04-26-2016, 12:43 PM
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Parenting and Lying
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04-26-2016, 02:02 PM
(04-25-2016, 07:11 PM)Benton Wrote: Depends on the age. Mostly, I tell the truth. (04-25-2016, 07:55 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: Then later they ask their Uncle Ted about you when you were a teenager, and Uncle Ted busts a gut telling them how high you were most of your teenage years and all your credibility with them goes right about the window. Exactly right gentlemen.....and if those questions are asked, and I give them the correct answers, I will ALSO warn them of the pitfalls and the bad consequences I faced as a result of some of those decisions. Nothing like speaking from experience to sell a point. Now as for Santa and the like, no way am I robbing my preschoolers of the joys of childhood, nor am I going against my assertion that we were wrasslin'.... "Better send those refunds..."
04-26-2016, 10:03 PM
(04-26-2016, 09:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So you never told your kids there was a Santa Clause? 1. No. When did I say anything about my own parenting - or even state whether I have children? One of the biggest problems with this MB - and perhaps our culture in general - is the assumptions and/or inferences people make. I never once said, "Here is my manifesto on parenting," or anything of that sort. I did state I have heard numerous (dozens, maybe even hundreds) talk about how devastated they were when they learned they could not trust their parents. Sometimes it was over a myth, sometimes it was over something much more serious (what happened to their pet, their sister, their grandmother, etc.). So, the question is whether it is worth examining if parents should be more deliberate in choosing what to tell their children and whether they should consider being more forthright about all things - the "fun" (Santa, Easter Bunny, what causes farts) and the not so fun (health, education, well being). 2. Again, when did I say I know what lies kids tell and why they tell them? I simply suggested there may be a parallel - and to me there seems to be a parallel - between honest parents having kids who are honest with them and dishonest parents having kids who are dishonest with them. I am not claiming anything. I am asking - does this make sense? Has anyone ever thought critically about it? I honestly expected broader opinions than what I have read so far, which is basically, "**** you, I lie to my kids as easily as I change my socks and how dare you question my abilities as a parent" and "to even raise the topic is strange." Well, OK, those opinions are valid and apparently prevalent here. That is what I wanted to know - what people think. But my sense is they are reacting and not really thinking much at all. I solicited opinions, and I got some, and I gave some feedback on them, but never said I never deceived a kid and never said I know all about all. I am thinking about this and wanted some grist for the mill. 3. Whether I am a parent or not is not germane to the discussion. The age of any children I may have is not germane. As Dylan said, "You don't have to be a weather man to know which way the wind is blowing." You don't have to have played football (or any sport) to coach it, be a fan of it, or have an opinion about it. It is just irrelevant. And again, I never said I never lied to children (be they mine or another's) and I even acknowledged there may be "must lie situations" involving children and adults. But they seem to be a matter of politeness (like not saying someone's newborn is ugly - at least not to the parent) and I wonder if we as a culture (or all cultures) are too cavalier about deceit whether for politeness sake, some other reason, or no reason.
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
04-26-2016, 10:08 PM
(04-26-2016, 11:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: You can do whatever you want with your own kid, but when your kid starts telling other kids at 5 years old there is no Santa be prepared for your kid to become a social leper. There will be consequences for treating your child like an adult while they are children ,and that could possibly be their inability to relate socially with their peers. It seems that door swings both ways. Some parents treat a five year old more like a ten to fifteen year old than a five month old, and seem to have good results. The case can be made that these kids relate better with peers, are more tolerant, mature faster, do better as adults, and are impeded only by the infantiizing perpetrated by others on their own kids. There are many ways to rear a child. The majority is not always right. I mean, centuries ago it was common for husbands to beat and rape their wives. Just because most did it doesn't mean it is or was a superior way to conduct a marriage.
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
04-26-2016, 10:14 PM
(04-26-2016, 11:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am pretty sure that XXLT does not even have children. If he did he would understand the concept of "emotional maturity". Young children are just not emotionally mature enough to understand certain concepts. A 5 year old child will not be able to understand why sex is a good thing if it makes his mommy scream. It isn't A or B. You don't have to show the five year old a sex ed video or tell a blatant lie. You can say nothing, you can say you wouldn't understand, you can say when you are older we will revisit this. Or again, maybe you lie about some things out of necessity but reflect on whether you do so too often or too readily - if maybe sometimes it is not necessary. You don't have to treat a five year old like an imbecile or a genius. There is a continuum. A five year old understands a heck of a lot in many instances, and pretending they don't may be detrimental to all involved. Does that mean treating kindergarten kids like adults? No, but it also doesn't mean treating them like vegetables.
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
04-26-2016, 10:18 PM
(04-26-2016, 11:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Perfect analogy. Perfect analogy indeed. God's faithful (and we got a few here) repeatedly ignore the voice of the prophets He has sent and/or inspired to tell them difficult truths they don't want to face. And in ignoring the prophetic voice, they turn away from God and continue to disappoint Him and prevent his Kingdom from being realized.
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
04-26-2016, 10:21 PM
(04-26-2016, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But they rebel against oppressive parenting. I agree very much with the above post. It was articulated by a wise person this way (when answering a question about child rearing): treat them [kids] all the same by treating them different. I know some very successful coaches adhere to this philosophy with athletes as well.
