RG Options

[Sled21]

(08-14-2025, 02:07 PM)puddycat Wrote: Jalen Rivers, Caleb Etienne, Cordell Volson, Jason Kirkland, Matt Lee, Seth McLaughlin, Andrew Raym, Lucas PATRICK, Cody Ford, Andrew Stueber, Devin Cochran, Andrew Coker

Here are the 12 offensive lineman on the roster that can't play the easiest position to play, RG, on the line at an acceptable level.  Some are dinged up, but the rest are too weak, too slow, or too unskilled.  Why would anyone think the front office are the people to solve this problem?

I take Ford out of this scenario, because he really is a pretty good swing backup tackle. But for the rest of them, they ought to get them in a room and tell them somone needs to step up and take this position because no one's spot on the 53 is secured right now.

[Soonerpeace]

Sadly our drafting the last several years has doomed us. This team can’t fix all the problems this year. With the salary cap dynamics we’ve created we can only become elite again is with solid starters on rookie deals.
‘24 draft first 3 picks
1 Mims
2 Jenkins
3 Burton
‘23 draft first 3 picks
1 Myles Murphy
2 D J Turner
3 Jordan Battle
‘22 Draft
1 Dax Hill
2 CTB
3 Zachary Carter
‘21 Draft
1 Jamar Chase
2 Jackson Carman
3 Joseph Ossai

How many of those 12 would start for Philly? KC? Baltimore? That’s a huge Miss rate. Right now 9-12 Baltimore picks in the same period are starting for them. Many as rookies. Seriously how many games has some of ours started. A couple of years ago KC’s SB team had 7 rookies from their draft get significant playing time.

But the roster is weak in the secondary & RG. The last 2 drafts have been better and some picks outside of 1-3 have been good but we’ve missed on generally in our first 3 picks

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-15-2025, 11:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: They still do, but it's in Premium Stats only, and you have to select to enable Detailed Positions.
For example, here was Garrett's last year....

DLT - 1
DRT - 6
LE - 4
LEO - 120
LOLB - 11
NT - 1
RE - 7
REO - 613
ROLB - 50

So he's more on the right side, but he had >100 defensive snaps on the left side.

For comparison, here's TJ Watt distro:
DRT - 1
LE - 2
LEO - 574
LOLB - 345
REO - 6
ROLB - 5

So Watt is primarily coming from the opposite side that Garrett mostly rushes from.

For those curious about an actual DT, here's Chris Jones last year:
DLT - 129
DRT - 186
LE - 198
LEO - 76
RE - 104
REO - 71

So Chris Jones is literally all over the place being moved around for matchups, which could easily put him against Lucas Patrick or Dylan Fairchild, depending on who is more prone to give up pressures/sacks.

Good stuff. 

I'd say that the only real exception is Jones. The Chiefs play him all over the place. Watt plays almost exclusively on the left. Garrett predominantly on the right. The vast majority of guys (I think) are still gonna have a dominant side. Though it may be more true of ends than tackles. 

DC's do move guys around a lot more nowadays. Be it confusion, surprise, matchup, or overloading one side. 

I am not a premium PFF guy. So you'd have to investigate. 

In addition to the gulys you checked on  here are your pro bowlers: 

DE: Trey, Parsons, Crosby, Hunter, Gary, N. Bosa
DT: Carter, Lawrence, L. Williams, Vea, Q. Williams, Simmons, Madibuike, Heyward

I'd bet most guys have a dominant side. 

Watt, Bonito, Mack, Van Ginkel, Van Noy, J. Bosa, Verse, Greenard, and others were OLBs on the Pro Bowl ballot. 

[*ochocincos*]

(08-15-2025, 01:13 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good stuff. 

I'd say that the only real exception is Jones. The Chiefs play him all over the place. Watt plays almost exclusively on the left. Garrett predominantly on the right. The vast majority of guys (I think) are still gonna have a dominant side. Though it may be more true of ends than tackles. 

DC's do move guys around a lot more nowadays. Be it confusion, surprise, matchup, or overloading one side. 

I am not a premium PFF guy. So you'd have to investigate. 

In addition to the gulys you checked on  here are your pro bowlers: 

DE: Trey, Parsons, Crosby, Hunter, Gary, N. Bosa
DT: Carter, Lawrence, L. Williams, Vea, Q. Williams, Simmons, Madibuike, Heyward

I'd bet most guys have a dominant side. 

