Last 3 Years of 1st and 2nd rounders

[*psychdoctor*]

I would hope the Bengals did not whiff on drafting the two OTs in Fisher and Og. Keep in mind it could be the new offense schemes, zone blocking issues. The Team may want to draft more OT next draft because Whit is getting older. They may need top center. Hell, if big Z leaves, they may need another guard to back up Westerman.

Then there is always a need for another TE since Eifert is made of glass. Peko is getting up there in age so another DT/DE.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-17-2016, 09:01 AM)Wyche Wrote: I dunno.....I think it's poor coaching versus talent issues in the playoffs.  There is definitely a talent dropoff this season though....and bad coaching.

I agree. Last year, we had arguably more talent than any team in the AFC.

We had the playoff game against the Steelers won...a late lead, we just had to run out the clock. Instead...epic meltdown.

The teams that win in the playoffs have the best coaching typically.

[lostpoet2]

(10-17-2016, 10:20 AM)bengals67 Wrote: You nailed it

Lack of pass rush in second half yesterday is why Brady picked us apart.

Pass rush makes DBs look great. No pass rush makes DBs look awful.

Slow linebackers that can't consistently get burned by tight ends and running backs were also too blame.

[Daddy-O]

(10-17-2016, 07:44 AM)sonofstat Wrote: I was not impressed with the Og pick so not as surprised he's struggling...despite the Alexander hype.

The one which is looking like a bust which REALLY surprises me is Dennard.

It's rare for Lewis to call out a rookie as being impressive but he did for dennard, Zim was high on him and said he was like Leon Hall.  

I don't trust DreK and was sure by this point Dennard would have replaced him and we could let Dre go.  Not sure Dennard ever gets there....

Alexander sucks at evaluating talent.  I can't think of one of his projects that panned out.  Whit, Zeitler and Whit were legit out of college, the rest???

[Benton]

Well, here's my 2 cents.

We've approached every draft since 2011 (except one) like we're in rebuild mode for our corners and OL. And even in the one -out-of-five exception, we took a TE and a RB. One of those was definitely a BPA and a position of need, the other (Hill) was a good pick, but we already had a lot of guys on the bench. Which is the same problem we've run into and "wasted" picks the other five drafts. We keep selecting linemen and corners to play down the road because they aren't that much better than the vets on the team. Which leaves other positions woefully behind.

I don't get the concept of having significant positions needs year after year and drafting the same few positions in 5-6 years while you've got guys on the bench drafted in some cases reasonably high. Two corners each in 2012 & 2014, one each in 2015 & 2016. Three of those six are first round picks. We've also got a healthy number of linemen we've taken, but I can't remember how many off the top of my head.

The last two seasons especially have felt like the Bengals aren't looking to replace a player here and there and continue to improve. It's more like they're trying to reload and get ready for a few years down the road. Which, to me, seems like a horrible waste of the talent on this team.

[Bengal Dude]

(10-17-2016, 04:32 PM)Benton Wrote: The last two seasons especially have felt like the Bengals aren't looking to replace a player here and there and continue to improve. It's more like they're trying to reload and get ready for a few years down the road. Which, to me, seems like a horrible waste of the talent on this team.

This is exactly my thinking. They can throw out the BPA term all they want, but as soon as we pick a guy, your first thought is "I guess this guy will see some significant playing time in 2-3 years" while we look at other holes on the team not get filled. The first round CB thing is getting real old. As soon as we took WJ3, I started wondering if he was supposed to replace Dre or Dennard. Our drafts have looked good on paper, but right now, no one is stepping up.

[THE PISTONS]

They drafted to replace high-priced veterans...Newman, Hall, Smith, and Whitworth. It was largely financially motivated.

They also draft players at positions early that cost a lot of money in free agency...so they get cheap labor for 5 years.

[fredtoast]

(10-17-2016, 03:52 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Alexander sucks at evaluating talent.  I can't think of one of his projects that panned out.  Whit, Zeitler and Whit were legit out of college, the rest???

