This has to be the year, right? This team HAS to contend and do better now, this very season. No excuses. No more next year. No more youth, injury, rebuilding, bad luck sob stories. The time to compete is now. It's always now in this league.
Why concern yourself with may or may not happen later, or what has happened before, when you have the ability to seize the moment as a playoff team, right in this very moment?
This team obviously started 8-0. There was something different about this group, even compared to similar rosters of recent seasons. They seemed to have progressed to that next step. There was almost a magic aura surrounding this year's roster. They were special. The season seemed special, and different. If any year was to be the year this was it.
Since that 8-0 start this team is 3-4. They were 2-2 with Andy Dalton after that magical start. I'm not sure I really need to explain where I'm going with this concern.
I guess the question is: Is the magic gone? Is that special feeling many of us had still there? Is it for you? Or are you now starting to doubt whether this year will be any different than the last? From a rational, unbiased, logical perspective, do you, as a fan, feel the same level of confidence you did earlier? Less? Perhaps even more?
Because for me, I'm starting to get that "I've seen this movie" feeling. Some may find that to be negative, and that's ok. But regardless, is simply me sharing my honest opinion on how I'm seeing this season develop.
Houston, primetime game. Loss. Arizona, primetime game. Loss. Denver, primetime game. Loss. Big divisional game against the Steelers. Loss.
Even more concerning is what we just saw. Up 14-3 against the Broncos. Outscored 17-3 in the second half. I've seen this movie. I saw it recently when we went into the locker room up 14-7 against the Cardinals only to be outscored 21-0 in the 3rd quarter. Want more examples?
-2015 playoffs against Indy. Outscored 13-0 in the 2nd half.
-2014 playoffs against San Diego. Outscored 20-0 in the 2nd half.
-2013 playoffs against Houston. Held to two field goals in the 2nd half, outscored 10-6 in the 2nd half.
-2012 playoffs against Houston. Outscored 14-0 in the 2nd half.
-2011 playoffs against Jets. Held to 7 second half points, outscored 10-7 in the 2nd half.
-2006 playoffs against Steelers. Outscored 17-0 in the 2nd half.
-We've been outscored in the 2nd half in EVERY single playoff game under Marvin Lewis. Every. Single One.
-The point totals after halftime in these games are 84-13. Our opponents have almost scored SEVEN times as much as us.
-We have had one touchdown in 6 playoff games in the 2nd half. One. In 180 minutes of football.
So, it's not necessarily the fact we may be without Andy that I find concerning. I've thought AJ has done admirably, and I feel pretty confident in his ability. I think the defense is playing great, and I think the breakdown Monday late was more a result of the environment and the offense's ability to keep them off the field. I still love our weapons, and I still think this team is stacked with talent.
What is concerning is what has plagued this team forever. With different cordinators, and different QB's, different schemes, etc. It's this teams ability to close out games and/or make the proper adjustments to counter the opponent. It's the mentality that seems almost scared to do anything other than take the foot off the gas and protect a lead. And I'm sorry, but all of that is a reflection on the head coach.
Can this team still do great things? You bet. Will they? I'll take the wait and see approach.
They have so much talent. AJ is playing pretty well, and I think he can only continue to improve. They'll get Eifert and Iloka back, which is huge. They have capable cordinators. It's all right there for the taking.
The recent loss on it's own is not that big of a deal. I thought they looked pretty good. And both teams looked evenly matched. The Steelers loss on it's own is not that big of a deal. A backup QB, who saw backup reps all week, with no experience, got thrown to the wolves. So I think we can be ok. I'm just not at all confident about it. And by it I mean Giggles. Make the ending to this movie different than what I'm guessing it's going to be.
Please, PLEASE, do NOT waste the start of what appeared to be a great season. For a great team, with great, great talent. For a town that has waited so long for it. Please win more now. Just prove to be a legitimate contender. Show up. Look well prepared, hungry, aggressive. Outclass rather than be outclass. As your leader says, "be a ***** pro". All of you. Every single person in that building. When the playoffs come, take all that talent you have and kick somebody right in the ***** teeth. NOW.
Basically, make all my years of bitching look stupid. Make me look stupid, Marvin. Get it done. No ***** excuses!
