Defensive Personnel changes coming?

[sonofstat]

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Defense-considering-personnel-changes/690641b1-66c0-40a5-8147-b2aa3e47b221

Sounds like Paulie G wants to rattle some cages in the bye week too.

maybe more Will Clarke, Sims, Shaw, Smith and Vigil??

[*michaelsean*]

I'll believe it when I see it, and if your replacement isn't any better, then there's no reason to do it.

[Crowe]

(11-01-2016, 03:35 PM)sonofstat Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Defense-considering-personnel-changes/690641b1-66c0-40a5-8147-b2aa3e47b221

Sounds like Paulie G wants to rattle some cages in the bye week too.

maybe more Will Clarke, Sims, Shaw, Smith and Vigil??

Will it happen, who knows. Should it happen, ABSOLUTELY! Vigil and Shaw should have been seeing more pt since the beginning of the season along with Smith who could be that playmaker we're lacking right now. With how mediocre Michael J. and Peko have been it would be nice to see more of both Clarke and Hunt. Maybe we can trade McCarron to the Jets for Richardson as long as we could resign him without breaking the bank...one can dream right?

[Pat5775]

Change the scheme first, won't make any difference who's out there if they're coached to play 10-15 yards off receivers. #BresnahanIsBack

[jj22]

I think it's time to rotate Williams and Sims by week like they did Sims and B.T. We need to know what we have in these players in this down year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-01-2016, 03:35 PM)sonofstat Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Defense-considering-personnel-changes/690641b1-66c0-40a5-8147-b2aa3e47b221

Sounds like Paulie G wants to rattle some cages in the bye week too.

maybe more Will Clarke, Sims, Shaw, Smith and Vigil??

Good!  It's high time this team got on some people's asses!  

FWIW, I like the line better with Sims and Clarke.  Shaw has looked ok too.  Why not shake it up?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-01-2016, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think it's time to rotate Williams and Sims by week like they did Sims and B.T. We need to know what we have in these players in this down year.

Hell, I say roll with Sims and Williams, and let Peko go week to week.

[sonofstat]

(11-01-2016, 03:45 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'll believe it when I see it, and if your replacement isn't any better, then there's no reason to do it.

never know until you try.  

If he's happy that his position coaches are doing an OK job and that his game planning is OK but its poor player execution letting them down then why should he not start making some changes??- its his neck on the line after all...

I remember from after the Dallas game him saying they had planned and practiced for the exact run looks they saw and they still did not get anywhere near stopping Elliot.  

Certainly its not often you hear this type of talk in the media from Lewis so the fact that Guenther has even said this would indicate its something he's seriously looking at.

Aside from all of that anything which allows us to see whether dennard, shaw, clarke, vigil etc can be starters in the future is not bad thing for me.  If we end up missing playoffs and going into next season/ draft without really knowing what these guys can do then we really don't get much from this season defensively

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2016, 04:12 PM)sonofstat Wrote: If he's happy that his position coaches are doing an OK job and that his game planning is OK but its poor player execution letting them down then why should he not start making some changes??- its his neck on the line after all...

Coaches play the best players they have exactly because it is their neck on the line.

Coaches see all of these players everyday in practice.  They know which ones are best.

[wolfkaosaun]

Shaw should stay in the nickel CB position. No need to put him elsewhere, he excels there.

Sims and Clarke are good rotational payers, but don't believe they'd be good starters.

We need better play calling. Heck. 7 times against the Redskins Guenther put MJ or Dunlap drop into coverage. Some happened on 3rd down.

The hard thing is, are there really any better players on the bench? Sure. We talk about Vigil because of how he looked in preseason, but I'm pretty sure Erickson has shown us to take the preseason with a grain of salt.

There needs to be changes, but they also need to draft better. We may see a huge overhaul on the defense in 2017. And we need one. Including DC.

In 2014, we had the 22nd best defense. Years before? 3rd. 6th. And 7th.
Points per game? 5th. 8th. And 9th.
In 2014 with him as DC, 12th in points scored. But also had the least sacks in the league. Something the Bengals were once known for.

This year? Rank 24th in defense. Tied for 19th in scoring defense. Given up 16 passing TDs. Ranked 28th in the league, tied with Carolina.

Guenther did well in 2015. I will give him that. But our defense has not been consistent. We used to be a defense teams feared, even on 3rd down. Now? 40.6% 3rd down percentage against us.