Alexander has been the Bengals O-line coach for 21 years and until we drafted Og and Fisher he had never had a high draft pick that did not pan out (unlike every other team in the league).  Only one O-lineman taken in the top three rounds over the last 22 years has failed to become a starter (Rod Payne, 3rd round, 1997)

On the other hand Paul has developed many players who were not high draft picks.  Mike Goff was a 3rd rounder who was an NFL starter for 10 years, Rich Braham was released by the Cards and signed off the street by the Bengals, Stacy Andrews was a 4th round pick.  Kyle Cook was an undrafted free agent.  Nate Livings was an undrafted free agent.  Anthony Collins was a 4th round pick.  Boling was a 4th round pick.

[fredtoast]

(10-17-2016, 12:04 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: We always hear "first round picks don't have to play, then sitting the bench is a good thing".  Yet you look at the more successful teams in the league, teams like the Patriots and Seahawks, and their top picks are expected to contribute immediately. 

Actually this is not true.

After the top 10 picks of the '15 draft (all bad teams) only 10 of the other 22 first round picks were starers an half of the second round picks (16) were starers as rookies.

[Millhouse]

I hate to say it, but with the lackluster drafts they have been having, the future is looking bleaker and bleaker for a playoff run. I know the drafts are crapshoots, but when that is the primary means to build the team, they have got to nail more picks for more success down the road.

[fredtoast]

So we can't draft and we don't sign any good free agents......

Yet the reason our coaches are so bad is because they can't win with "one of the most talented rosters in the league"?

Anyone see a problem with this argument?

[TKUHL]

I didnt like drafting OT with our first 2 picks but most people and experts was raving about how smart it was. Maybe we just need to accept the fact that these guys suck. We went all in and it back fired. I was shocked that Ced got benched. When was the last time a starter on a Marvin Lewis team lost their job due to anything other than an injury. For some reason we always draft a CB high even though they usually dont pan out. I remember when Marvin said Dennard was the best CB he has coached out of college. What happen with that. What burns my ass is how Marvin is this LB "guru" but has yet to draft a legit LB that can get to the QB and cover. I know injury's and just bad luck played a role in this Pollack/Thurman, but in 14 years our best LB has been a UDFA wtf. With the recent drafts we should have at least one legit shut down corner and a O line ranked in the top 5, instead those positions are this teams achilles.

[Goalpost]

(10-17-2016, 01:56 PM)lostpoet2 Wrote: Slow linebackers that can't consistently get burned by tight ends and running backs were also too blame.

 I heard a stat earlier for this past game, don't know if it accurate, but Brady went 19/19 when throwing it at Shaw, Burfict, or Dansby.

[OrlandoBengal]

(10-17-2016, 06:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually this is not true.

After the top 20 picks of the '15 draft (all bad teams) only 10 of the other 22 first round picks were starers an half of the second round picks (16) were starers as rookies.

So let me get this straight... we have the top 20 picks all went to bad teams.  On top of that there were an additional 22 first round picks, so you're saying there were a total of 42 first round picks in the 2015 draft?  And yes, I do watch many games in the NFL where teams have rookies who start.

[fredtoast]

(10-17-2016, 07:12 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: So let me get this straight... we have the top 20 picks all went to bad teams.  On top of that there were an additional 22 first round picks, so you're saying there were a total of 42 first round picks in the 2015 draft?  And yes, I do watch many games in the NFL where teams have rookies who start.

Typo corrected.

after top 10 picks.  not 20.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-17-2016, 04:32 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, here's my 2 cents.

We've approached every draft since 2011 (except one) like we're in rebuild mode for our corners and OL. And even in the one -out-of-five exception, we took a TE and a RB. One of those was definitely a BPA and a position of need, the other (Hill) was a good pick, but we already had a lot of guys on the bench. Which is the same problem we've run into and "wasted" picks the other five drafts. We keep selecting linemen and corners to play down the road because they aren't that much better than the vets on the team. Which leaves other positions woefully behind.