The only bad loss this team has is Houston and even then they are a playoff team. This team is more than capable of beating anyone. Exactly how that plays out is yet to be seen though.
Unlike last year, This team may just get healthy at just the right time. Get back eifert, get back iloka, maybe Hewitt and maybe Dalton.
There has undoubtedly been adversity as of late. But don't let these close losses amidst all of that fool you. A strong run is still in the cards. With this defense there will always be a chance. I have a very good feeling about this postseason and the US against the world mentality this team will be bringing into each and every game.
After re-reading my post I realize it's more of rant, sprinkled with a few facts, than me actually making a specific point. And as with most of my posts, it's probably longer than it needs to be.
I don't know guys, I'm just getting nervous. I don't think the loss was that big of deal. And my opinions about our group of players remains the same. I'm just getting more and more hints of deja vu. The turning into a different team in the 2nd half of big games, the conservative play calling (After starting the game so aggressive), the fact we're going to finish the 2nd half of the season at .500 or worse.
I hope I'm just overreacting and they're fine. But man oh man, does Marvin Lewis and his ability to lead this team scare the absolute shit out of me.
(12-31-2015, 03:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: After re-reading my post I realize it's more of rant, sprinkled with a few facts, than me actually making a specific point. And as with most of my posts, it's probably longer than it needs to be.
I don't know guys, I'm just getting nervous. I don't think the loss was that big of deal. And my opinions about our group of players remains the same. I'm just getting more and more hints of deja vu. The turning into a different team in the 2nd half of big games, the conservative play calling (After starting the game so aggressive), the fact we're going to finish the 2nd half of the season at .500 or worse.
I hope I'm just overreacting and they're fine. But man oh man, does Marvin Lewis and his ability to lead this team scare the absolute shit out of me.
You're not the only one nervous.. I actually thought Marvin did alright this year and in shows in most of the games.. but the Key games - Texans & Broncos in Prime time is where the no second half adjustments monster that is Marvin Lewis reared it's ugly head again
We already have the stats, at least for this year, the Bengals offense gets progressively worse as the game goes on (quarter by quarter). Secondly, what stands out, is the Defense is #1 in points but the 3rd quarter they're almost at the bottom of the league.
Both point to horrible halftime adjustment capability (whether that's lack of adjustment, or incorrect adjustment). Bengals are usually doing very well by the halfway mark. It leads me to believe they do no adjustment. Why "fix" what's "not broken", I have to believe.
You give the other team the questions to the test, they're going to have better answers than not.
(12-31-2015, 03:31 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: It leads me to believe they do no adjustment. Why "fix" what's "not broken", I have to believe.
You give the other team the questions to the test, they're going to have better answers than not.
Agreed. I've always gotten the impression that they're playing almost not to lose rather than to win, when in a big game with a lead. It's like they can't get the game over soon enough and get out of the building with a W, whereas other elite teams will continue to pile on. We play with a 14 pt lead the way the Patriots do with a 30 point lead.
If you look at the Broncos game the gameplan clearly changed. They went from ultra aggressive to Bob Bratowski almost immediately after securing a two possession lead.
In my head I see it as "Holy shit, that actually worked. Let's just sit on this and get out of here."
When I watch a Pats game I see like some crazy wrestling match or something with a villlian. Keep punching him!! Haymaker, haymaker, haymaker!" "Man, he's out. Get off him!!! You're killing him!!!" "No, I'm going to hit about a dozen more times. Then I'm going to Hulk Hogan leg drop on him. Then I'm going to pretend to walk away only to turn around and put him in a camel clutch. Then I'm going to punch a fan. And then I'm going to hit one last time just because I can."
That's how I can best articulate the difference in approach. I think our coach goes into ulta-conservative mode and steers away from the very thing that gave him the lead in the first place. That, and I think his ability to both properly motivate his staff and players, and to make adjustment and counter his opponent in the 2nd half is severely lacking.
(12-31-2015, 03:45 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: When I watch a Pats game I see like some crazy wrestling match or something with a villlian. Keep punching him!! Haymaker, haymaker, haymaker!" "Man, he's out. Get off him!!! You're killing him!!!" "No, I'm going to hit about a dozen more times. Then I'm going to Hulk Hogan leg drop on him. Then I'm going to pretend to walk away only to turn around and put him in a camel clutch. Then I'm going to punch a fan. And then I'm going to hit one last time just because I can."
