Cam wins a playoff game and enters Super Bowl before we do under XXXX.

[Whacked]

Thanks fot posting that Reub

[Utts]

(01-24-2016, 11:28 PM)RagnarLothbrok Wrote: I personally wanted a Brady v. Newton Superbowl where the Patriots blew out the Panthers. I have a serious disdain for Cam Newton. Also, Brady winning the Superbowl over Cam Newton would be a huge f you to Roger Goodell, which is always a plus!

What do you have against Cam Newton? 

[t3r3e3]

(01-25-2016, 04:26 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Seriously?  This is your take?  "His receivers are garbage"?

By your standards, Marvin Jones - Garbage.  Mo Sanu - Garbage.  AJ Green - overrated.

If you think Ginn isn't a good WR then your ability to assess talent is in question.

Miami - a terrible franchise that didn't know how to use him.  He is fast. He takes off the top of the defense.  Of course if you only send him deep with a QB that can't throw deep, his stats will reflect that. 

SF - another organization that didn't have a QB that could throw deep. 

AZ - didn't have Palmer to throw to him when he was there.

Ginn developed a reputation as a WR that "couldn't hold onto the ball" due to people listening to the media.  I can't tell you how many times this season, the analyst would say that he has a problem with dropped passes, only for him to make a great catch.  Any time he dropped a pass, you would hear them get ready to pile on that he drops passes, only for him to come back and make the catch.

Does he catch everything?  No, but find me a WR who does.  Does his speed give him an element that helps the Panthers?  Yep.  His ability to go deep means that the defenses have to account for him, because if they don't and he is Cam's primary target, you now have a guy completely wide open for Cam to throw to.

The fact that you think Funchess, a rookie WR, "looked like a bust" is very telling on how much you have bought into the Cam hype.

Stewart hasn't been as injured as you make him out to be.  Olsen is one of the top TEs in the league.

Want some proof that scheme is important to how a player performs?  Jimmy Graham, great in NO, not so great in Seattle.

Matt Cassell tore it up in NE when he covered for Brady - not so good elsewhere

Mike Wallace was good in Pittsburgh - hasn't wowed since leaving.

TJ Housh - was a favorite Bengal - then failed in Seattle and Baltimore.

I could go on.  I hope you get the point.

Going down with the ship, eh captain?  For the record, Ted Ginn is not a #1 WR, nor is he a #2 on any but the most decrepit WR corps.  Ginn has been a journeyman WR for a majority of his career, and retains roster spots primarily due to special teams value.  He's the classic situational deep threat with questionable mitts.  Draft position does not determine the depth chart.  J-Stew has  been hurt in parts or all of a majority of his seasons in the NFL.  Ankles, Achilles, knees, etc.  Everyone knows this.  Funchess was raw coming out of college, and did little.  Kelvin Benjamin didn't play a down.  

[Shake n Blake]

Sovereign Nation when confronted with facts and hard evidence:

[tlotharw]

(01-25-2016, 01:02 PM)BritishBengal Wrote: Way to mask the truth with stating only their draft position. His weapons are Ted Ginn, a (up until this season) monumental draft bust who has hopped from team to team. Philly Brown an undrafted WR from OSU. A solid TE in Olson, but was far from elite and Jonathan Stewart, talented, but oft injured. Those are his starting weapons. Now going into the season, I think there is little doubt he had the weakest talent of any team in the NFL on paper. The fact they have flourished is undoubtedly in large part down to Cam. 


How should he react? Be happy? Or present himself to the media like every other QB? Pretend it doesn't hurt and only look forward to the next game?H

Cam benefits from fantastic offensive and defensive lines.  He also carries the collective will of the team and he is really tough to deal with because he throws pretty well and when he runs it is a different ball game.

[blt4584]

(01-25-2016, 07:20 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: really stats?  Stats can be very misleading...