I  don't get the concept of having significant positions needs year after year and drafting the same few positions in 5-6 years while you've got guys on the bench drafted in some cases reasonably high. Two corners each in 2012 & 2014, one each in 2015 & 2016. Three of those six are first round picks. We've also got a healthy number of linemen we've taken, but I can't remember how many off the top of my head.

The last two seasons especially have felt like the Bengals aren't looking to replace a player here and there and continue to improve. It's more like they're trying to reload and get ready for a few years down the road. Which, to me, seems like a horrible waste of the talent on this team.

Bengals are looking at the future that the Reds are living in. Had a bunch of talent, but never went all in at any given time, so you had a stretch of good/okay years, never won anything of note, and then you'll start a decline once that talent you have is gone/has declined and have not much to show for it.

Half-in approaches pretty much always result in a waste of a year of a talented team.

(10-17-2016, 07:12 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: So let me get this straight... we have the top 20 picks all went to bad teams.  On top of that there were an additional 22 first round picks, so you're saying there were a total of 42 first round picks in the 2015 draft?  And yes, I do watch many games in the NFL where teams have rookies who start.

Eh, it's just Fred nonsense, ignore it. Even if he corrects his numbers, I bet he'd include guys who got season ending injuries in camp to his list to make it look like the Bengals are better.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The Bengals have had excellent drafts since approximately 2009 and Marvin Lewis does a good job at evaluating and acquiring talent -- but the Cincinnati coaching staff stinks at developing it. I'm not upset at Cedric Ogbuehi, Russell Bodine, or Darqueze Dennard because these studs were beasts in college. However, I want to pimp-slap some coaches for ruining the technique learned in great college programs. Cedric was amazing at A&M, Russell blocked masterfully for Giovani Bernard at North Carolina, and Michigan State fans didn't call Darqueze "no fly zone" for nothing.

Developing the talent is what's missing.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

The problem with the Bengals is that they draft for the future, not for immediate starters. It is ok to do that, but you better pick up some solid free agents to cover the gaps..well, we all know about their free agency strategy. It eventually comes back around to haunt them....as we are witnessing now.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-17-2016, 08:41 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The Bengals have had excellent drafts since approximately 2009 and Marvin Lewis does a good job at evaluating and acquiring talent -- but the Cincinnati coaching staff stinks at developing it.  I'm not upset at Cedric Ogbuehi, Russell Bodine, or Darqueze Dennard because these studs were beasts in college.  However, I want to pimp-slap some coaches for ruining the technique learned in great college programs.  Cedric was amazing at A&M, Russell blocked masterfully for Giovani Bernard at North Carolina, and Michigan State fans didn't call Darqueze "no fly zone" for nothing.

Developing the talent is what's missing.

Agreed,

Developing the talent and I'd add properly utilizing said talent. Know when and how to use who where/play calling. Designing offense defnse around what we have and just on and on.

This coaching staff is a complete joke.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-17-2016, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Alexander has been the Bengals O-line coach for 21 years and until we drafted Og and Fisher he had never had a high draft pick that did not pan out (unlike every other team in the league).  Only one O-lineman taken in the top three rounds over the last 22 years has failed to become a starter (Rod Payne, 3rd round, 1997)

On the other hand Paul has developed many players who were not high draft picks.  Mike Goff was a 3rd rounder who was an NFL starter for 10 years, Rich Braham was released by the Cards and signed off the street by the Bengals, Stacy Andrews was a 4th round pick.  Kyle Cook was an undrafted free agent.  Nate Livings was an undrafted free agent.  Anthony Collins was a 4th round pick.  Boling was a 4th round pick.

Here we go again.....Nate Livings was atrocious....Cook....one good year.  Andrews was serviceable....Collins was decent....and Boling was a highly regarded prospect in that draft.  You need the links AGAIN?