That's how I can best articulate the difference in approach. I think our coach goes into ulta-conservative mode and steers away from the very thing that gave him the lead in the first place. That, and I think his ability to both properly motivate his staff and players, and to make adjustment and counter his opponent in the 2nd half is severely lacking.
Yep, the Patriots offense is consistent, every quarter they're in the top 3 or 4 in points basically, there's no difference by quarter/half. Their defense is worse in the 2nd half, likely because other teams are throwing haymakers in the 1st half.
But it's easy to see, Billy Bellicheat does not play marvin ball. The worst part of that is if you swapped head coaches, Belichick would have the Bengals offense humming all game - better than the Patriots, due to superior talent. Josh Mcdaniels is not why the Patriots offense is the way it is.
I don't think it's a big mystery or anything where the magic has gone. The Steelers took out Eifert who was leading the league in TD receptions, Dalton injured his thumb in the middle of a career year and an unproven backup QB comes in who had little to no NFL experience all in one game. That will kill some magic pretty quickly. I don't think there is anyone to plead to you go out and play with the hand your dealt and hope at the end of the day it's good enough. Unless we're doubting the effort the coaches and players put up I don't know what is going to avoid wasting the season other then putting their all into it. Some call injuries an excuse but it's also just the facts.
To simply say McCarron is adequate and insinuate he isn't the problem like he filled into Dalton's shoes so easily isn't true. He couldn't even handle the snap in OT to get down the field. The only two games Dalton lost this season left us in a position to win the game until the final drive. In hindsight the Texans aren't as bad as we thought at the time and the Cardinals are still arguably the best team in the NFC other then Carolina.
(12-31-2015, 03:57 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Its not an excuse if we lose because andy dalton is hurt
Its called reality.
If they lose, can you really say that it would be because Andy Dalton is hurt? It's not like he's some playoff juggernaut.
It would definitely be an excuse. You can't lose one player (albeit, at the most important position) and claim that that is the reason that you lost. On a team as good as the Bengals, you overcome things like that.
I'd feel much more comfortable with Andy in there, but it's not as if McCarron has played badly....he's filled in very well, actually.
(12-31-2015, 04:08 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: If they lose, can you really say that it would be because Andy Dalton is hurt? It's not like he's some playoff juggernaut.
It would definitely be an excuse. You can't lose one player (albeit, at the most important position) and claim that that is the reason that you lost. On a team as good as the Bengals, you overcome things like that.
I'd feel much more comfortable with Andy in there, but it's not as if McCarron has played badly....he's filled in very well, actually.
hes filled in well for a backup QB.. but the struggles are obvious
McCarron i believe can manage the game. what that means is hes not gonna win us the game thats gonna be up to the other 45 players on the field.
McCarrons job is to not lose the game for us.
I know Andy Dalton does not have a playoff victory. But for anyone on this forum to sit here and say we wouldnt be in a better position to win with dalton than without is just completely assinine.
and while mccarron has filled in nicely against one of the worst teams in the league and a great 1/2 game vs the #1 defense.
neither of those will be enough in the playoffs where the competition raises the bar.
(im not blaming anything on McCarron just for the Record its just obvious he doesnt have the control or the experience to run the offense like it will be needed... just one drive in the 2nd half last week and maybe our Defense isnt completely gassed... if its a result of playcalling (due to lack of trust) i dont know.)
(12-31-2015, 04:08 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: If they lose, can you really say that it would be because Andy Dalton is hurt? It's not like he's some playoff juggernaut.
This is sort of the sentiment I had the whole time, myself. I expected Dalton to be better in the playoffs this year, but this TEAM just seems to operate at 50% efficiency in the post-season for the past decade or so (especially the offense). As well as Dalton has been playing, I have to admit it does sound pretty odd when Bengals fan preemptively attribute a playoff loss to NOT having a QB with 8 turnovers for every TD in the post-season.
If we're one and done in the playoffs, it made me think...would we need a roster shakeup? How does a team with this much talent need a roster shakeup? They wouldn't be getting it done. Seems like we'd need a coach shakeup, lol.
