Is it time to move on from Dalton

[Brownshoe]

(03-19-2016, 05:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ Which proves my point. AJ McCarron did virtually the exact same thing, only in a bigger game. A game that he had won until Hill fumbled it away. A game which Dalton has filled his pants in 4 times in a row.

You proved my point, though, with that instance you broought up. Virtually the same guy, only in his 4th game McCarron looked as good or better than AD in his 5th season. Especially in pressure games.



A game or two spread out here and there is BS for the talent around him. He wilts and shrinks far more than he rises. Not... even... close.

You do realize that Dalton tore up the #1 ranked defense that game, right? He had 331 yards and 2 TDs even though they took back a 72 yard TD from a ticky tack penalty. While McCarron struggled to get a first down against one of the worst defenses in the league in the playoff game. Only a fool would think that McCarron did anything remotely close to what Dalton did in that Seahawks game.

The funny thing is that Dalton only had good talent around him 2 years (2013 and 2015). All of the other years he had sub par talent around him. I always think it's funny that people want to say that he's had good talent just because AJ Green is on the team.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-19-2016, 05:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ Which proves my point. AJ McCarron did virtually the exact same thing, only in a bigger game. A game that he had won until Hill fumbled it away. A game which Dalton has filled his pants in 4 times in a row.

You proved my point, though, with that instance you broought up. Virtually the same guy, only in his 4th game McCarron looked as good or better than AD in his 5th season. Especially in pressure games.

Lol...

Seahawks:
#2 Overall Defense
#2 Passing Defense
#1 Scoring Defense

Dalton:
68.2% Completion, 331 Yards, 7.5 YPA, 2 TD / 1 INT, 95.9 QB Rating,
7 Rushes, 18 Yards, 1 TD, 0 Fumbles

= 27 Points (w/ 1 Defensive Turnover)
- - - - -

Steelers:
#21 Overall Defense
#30 Passing Defense
#11 Scoring Defense


McCarron:
56.1% Completion, 212 Yards, 5.2 YPA, 1 TD / 1 INT, 68.3 QB Rating

5 Rushes, 9 Yards, 0 TD, 3 Fumbles

= 16 Points (w/ 3 Defensive Turnovers)



- - - - - - - - - -- - - - -

Holy crap, you're right! It's like I am staring at identical twins. I don't know how I never saw that before. Virtually the exact same thing!  

[milksheikh]

Lmao if you notice.. most of the ones that think Andy should be traded/get rid are new to the forums..

[Shake n Blake]

(03-19-2016, 05:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ Which proves my point. AJ McCarron did virtually the exact same thing, only in a bigger game. A game that he had won until Hill fumbled it away. A game which Dalton has filled his pants in 4 times in a row.

You proved my point, though, with that instance you broought up. Virtually the same guy, only in his 4th game McCarron looked as good or better than AD in his 5th season. Especially in pressure games.

Lets be real for a sec. McCarron was garbage in the playoff game. 3 fumbles and a pick, 68.3 rating against one of the worst pass D's in the NFL.

The only reason he had a shot to be a "hero" was that his defense held an outstanding offense to 15 points deep into the 4th quarter.

Heck, McCarron's clutch fumble in OT against the Broncos is why we even had to play the Steelers in the first place.

You may have a point if McCarron actually played well like Dalton did against tough D's like the Cards and Seahawks.

[Brownshoe]

(03-19-2016, 05:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lol...

Seahawks:
#2 Overall Defense
#2 Passing Defense
#1 Scoring Defense

Dalton:
68.2% Completion, 331 Yards, 7.5 YPA, 2 TD / 1 INT, 95.9 QB Rating,
7 Rushes, 18 Yards, 1 TD, 0 Fumbles

= 27 Points (w/ 1 Defensive Turnover)
- - - - -

Steelers:
#21 Overall Defense
#30 Passing Defense
#11 Scoring Defense


McCarron:
56.1% Completion, 212 Yards, 5.2 YPA, 1 TD / 1 INT, 68.3 QB Rating

5 Rushes, 9 Yards, 0 TD, 3 Fumbles

= 16 Points (w/ 3 Defensive Turnovers)



- - - - - - - - - -- - - - -

Holy crap, you're right! It's like I am staring at identical twins. I don't know how I never saw that before. Virtually the exact same thing!  

Yeah that rushing TD that Dalton had with only a few minutes left on the clock was pretty clutch. Yep, McCarron was pretty damn similar to Dalton LOL!

['E']

(03-19-2016, 02:49 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: ^You are putting to much emphasis on Dalton E when it's a known fact that every player seems to disappear in big games under Marvin going all the way back to when he got here.

You are correct about that sir, however Mr. Dalton has been unquestionably horrible in such games and as the QB he catches most of the heat, that's just how it goes.