Ted Ginn - 44 catches  for 739 yrds at 16.8 per.  10 TDs (that is a good year) 10 at more than 20 plus, 5 at 40 plus and 36 for a 1st down.

Guess how many fumbles he has?  For a guy that has terrible hands, he has 0 fumbles, and only 3 in his ENTIRE career.


So stop.  His hands are fine.  The route running isn't his greatest strength.

When someone says a WR has bad hands, they are referring to their ability to catch the ball, not carry it. Ted Ginn has trouble catching footballs. He's fast though.

[tlotharw]

(01-25-2016, 10:03 PM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Going down with the ship, eh captain?  For the record, Ted Ginn is not a #1 WR, nor is he a #2 on any but the most decrepit WR corps.  Ginn has been a journeyman WR for a majority of his career, and retains roster spots primarily due to special teams value.  He's the classic situational deep threat with questionable mitts

He's also in the Super Bowl.

[t3r3e3]

(01-26-2016, 01:26 AM)tlotharw Wrote: He's also in the Super Bowl.

So was Devery Henderson?  Your point?

Ginn has questionable hands, and mad wheels.  This has been proven over the course of his NFL career.  He's most dangerous in the open field once he already has the ball, hence, his value on reverses and special teams. If you've watched any Panthers games, you'd know that Ginn has dropped his fair share of deep shots this year as well.  The only thing that changed for Ginn was Carolina had no other field ready talent behind Benjamin, unless you count a washed up Cotchery and the waiver fodder Corey Brown. 

[Brownshoe]

There's a reason Newton has the most pro bowlers around him. He doesn't have a good #1 WR this year (which he's had a great #1 in Steve Smith, and a good #1 in Benjamin in every previous year) but he does have one of the best run games in the league and close to the best TE in the league. He's also got the best OL around him (and its not even close). He's got one of the best if not the best defense to boot.

The only thing on that team is that they don't have a solid #1 WR (even though Olsen is a solid #1 reciever). To act like Newton is carrying that team is ridiculous. Newton is a good QB, but let's not act like Newton is carrying his team to the Superbowl.

[BengalYankee]

(01-25-2016, 09:54 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: If Dalton hadn't got hurt he'd have met cam there.

So if Andy hadn't got hurt and he meets Cam in the SB does the thread ...

"Palmer wins a playoff game before we do under Lewis"  even gets created???


Or is this only reserved for Marv???

[BengalYankee]

(01-25-2016, 04:37 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: However, he does have an ego.  I personally don't like the showboating.  This year he deserved it and I would have backed him if he only showboated this year.  However, he was showboating ever since coming into the league.  Kinda like Hill.  Last year, no issue with the TD celebrations.  This year?  I wanted him to stop.  He didn't earn the right to celebrate.

Interesting....

How about before the Packers won their SB Rogers was doing the following ....



Did he deserve the right to celebrate before winning???



 

[BritishBengal]

(01-25-2016, 04:26 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Seriously?  This is your take?  "His receivers are garbage"?

By your standards, Marvin Jones - Garbage.  Mo Sanu - Garbage.  AJ Green - overrated.

If you think Ginn isn't a good WR then your ability to assess talent is in question.

Miami - a terrible franchise that didn't know how to use him.  He is fast. He takes off the top of the defense.  Of course if you only send him deep with a QB that can't throw deep, his stats will reflect that. 

SF - another organization that didn't have a QB that could throw deep. 

AZ - didn't have Palmer to throw to him when he was there.

Ginn developed a reputation as a WR that "couldn't hold onto the ball" due to people listening to the media.  I can't tell you how many times this season, the analyst would say that he has a problem with dropped passes, only for him to make a great catch.  Any time he dropped a pass, you would hear them get ready to pile on that he drops passes, only for him to come back and make the catch.

Does he catch everything?  No, but find me a WR who does.  Does his speed give him an element that helps the Panthers?  Yep.  His ability to go deep means that the defenses have to account for him, because if they don't and he is Cam's primary target, you now have a guy completely wide open for Cam to throw to.