We have a ton of players who hold a lot of trade value, I can't imagine wanting to get rid of any of them though.
(12-31-2015, 03:57 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Its not an excuse if we lose because andy dalton is hurt
Its called reality.
What a crock of shit.
Like I said, we were 2-2 WITH Andy Dalton after the 8-0 start. We lost a home game to a 3-5 Texans team, that had to play with a 3rd string QB for the 2nd half, who was just signed the week before. With Andy Dalton we scored 6 pts in that game. And what does Andy Dalton being injured have to do with the Cardinals outscoring us 21-0 to start the 2nd half, in a game he played in?
Read what is written. The concern lies in the fact that we're seeing similar problems that have plagued us previously. Not closing games, poor prime time performances, poor adjustments. The concern is the fact that we went from look like a favorite to secure a bye after 8 weeks to now looking at the possibility of blowing that opportunity, and facing the task of winning in the Wild Card round, which we've be unable to do all six tries under Marvin Lewis.
If you want to talk injuries let's look at our competition.
-New England has been down Jullian Edleman for weeks, who was on pace for 1,300 yards, over 100 catches and 13 TD's. Gronk has missed timed and isn't 100%. Danny Amendola is now hurt. Dion Lewis and Legarette Blount are both IR'd. Just to recap: They're down their #1 receiver, their #2 receiver, both running backs, and their All Pro Tight End is banged up. They have the best record in the AFC.
-The Broncos, who we just lost to, are playing with Brock Osweiler, who has zero starts and a total of 30 snaps going into this season. This was a franchise who was built upon and relied upon 4,000 and 5,000 yard passing seasons, littered with passing records. Now forced to play an unknown. So forgive if I don't except the excuse of us missing Andy Dalton as the reason we lost. It was our backup vs theirs.
Excuses are for losers. If you're confident in this team then simply say they'll get it fixed and we'll be fine, no worries. Why point to injuries? Year 1 we were too young. Year 2 we were too young. Year 3, well I don't even know what the excuse was that year, I guess we were still too young. Year 4 we're too banged up. And I can only assume you have that injury card and ready to go if year 5 goes south.
But while you're busy rationalizing losses because of youth other young teams are actually winning. The Seahwaks we're younger than we were in their two straight Superbowl appearances. While you're busy explaining away first round exits because of injuries other teams are winning with injuries of their own. History is littered with names like Frank Reich and Jeff Hostetler stepping and winning, not because they were great, but because the team was great.
You can't continue to point to and hold up this idea that we are so talented, and so great, and so deep, and then immediately roll a bunch of reasons why we lose or why we can't do better. Either we really are great and we really do have a ton of depth or we don't. Great teams overcome any number of things throughout the course of a season. That's what makes them great.
The time to win is now. It's been time. And before you realize it the time will pass you by. Different players, different coaches, more injuries, new faces and an ever-changing league will leave one year's contender a down year in almost no time at all. Teams that were thought to be favorite can transform into a disaster in a matter of weeks. (Cough, Indy).
With all of our expiring contracts, with names like Whitworth, Hall, Jones, Nelson, Peko, and Mauluga all on the wrong side of 30, and with the previous 4 seasons all resulting in no postseason success, it might be wise to feel a sense of urgency. And leave let other teams come up with the excuses, because we'll be too busy winning.
(12-31-2015, 04:17 PM)reuben.Thahmed Wrote: make adam jones return every kick and punt in the playoffs and see a higher efficiency, lol.