[Atomic Orange]

[quote pid='195294' dateline='1458430868']

You are correct about that sir, however Mr. Dalton has been unquestionably horrible in such games and as the QB he catches most of the heat, that's just how it goes.
[/quote]

Right, but that doesn't mean it is the correct answer nor the entire story though. Check out run defense against Houston and SD. Gio's fumble against SD. Why isn't AJ Green getting open/making plays? Nobody to throw the ball too in Indy. Why do we come out flat in the 2nd half of all these games? Can't comment on the Pitt game because of broken thumb but the defense kept us in that game. In fact that performance was the best in all of Marvin's tenure (PO's) except for the end of coarse.  ML's PT/PO records speaks for itself. The Bengals as a team crumble under the lights. It could be small city syndrome, lack of night life (Dayton is more exciting than Cincy at night)..who knows. 

[BengalRed]

(03-18-2016, 01:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The more I look at last season compared to the rest of Dalton's career it looks more and more like a fluke.  Now we are looking at a season with an OC who has never held that position before and two of our best WRs gone.  There is a good chance Daton will struggle under these conditions.  And of course he is also trying to come back from an injury.

There are still teams out there desperate for a QB.  We could get a kings ransom for Dalton right now and I always say "sell high".  With the players and/or draft picks we get in return we could solidify the O-line and bring in some quality WRs.  Then we either roll with Mccarron or draft Cordell Jones. They are both Championship QBs.  They know how to win the big games where Dalton always fails.

I made a similar suggestion shortly after the Browns signed Hue as their HC. I started a thread suggesting the Bengals trade Andy to the Browns for their #2 pick (not a second round pick like some people stupidly thought I was suggesting) but THE #2 pick. I was summarily raked over the coals just as you are being. It was just a suggestion but you would have thought I was the devil incarnate.

[Brownshoe]

(03-19-2016, 10:19 PM)BengalRed Wrote: I made a similar suggestion shortly after the Browns signed Hue as their HC. I started a thread suggesting the Bengals trade Andy to the Browns for their #2 pick (not a second round pick like some people stupidly thought I was suggesting) but THE #2 pick. I was summarily raked over the coals just as you are being. It was just a suggestion but you would have thought I was the devil incarnate.

What player at #2 could help this team more than Dalton? No rookie QB could come in and do anywhere near the same, and McCarron has already shown that it's hard for him to score points against any team unless the defense hands him the ball on the opponents side of the field.

[BengalRed]

(03-19-2016, 06:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Lets be real for a sec. McCarron was garbage in the playoff game. 3 fumbles and a pick, 68.3 rating against one of the worst pass D's in the NFL.

The only reason he had a shot to be a "hero" was that his defense held an outstanding offense to 15 points deep into the 4th quarter.

Heck, McCarron's clutch fumble in OT against the Broncos is why we even had to play the Steelers in the first place.

You may have a point if McCarron actually played well like Dalton did against tough D's like the Cards and Seahawks.

Let's remember that there was a cold rain that night. That makes it tough for any QB. Yes AJ fumble three times but only lost one. And he hit AJ Green with a 25 yard TD when the game was on the line.

[BengalRed]

(03-19-2016, 10:30 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: What player at #2 could help this team more than Dalton? No rookie QB could come in and do anywhere near the same, and McCarron has already shown that it's hard for him to score points against any team unless the defense hands him the ball on the opponents side of the field.

I'm not suggesting they get a rookie QB with the #2 pick. But they could get a real playmaker. Plus they would still have the 24th pick. I believe Peter King suggested the Broncos make a trade for AJ Mc. I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have him.

[Brownshoe]

(03-19-2016, 10:40 PM)BengalRed Wrote: I'm not suggesting they get a rookie QB with the #2 pick. But they could get a real playmaker. Plus they would still have the 24th pick. I believe Peter King suggested the Broncos make a trade for AJ Mc. I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have him.

I guess that's why there's been so much noise for McCarron this offseason... Oh wait. There wasn't and people started signing Osweiler and Sanchez over him.

[Joelist]

McCarron only looked good for one half of football the whole time he was in, and that was the first half against Denver because they defended him really wrong. When they adjusted in the second half he looked awful.

[BengalChris]

[Se ky bengal]

(03-18-2016, 01:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The more I look at last season compared to the rest of Dalton's career it looks more and more like a fluke.  Now we are looking at a season with an OC who has never held that position before and two of our best WRs gone.  There is a good chance Daton will struggle under these conditions.  And of course he is also trying to come back from an injury.

There are still teams out there desperate for a QB.  We could get a kings ransom for Dalton right now and I always say "sell high".  With the players and/or draft picks we get in return we could solidify the O-line and bring in some quality WRs.  Then we either roll with Mccarron or draft Cordell Jones. They are both Championship QBs.  They know how to win the big games where Dalton always fails.