The fact that you think Funchess, a rookie WR, "looked like a bust" is very telling on how much you have bought into the Cam hype.

Stewart hasn't been as injured as you make him out to be.  Olsen is one of the top TEs in the league.

Want some proof that scheme is important to how a player performs?  Jimmy Graham, great in NO, not so great in Seattle.

Matt Cassell tore it up in NE when he covered for Brady - not so good elsewhere

Mike Wallace was good in Pittsburgh - hasn't wowed since leaving.

TJ Housh - was a favorite Bengal - then failed in Seattle and Baltimore.

I could go on.  I hope you get the point.

You haven't said anything I didn't though. I said Cam has made him good, he has been garbage before. That's just a fact. He was and still is a sloppy/limited route runner. He excels burning people deep. How can you ignore the fact that Cam's arm and scrambling ability is the reason Ginn so often able to get open deep. I agree players are a product of circumstance and being in the right scheme often. Cam has had success throughout college and the NFL so far, Ginn hasn't. So Ginn is clearly the one benefiting most from Cam, not the other way round.

Fyi- I never said Funchess looked like a bust, that was someone else.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-26-2016, 08:53 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: Fyi- I never said Funchess looked like a bust, that was someone else.

That would be me. It's too soon to seriously attach a bust label to Funchess, but there's no doubt that his season was a disappointment.

When Benjamin went down, the Panthers desperately needed someone to fill that void. Funchess was considered the best candidate to make a significant contribution, but wasn't able to rise to the challenge. He could be great someday, but he wasn't much of an asset to Cam Newton this season.

[BayouBengal]

Most Alabama fans hated old Scam with a passion, but like me some UA fans have come around on him. Maybe it's because we just won yet another National Championship with Super Saban or maybe it's because feelgood Cam stories saturate ESPN right now. Either way lately I've been thinking that he's really gotten a bad rap yet played good football despite it.

He bought a laptop that he should have known was stolen and his dad was allegedly on the phone when money was discussed for his transfer to AU. Neither allegation held up yet both haunted him. He still won a JuCo NatC his first year playing and then the CFB NatC the next year. Then he goes to the NFL and you can't deny he has lived up to expectations in Carolina. I don't believe anybody expected him to be such a community figure there to boot.

The dude just plays with his emotions on his sleeve. What more do you want from the guy? To not dance? Well then keep him out of the damn endzone you salty bastards!

[Savagehenry54]

(01-26-2016, 04:47 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: Most Alabama fans hated old Scam with a passion, but like me some UA fans have come around on him. Maybe it's because we just won yet another National Championship with Super Saban or maybe it's because feelgood Cam stories saturate ESPN right now. Either way lately I've been thinking that he's really gotten a bad rap yet played good football despite it.

He bought a laptop that he should have known was stolen and his dad was allegedly on the phone when money was discussed for his transfer to AU. Neither allegation held up yet both haunted him. He still won a JuCo NatC his first year playing and then the CFB NatC the next year. Then he goes to the NFL and you can't deny he has lived up to expectations in Carolina. I don't believe anybody expected him to be such a community figure there to boot.

The dude just plays with his emotions on his sleeve. What more do you want from the guy? To not dance? Well then keep him out of the damn endzone you salty bastards!

Osu got robbed.  We'd have whupped you again if they hadn't put a krap Oklahoma team in the playoff

[OrlandoBengal]

(01-26-2016, 04:47 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: Most Alabama fans hated old Scam with a passion, but like me some UA fans have come around on him. Maybe it's because we just won yet another National Championship with Super Saban or maybe it's because feelgood Cam stories saturate ESPN right now. Either way lately I've been thinking that he's really gotten a bad rap yet played good football despite it.