Watt, Bonito, Mack, Van Ginkel, Van Noy, J. Bosa, Verse, Greenard, and others were OLBs on the Pro Bowl ballot. 

Leonard Williams:
Split close to half and half left side vs right side.

Jeffery Simmons:
Split close to half and half left side vs right side.

Quinnen Williams:
Mostly on the right side.

Madubuike:
Split close to half and half left side vs right side.

Vea:
Split close to half and half left side vs right side.

So yea, I think especially for IDL, both guards need to be able to pass block (and run block) well.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-15-2025, 11:30 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Sadly our drafting the last several years has doomed us. This team can’t fix all the problems this year. With the salary cap dynamics we’ve created we can only become elite again is with solid starters on rookie deals.
‘24 draft first 3 picks
1 Mims
2 Jenkins
3 Burton
‘23 draft first 3 picks
1 Myles Murphy
2 D J Turner
3 Jordan Battle
‘22 Draft
1 Dax Hill
2 CTB
3 Zachary Carter
‘21 Draft
1 Jamar Chase
2 Jackson Carman
3 Joseph Ossai

How many of those 12 would start for Philly? KC? Baltimore? That’s a huge Miss rate. Right now 9-12 Baltimore picks in the same period are starting for them. Many as rookies. Seriously how many games has some of ours started. A couple of years ago KC’s SB team had 7 rookies from their draft get significant playing time.

But the roster is weak in the secondary & RG. The last 2 drafts have been better and some picks outside of 1-3 have been good but we’ve missed on generally in our first 3 picks

Drafting ability is basically the NFL version of MLB farm system.
If you can't draft and develop well, you're going to have to resort to always getting a bunch of proven veterans, which can get pricey.
In MLB, you can get away with just buying all the FA talent you want if you're a team like the Yankees or Dodgers, but the smaller market teams can't do that.
NFL though, the salary cap prevents big market teams from just buying up all the talent, but that just means all teams will have to deal with some kinda pricey vets and still need to be able to draft and develop some talent to ascend to the true contender tier.

[Sled21]

Well it's obvious if Duke is going to stay, they need to hire different O-line scouts, or bring in someone different to grade them out. I try not to get too pissed during the draft, because any player is a crapshoot, but I still remember screaming at the screen when they passed on Creed Humphrey and he was sitting right there to take.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-14-2025, 08:35 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah i mean he can play either guard spot. It makes too much sense not to do. If Patrick was playing well I may not like the depth but I would understand not making a move. But not sure we have anyone else on the roster that improves the play unless we start shifting guys around. Which I agree would be a risk.

Maybe they are waiting till after this Preseason rehearsal game to see if one of these others really step up, I don't know.

Patrick being banged up and hobbled to me still makes getting Risner in here a complete no brainer. I know we all have hope for Rivers but 
he really struggled against the Eagles and he has always played predominantly on the left side. We all saw the Carman failure.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-15-2025, 02:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Leonard Williams:
Split close to half and half left side vs right side.

Jeffery Simmons:
Split close to half and half left side vs right side.

Quinnen Williams:
Mostly on the right side.

Madubuike:
Split close to half and half left side vs right side.

Vea:
Split close to half and half left side vs right side.

So yea, I think especially for IDL, both guards been to be able to pass block (and run block) well.

Good info. Must be the ends who are more side specific. 

No apologies necessary. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-15-2025, 11:30 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Sadly our drafting the last several years has doomed us. This team can’t fix all the problems this year. With the salary cap dynamics we’ve created we can only become elite again is with solid starters on rookie deals.
‘24 draft first 3 picks
1 Mims
2 Jenkins
3 Burton
‘23 draft first 3 picks
1 Myles Murphy
2 D J Turner
3 Jordan Battle
‘22 Draft
1 Dax Hill
2 CTB
3 Zachary Carter
‘21 Draft
1 Jamar Chase
2 Jackson Carman
3 Joseph Ossai

How many of those 12 would start for Philly? KC? Baltimore? That’s a huge Miss rate. Right now 9-12 Baltimore picks in the same period are starting for them. Many as rookies. Seriously how many games has some of ours started. A couple of years ago KC’s SB team had 7 rookies from their draft get significant playing time.

But the roster is weak in the secondary & RG. The last 2 drafts have been better and some picks outside of 1-3 have been good but we’ve missed on generally in our first 3 picks

Good stuff. 