I see where Fred is going here

Rep Fred you gave me a laugh this morning and  this is just 1st post and I bet somebody will actually believe this

[Se ky bengal]

(03-19-2016, 10:19 PM)I\m BengalRed Wrote: I made a similar suggestion shortly after the Browns signed Hue as their HC. I started a thread suggesting the Bengals trade Andy to the Browns for their #2 pick (not a second round pick like some people stupidly thought I was suggesting) but THE #2 pick. I was summarily raked over the coals just as you are being. It was just a suggestion but you would have thought I was the devil incarnate.

Boom. getting a bite Fred 
[url=]

[Se ky bengal]

(03-19-2016, 10:40 PM)BengalRed Wrote: I'm not suggesting they get a rookie QB with the #2 pick. But they could get a real playmaker. Plus they would still have the 24th pick. I believe Peter King suggested the Broncos make a trade for AJ Mc. I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have him.

my goodness I mean seriously, why would anyone in the organization or fanbase want to trade Andy? they've  got 5years invested in him and he's finally playing like most of thought he would. Andy was in conversation all season for league mvp, up till his injury 

yep let's throw all that away and start over. I believe with everything in me Andy would have thrown at least 1 TD first half. would not have fumbled 3 times.A lot of teams would love to have him. Mods sorry about 3 post in a roll didn't think anyone would take this seriously

[jfkbengals]

(03-19-2016, 05:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: ^ Which proves my point. AJ McCarron did virtually the exact same thing, only in a bigger game. A game that he had won until Hill fumbled it away. A game which Dalton has filled his pants in 4 times in a row.

You proved my point, though, with that instance you broought up. Virtually the same guy, only in his 4th game McCarron looked as good or better than AD in his 5th season. Especially in pressure games.



A game or two spread out here and there is BS for the talent around him. He wilts and shrinks far more than he rises. Not... even... close.

Really the credit for the win would have to go to the defense, the Oline, and Hill.

We didn't do shit offensively until the cheap play on Gio fired up the oline and Jeremy.  They were after blood in the trenches at that point, and Pitt's inability to stop the rush brought the Pitt pass rush to a halt.

McCarron wasn't some big hero.

[muskiesfan]

I understand the purpose of this thread is to simply to start shit. I also understand that the OP loves to look down his nose at everyone thinking he is the only person who knows anything football. With that said, of course there are people who want to get rid of Dalton.

Dalton simply can't win with Bengals fans. When he plays well, fans still want to criticize specific throws or reads. Dalton wins a game and posts a QB rating over 100 and they'll bring up an over/under throw, not seeing an open receiver, or how he took a sack because an unblocked defender was allowed a wide open shot on him. I'm not saying this pertains to all of Bengals fans, but there is a solid percentage who just do not like Dalton.

I don't understand hating your QB who has helped turn this franchise into a winner. Why get rid of a guy who has done a helluva lot for your favorite franchise? It simply boggles my mind. That's not saying McCarron won't ever be a good starting QB. However, the team would take a step backwards if they decided to trade away Dalton and hand the spot to McCarron.

['E']

(03-19-2016, 05:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lol...

Seahawks:
#2 Overall Defense
#2 Passing Defense
#1 Scoring Defense

Dalton:
68.2% Completion, 331 Yards, 7.5 YPA, 2 TD / 1 INT, 95.9 QB Rating,
7 Rushes, 18 Yards, 1 TD, 0 Fumbles

= 27 Points (w/ 1 Defensive Turnover)
- - - - -

Steelers:
#21 Overall Defense
#30 Passing Defense
#11 Scoring Defense


McCarron:
56.1% Completion, 212 Yards, 5.2 YPA, 1 TD / 1 INT, 68.3 QB Rating

5 Rushes, 9 Yards, 0 TD, 3 Fumbles

= 16 Points (w/ 3 Defensive Turnovers)



- - - - - - - - - -- - - - -

Holy crap, you're right! It's like I am staring at identical twins. I don't know how I never saw that before. Virtually the exact same thing!  

Here are Dalton's numbers against that lousy Steeler defense...

23-38 for 231 yds with 1 TD and 2 INT good for a 64.7 QB rating.

Led the bengals to 16 total points 13 of which came on drives that started on Pittsburghs side of the field (thank you defense and special teams)

I won't mention his 3-5 , 59 yard with 1 INT, 61.7 rating effort in thier next meeting , but that happened too......While I'm at it here are McCarron's cold off the bench numbers in relief of Andy in that game......

22-32 for 280 yds with 2 TD and 2 INT good for a 90.6 rating.