I am in agreement that Adam Jones needs to return punts.I mean you got one of the most dangerous punt-returners and you do not use him.Come on MAN!!! And to me all of you are right,old marvin plays way too conservative.He sucks sucks big time.He needs to keep the foot on the gas and just keep hammering away ALL GAME.He haS never done that.I mean when they got 40-50 seconds left before the half and he justs takes a friggin knee.That just kills me.big ben and tom brady will go for a score and use their two minute drill.I cannot stand his way of running the team.If you got a second left you should be trying to score,you moron.If he plays that way against the dirty-birds,he will get killed.Ryan Mallett it a damn good qb and he is about 6ft6in.And he has a killer instinct,just like old big ben.I have been very critical of giggles way of running this team in game time management and playing so stinkin conservative.I HATE THAT SHI-----T !!!! ONE more thing.Hue needs to use his highly skilled receivers much more.Get big chunks of yardage by throwning deep.I mean you got TYLER EIFERT,A.J.GREEN,MARVIN JONES, AND M.SANU.He does not use his WR's near enough.Instead he keeps trying to run the rock up the middle and its not working good enough.Sometimes yes,but come on man,throw the friggin rock deep down the field,best case you get a TD,or worse PI which is okay too.Big Ben,Tom B,Carson P all get big chunks by throwin it.To win in prime time you have to throw it with the deep ball.We have the talent,please use it Hue.Then get up on them and now pound the shit out of them.Wear down the CB's in the first half,get up on them and in the second half,you can be more selective in slingin it.I know the refs are calling a lot of pentalities on CB's.Take advantage of that.Marvin Lewis and company.I will be watching your arse and how you manage the clock on this upcoming battle.If you allow the dirty-birds to come in here and whip us,I hope you step down.
Again, this is just another thread that shows the following.
Andy Dalton gets blamed for the bad playoff results from the mainstream media and many fans.
Truth is, the monkey is on the back of this entire organization. Marvin Lewis. A.J. Green. Vontaze Burfict. Tyler Eifert. Many others. All of these guys have had their moments in the spotlight where they have choked. It's not just Andy Dalton.
It's starting to remind me of the Chargers in the 2000's. They got to the playoffs like 5 or 6 times, had home games and played quite a few games as favorites. In the end, they ended up winning like what, 2 or 3 playoff games in the whole span? They had a ton of talent and many years, were considered the most talented and potential favorites. It never happened.
174 of 258 (67%) for 2,226 yards, 18 TD's, 4 INT's. 111.4 QB rating.8-0 record.
Andy Dalton's Stats for Games 9-12 (and a drive in game 13):
81 of 128 (63%) for 1,024 yards, 7 TD's, 3 INT's. 96.6 rating. 2-2 record (not counting the Steelers game)
Now, I am not at all saying that Dalton played poorly in these games. And of course the opponents are of differing levels, and the number of games is significantly different. But I'm just sharing these numbers to illustrate that the level of play, for whatever reason, has dropped since the 8-0 start. And saying Andy is hurt isn't the only reason.
In games 1-8 Dalton had a higher QB rating, completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, averaged more yards, less turnovers and didn't lose a single time.
So if your response to someone asking why our play isn't as high as it was in weeks 1-8 is that Andy is hurt then I would simply ask what exactly these you think numbers illustrate, if anything?
And this team had a defense that hadn't given 30 points one single time in weeks 1-8. Not once. And they held 5 of those 8 teams under 20. They then proceeded to give over 30 in two of the four weeks following that 8-0 start. (35 to Arizona and 33 to Pittsburgh) I'm not sure what Andy's injury has to do with that either.
I don't think trying to gauge the difference in play from weeks 1-8 vs weeks 9-15 is as simple as injury. This team played GREAT to start the year. They haven't played near as well since, with or without Andy. They did beat up on a bad Browns teams and a not great Rams team. They gutted out a win against a terrible 49'ers team. But they couldn't close against Arizona or Denver, one of which Andy was healthy and one of which it was backup vs backup, and fell short when matched against elite competition. They had an awful loss against Houston. They lost at home to the Steelers.
Basically, they haven't beaten anyone good since the 1st half of the year. They couldn't measure when matched against the postseason peers. And they've been pretty much average since their great start.
Let's hope they return to form when it counts. I'd definitely rather have the 8-0 team than 4-4 or 3-5 team that closed the year.
(12-31-2015, 05:01 PM)ItsOdellThurman Wrote: Again, this is just another thread that shows the following.
Andy Dalton gets blamed for the bad playoff results from the mainstream media and many fans.
I'm pretty sure a good number of both media and fans have laid that blame at the feet of Marvin Lewis. Yes, Andy certainly has been criticized for his postseason play. (As he should, he played terribly and any other QB would have saw an equal amount of criticism for the same play.) But I think it's untrue that he's solely seen blame for the losses.
In fact, this saw a lot of discussion just a couple of years ago (note: I'm not a Steven A Smith fan at all)
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