7 start for us, most likely. Chase, CTB, Hill, Turner, Battle, Mims, and Ossai. 

We have one high end whiff every year: 
24: Burton, 3rd
23: Murphy, 1st 
22: Carter, 3rd 
21: Carman, 2nd 

I am not ready to call whiff on Mutphy & Burton yet. After this year I will be, though.

[Soonerpeace]

(08-15-2025, 03:54 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good stuff. 

7 start for us, most likely. Chase, CTB, Hill, Turner, Battle, Mims, and Ossai. 

We have one high end whiff every year: 
24: Burton, 3rd
23: Murphy, 1st 
22: Carter, 3rd 
21: Carman, 2nd 

I am not ready to call whiff on Mutphy & Burton yet. After this year I will be, though.

But Hill has how many starts in his career? He was a #1 pick. Murphy has started none in 2 years. Battle? 13 in 2 years. Ossai? CTB? Other than Mims and Chase how many of the top 10 teams would the ones mentioned start. There’s a lot more to it than 7 starters of 12. It’s the quality not the quantity.

[Whatever]

(08-15-2025, 11:30 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Sadly our drafting the last several years has doomed us. This team can’t fix all the problems this year. With the salary cap dynamics we’ve created we can only become elite again is with solid starters on rookie deals.
‘24 draft first 3 picks
1 Mims
2 Jenkins
3 Burton
‘23 draft first 3 picks
1 Myles Murphy
2 D J Turner
3 Jordan Battle
‘22 Draft
1 Dax Hill
2 CTB
3 Zachary Carter
‘21 Draft
1 Jamar Chase
2 Jackson Carman
3 Joseph Ossai

How many of those 12 would start for Philly? KC? Baltimore? That’s a huge Miss rate. Right now 9-12 Baltimore picks in the same period are starting for them. Many as rookies. Seriously how many games has some of ours started. A couple of years ago KC’s SB team had 7 rookies from their draft get significant playing time.

But the roster is weak in the secondary & RG. The last 2 drafts have been better and some picks outside of 1-3 have been good but we’ve missed on generally in our first 3 picks

Here is KC, by comparison...

'24

Xavier Worthy-Good rookie campaign at WR, with 700+ total yards and 9 TD's.

Kingsley Suamataea -Drafted as the LT of the future, but huge disappointment.  Has been moved to LG and is with the 2nd team this training camp.

Jared Wiley-Had one catch last year.

'23

Feliz Anudike-Uzomah-DE with 3 career starts and 2.5 career sacks.

Rashee Rice-Standout rookie campaign, but injured derailed his sophomore season.  Numerous off field issues.

Wanya Morris-Failed miserably as a starting T and has been related to backup duty.

'22 

Trent McDuffie -Has been a high quality starting CB.

George Karlaftis-Quality starting DE, with 24.5 career sacks.

Skyy Moore-A bust clinging to a roster spot, with 43 catches for 494 yards and 1 TD in three years with Mahomes as his QB.

'21

Nick Bolton-Average starter as a stack LB for 4 years, with a 65.4 PFF grade last year.

Creed Humphrey -Stud All Pro C with 3 Pro Bowls on his resume.

Joshua Kaindoh -Out of the league after his rookie season. N

[Soonerpeace]

(08-15-2025, 04:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: Here is KC, by comparison...

'24

Xavier Worthy-Good rookie campaign at WR, with 700+ total yards and 9 TD's.

Kingsley Suamataea -Drafted as the LT of the future, but huge disappointment.  Has been moved to LG and is with the 2nd team this training camp.

Jared Wiley-Had one catch last year.

'23

Feliz Anudike-Uzomah-DE with 3 career starts and 2.5 career sacks.

Rashee Rice-Standout rookie campaign, but injured derailed his sophomore season.  Numerous off field issues.

Wanya Morris-Failed miserably as a starting T and has been related to backup duty.

'22 

Trent McDuffie -Has been a high quality starting CB.

George Karlaftis-Quality starting DE, with 24.5 career sacks.

Skyy Moore-A bust clinging to a roster spot, with 43 catches for 494 yards and 1 TD in three years with Mahomes as his QB.

'21

Nick Bolton-Average starter as a stack LB for 4 years, with a 65.4 PFF grade last year.

Creed Humphrey -Stud All Pro C with 3 Pro Bowls on his resume.