JOHN ROBERTS: From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice... I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
04-26-2016, 11:00 PM
(04-26-2016, 12:27 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Thanks for the FB update, had no idea. So how do you solve for decentralized social interactions super dad? Might as well take the Internet away from them and handcuff their future. I think you're thinking that Im talking about some deep rooted covert CIA/Special Ops situation where you monitor their every move, word, and syllable. That's not it and that's impossible to do. What Im saying is a casual monitoring of what they're up to, what their mood is, and what their friends are doing. And it's my opinion that you really have to do it. My brother in law that I referenced above, being a "stay out of their business and give them free reign because they're just going to hate you and do what they want to do anyway" parent, he doesn't monitor his kids interactions at all. Well as I said above, he's having trouble with the MJ (been arrested TWICE already at age 16) and has experimented recently with Oxy. We know this because his ex wife DOES snoop through his stuff and read some texts. Thankfully through her reaching out to my wife and the both of them talking sense into him (he blew it off as the kid was just experimenting like he used to do) they have gotten together and are getting help for the kid. Its scary as the kid at only 16 is well on his way to heroin trouble and if my BIL's ex had the same attitude as him, he would no doubt be even closer today.
04-26-2016, 11:07 PM
(04-26-2016, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But they rebel against oppressive parenting. Are you under the impression that firm parenting = oppressive parenting? For the love of Pete..... I'm not Muslim. As to your coach analogy.... Did you respect the "fun" coach who was your buddy and let you get by or did you respect the coaches that pushed you and were right there to correct you when you messed up?
04-26-2016, 11:09 PM
(04-26-2016, 12:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But they rebel against oppressive parenting. You are absolutely right about treating each kid individually. But you do have to have a general style. And I agree with StLucie, it is your job to be firm and be their parent, not their friend. You can be firm without being oppressive. I keep referring to my bro in law. The guy is the cool dad who keeps a loose rein on his kids and he's having trouble with the oldest already.
04-26-2016, 11:14 PM
(04-26-2016, 10:03 PM)xxlt Wrote: U Your parenting chops are germane. When I was younger and had no children I went through the phase of its great to treat kids as equals and tell them everything. Because it was the "right" thing to do so they liked me. Fortunately I didn't have children then when I had these ridiculous notions. Age and expierence has allowed me to see where friends and family have gone wrong. This has also allowed me enough time to formulate a method I am comfortable. And lastly ...... The got dang Germans got nothin to do with this ...
04-26-2016, 11:26 PM
(04-26-2016, 11:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Are you under the impression that firm parenting = oppressive parenting? For the love of Pete..... I'm not Muslim. There has never been a parent who admits to being an oppressive parent. Does that mean none exist? A "firm" parent believes in discipline. An "oppressive" parent believes that their children must have the exact same beliefs that they have. I have heard you talk about the strict rules you have about how your daughters can dress and what sports are forbidden to them. Those have ZERO to do with discipline. Instead they are about forcing the children to believe and think exactly like you. So, yes, you are clearly an oppressive parent.
04-26-2016, 11:44 PM
(04-26-2016, 11:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There has never been a parent who admits to being an oppressive parent. Lol strict rules? You mean dressing like little girls? Their mom chooses what they wear. My girls do wear pants and shorts you know. Like I said I'm not Muslim lol And as far as sports ..... You mean my desire that they play sports with other girls? How oppressive of me lol
04-27-2016, 12:19 AM
(04-26-2016, 11:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: As to your coach analogy.... Did you respect the "fun" coach who was your buddy and let you get by or did you respect the coaches that pushed you and were right there to correct you when you messed up? This question makes no sense. A really good coach can be fun and still motivate you to do your best and correct you when you mess up. the fact that you don't think this is possible proves that you were probably a pretty lame coach.
04-27-2016, 12:21 AM
04-27-2016, 12:22 AM
(04-26-2016, 11:44 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lol strict rules? You Prick !!
04-27-2016, 12:24 AM
(04-26-2016, 11:44 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You mean dressing like little girls? Their mom chooses what they wear. My girls do wear pants and shorts you know. Like I said I'm not Muslim lol Why does everything have to be about your xenophobic slurs with you? Plenty of Muslim girls wear pants and shorts.
04-27-2016, 12:32 AM
(04-27-2016, 12:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This question makes no sense. I was a respected coach. Coaches job is simple... Set goals and the plan to reach those goals and ensure that the plan is followed. players want to be coached hard on the field. You are obviously confusing on field demeanor and off field demeanor. The fact you can't tell the difference just shows why the position some of us are speaking of in parenting is going over your head. And predictably you default to directly insulting me. This is your second post in a row tossing an insult at me instead of staying on topic.
04-27-2016, 12:33 AM
04-27-2016, 12:41 AM
(04-27-2016, 12:32 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: players want to be coached hard on the field. You are obviously confusing on field demeanor and off field demeanor. The fact you can't tell the difference just shows why the position some of us are speaking of in parenting is going over your head. No. I am not confusing anything. Averyone here is just twisting my words to what they want to say. All I ever said was that I never respected a coach who just screamed and yelled all the time. There are lots of people around here who think a coach has to scream like a madman to be a good coach. I strongly disagree with this. Some of the best coaches are the ones who don't just scream and yell to motivate players. My dad was strict with me yet he was still my friend. It is sad that some of you think you have to be an asshole to your kids in order to be a good parent. It is not a bad thing to be friends with your children. |
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