the guys they signed could be solid, and if our injured players on defense come back and play well we will be in good shape. A lot is up in the air, and when we have Burrow, Chase, and Tee, we won’t be out of any game at any time.

Not trying to be overly negative but we have to have quite a few things go right and you are correct, time will tell.

[NUGDUKWE]

(07-05-2025, 11:21 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: We may have better access  to data but that does not change anything..aside from a small percentage of draft picks that kick butt in their first year...most significant imorovement is made in years two and three and most NFL teams rely on that in their overall expectations

But the data can tell you how much to realistically expect from a player. I'm not even sure what players we have that we could say fall into this category? Mims looks like he can be solid albeit still with injury concerns. Jenkins and Jackson look to be decent rotational players but this might be the most intriguing Jackson played better at the end of the season and Jenkins played worse. Other guys have more years/data so they are probably what they are at this point.