Joshua Kaindoh -Out of the league after his rookie season. N

The difference? McDuffie,Worthy, Creed, started day 1. They have tons more starts than Mims, Chase, & CTB. Add Bolton. Add a fourth of ours? Hill? Nobody hits on all. Now do Baltimore & Philly

[t3r3e3]

Signing Risner earlier and saving the money from dumpster diving on Patrick would’ve been the move. They need to eat the cost and sign Risner while canning Volson. This team’s aversion to paying guards money is plain dumb…

[BengalsBong]

Our only hope at change is Lucas Patrick saying he is going to retire.

If they do not see the guy being a problem and continuing to play him with the 1st string without trying other options than they have no plans for change unless another Orlando Brown type surprise falls in their lap.

Just something so good they cannot pass up.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-15-2025, 11:30 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Our only hope at change is Lucas Patrick saying he is going to retire.

If they do not see the guy being a problem and continuing to play him with the 1st string without trying other options than they have no plans for change unless another Orlando Brown type surprise falls in their lap.

Just something so good they cannot pass up.

He is, by far, the best option we have at the moment. 

[Bengalbug]

I wonder if Jerry Montgomery is the reason we have Lucas Patrick. He was a starting OL for two MVP seasons by Aaron Rodgers, where Montgomery was the DL coach.

That may be a stretch, but I’m guessing Jerry saw him do something correct for those two years where he played 90 and 82% of the snaps.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-15-2025, 04:38 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: But Hill has how many starts in his career? He was a #1 pick. Murphy has started none in 2 years. Battle? 13 in 2 years. Ossai? CTB? Other than Mims and Chase how many of the top 10 teams would the ones mentioned start. There’s a lot more to it than 7 starters of 12. It’s the quality not the quantity.

CTB has been the regular starter virtually the entire time. 38 starts. 

Hill sat behind Bates year 1 and has been a starter ever since. Struggled at S but wes pretty good at CB. 24 starts. 

If you are just gonna count starts, the Jenkins had 9 last year. Ossai had 3. 

Murphy has been a disappointment, but he was always gonna be stuck behind Hubbard for at least a year. Ossai has had injury issues.

Jackson looks pretty good as a round 3 guy. And Brown, Yoshi, Fif, snd yes, Volson have had starting gigs from further down. 

[phil413]

(08-15-2025, 07:27 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Signing Risner earlier and saving the money from dumpster diving on Patrick would’ve been the move.  They need to eat the cost and sign Risner while canning Volson.  This team’s aversion to paying guards money is plain dumb…

Risner is in good shape to get paid by anyone with a big injury and willing to win now with a bigger bonus.  Gotta hope guards around the league stay healthy these last two weeks.  Him are Shaq Mason are the only ones with a pulse. 

Cincy may wait things out for a free waiver claim of a controllable young guard but those are rare.  I wonder if they are banking on maxing Trey's raise this year to pay less in a 3rd year and this game of chicken is holding up anything after the Fant signing.  Hope I'm wrong, they should find a way for a much needed guard. 

My compromise is that if they're willing to give Patrick a chance these next two weeks, we better have an actual contingency plan.  If that's trading say a 5th or 6th before cut down day for a deep team to get an asset for a fringe guard so be it.  That or if a young center starting, whatever it is Ford is a 6th man or swing tackle...NOT a starting guard. 

[J24]

Three interesting guys that I'm hearing could be trade candidates.(fan speculation)

Christian Haynes Seahawks- 2024 3rd RD pick
Jackson Powers Johnson Raiders - 2024 2nd rd pick
Cole Strange Patriots- 2022 1st RD pick- Paul Dhener mentioned him in the Athletic yesterday!

[phil413]

(Yesterday, 01:33 AM)J24 Wrote: Three interesting guys that I'm hearing could be trade candidates.(fan speculation)

Christian Haynes Seahawks- 2024 3rd RD pick
Jackson Powers Johnson  Raiders - 2024 2nd rd pick
Cole Strange Patriots- 2022 1st RD pick- Paul Dhener mentioned him in the Athletic yesterday!

Nice suggestions.  I think only Strange is realistic as a backup that had his option year declined.  He had great pass blocking numbers and can play center.  So at only 4M he should be worth something if nothing else as a super sub for the Pats. More likely we get a cheap castoff but I'd be pretty happy with Strange despite the bad run block numbers.