He bought a laptop that he should have known was stolen and his dad was allegedly on the phone when money was discussed for his transfer to AU. Neither allegation held up yet both haunted him. He still won a JuCo NatC his first year playing and then the CFB NatC the next year. Then he goes to the NFL and you can't deny he has lived up to expectations in Carolina. I don't believe anybody expected him to be such a community figure there to boot.

The dude just plays with his emotions on his sleeve. What more do you want from the guy? To not dance? Well then keep him out of the damn endzone you salty bastards!

This.  Unless I have missed it, he has been beyond a model citizen from the time he entered the league.  Should have have stayed away from the laptop?  Yes.  Does it make him some sort of a career criminal?  No, it certainly does not.

The guy accounted for 4500 yards and 45 touchdowns this year, and got better as the year went on.  He plays with passion and gives 110% effort on every play I have ever seen him take part in.  I feel like this is the same argument that was made against Russell Wilson the last two year... he's not any good, he is carried by those around him, etc.  It's ok to admit that someone else is good...

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-25-2016, 07:20 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: really stats?  Stats can be very misleading...

Ted Ginn - 44 catches  for 739 yrds at 16.8 per.  10 TDs (that is a good year) 10 at more than 20 plus, 5 at 40 plus and 36 for a 1st down.

Guess how many fumbles he has?  For a guy that has terrible hands, he has 0 fumbles, and only 3 in his ENTIRE career.


So stop.  His hands are fine.  The route running isn't his greatest strength.

Fumbles have nothing to do with hands.

Fitzgerald had 2 fumbles this season. So you're going to tell me you take Ginn's hands over Fitz's?

Ginn does have bad hands. And bad route running. All he has is speed. When you drop 10 passes and only caught 44, that's not good. No one who caught 40 or more passes has a higher drop percentage.

Plus, you can just watch the game tape. Did you see how he dropped a TD pass in the Monday night game against the Colts that would have won that game?

Ginn isn't a #1 receiver. He's not good. He is a beneficiary of Newton. As are all those receivers.

[Savagehenry54]

(01-27-2016, 07:59 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Fumbles have nothing to do with hands.

Fitzgerald had 2 fumbles this season. So you're going to tell me you take Ginn's hands over Fitz's?

Ginn does have bad hands. And bad route running. All he has is speed. When you drop 10 passes and only caught 44, that's not good. No one who caught 40 or more passes has a higher drop percentage.

Plus, you can just watch the game tape. Did you see how he dropped a TD pass in the Monday night game against the Colts that would have won that game?

Ginn isn't a #1 receiver. He's not good. He is a beneficiary of Newton. As are all those receivers.

He came to Osu as a corner for a reason but he turned out to be such a weapon as a receiver cuz he's just so darn fast that they switched his position.  Pretty obvious why he was the number one sought corner/return man coming out of high school, not a receiver.  Even though I'm sure he played receiver in high school where lots of guys, especially all americans, still play both ways....but he came onto campus as a corner.  If he didn't already have a bad rep in the hands dept even back then, he most certainly would have been listed as a receiver already instead of having to change positions.

[*Go Cards*]

It is silly comparing Cam to Dalton.

One was the overall #1 pick !

The other was passed up by every single one of the 32 NFL teams in first round and drafted in 2nd round.

Already every NFL scout knew this. Comparing him to Carson is a much better comparison because so much expectations come with being drafted #1 overall.

Believe with others as well that if Dalton was not hurt he may be playing in this game too.

Unfair comparison ? Bet Carolina would not be in SB without Cam.

[coachmcneil71]

Andy played well this season....thank goodness! Cam's resume and elite talent trumps Andy all day everyday....stronger arm, better mobility,superior height,playoff wins, SB appearance, and soon to be MVP!!!
Those that are trying to make a case for Andy supposedly being better than Cam are just making themselves look foolish.
Wts, I was very happy with Andy's progression last season. Having a healthy stud at the TE position really helped him to improve. I was glad to see the Bengals TE "Cancel Christmas" on the Gresh/Eiffert debate. The one playing in orange is clearly much more of an offensive threat.