I think our position coach changes may be the least talked about thing. We've taken steps back on that, especially on defense. New DB coach. New LB coach. New DL coach. And almost everyone on defense has taken a step back.

[Sled21]

Is he talking to Jones? Atkins? Kirkpatrick? The whole linebacking corp???

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Defense-considering-personnel-changes/690641b1-66c0-40a5-8147-b2aa3e47b221

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-01-2016, 04:16 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Shaw should stay in the nickel CB position. No need to put him elsewhere, he excels there.

Sims and Clarke are good rotational payers, but don't believe they'd be good starters.

We need better play calling. Heck. 7 times against the Redskins Guenther put MJ or Dunlap drop into coverage. Some happened on 3rd down.

The hard thing is, are there really any better players on the bench? Sure. We talk about Vigil because of how he looked in preseason, but I'm pretty sure Erickson has shown us to take the preseason with a grain of salt.

There needs to be changes, but they also need to draft better. We may see a huge overhaul on the defense in 2017. And we need one. Including DC.

In 2014, we had the 22nd best defense. Years before? 3rd. 6th. And 7th.
Points per game? 5th. 8th. And 9th.
In 2014 with him as DC, 12th in points scored. But also had the least sacks in the league. Something the Bengals were once known for.

This year? Rank 24th in defense. Tied for 19th in scoring defense. Given up 16 passing TDs. Ranked 28th in the league, tied with Carolina.

Guenther did well in 2015. I will give him that. But our defense has not been consistent. We used to be a defense teams feared, even on 3rd down. Now? 40.6% 3rd down percentage against us.

I think our position coach changes may be the least talked about thing. We've taken steps back on that, especially on defense. New DB coach. New LB coach. New DL coach. And almost everyone on defense has taken a step back.

All good points, but with Peko and MJ getting a little bit up in years, I wonder if they wouldn't be more effective rested coming off the bench. Sims is solid against the run, and Clarke has generated some pressure in somewhat limited action.

[Yojimbo]

I'm not sure what changes can be made that haven't already been mentioned. I think the biggest change could come on the D-line with Clarke taking over and Williams finally being active on game day.

I'd like to see more of Shawn Williams playing LB on passing downs with Smith or Shaw at safety. Shaw has been amazing at CB this year, but we need to get Dennard on the field and possibly Jackson soon, just to evaluate and get them some experience. If we can improve the LB and Safety play with that move, while maintaining the CB play it could go a long way.

[sonofstat]

(11-01-2016, 04:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Coaches play the best players they have exactly because it is their neck on the line.

Coaches see all of these players everyday in practice.  They know which ones are best.

Of course...but as the quote indicates maybe Guenther's view on who the best guys are in certain positions and/or circumstances has been challenged by what they are actually now seeing on game day over 8 weeks.

Paul Alexander clearly thought Ced Ogbuehi was the best player for RT when he made him starter and stuck with him until it became untenable - he since adjusted and is mixing more of his time with Winston which looks like it has had some limited positive impact.

If Guenther is now looking at making similar adjustments based on production and not reputation then I'm all for it.

[leonardfan40]

(11-01-2016, 04:28 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Is he talking to Jones? Atkins? Kirkpatrick? The whole linebacking corp???

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Defense-considering-personnel-changes/690641b1-66c0-40a5-8147-b2aa3e47b221

I imagine he's talking about getting Vinny Rey, Will Clarke, and maybe Derron Smith into the lineup. Possibly Vigil too? Doubt he's talking about anyone you mentioned just because we don't have much behind them. Already use 3 CB's most plays so gotta have those 2 out there more often then not. Also doesn't sound like he's planning any real benchings just more rotations.

[*michaelsean*]

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Defensive-Personnel-changes-coming

[Sabretooth]

(11-01-2016, 04:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Coaches see all of these players everyday in practice.  They know which ones are best.

When they practice it's against other Bengals.
When games are played it's against NFL talent.
How did we look against the cowboys or patriots ?, or redskins passing game ?
Wonder how our coaches grade our players after reviewing game film ?

[sonofstat]

(11-01-2016, 04:40 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: I imagine he's talking about getting Vinny Rey, Will Clarke, and maybe Derron Smith into the lineup. Possibly Vigil too? Doubt he's talking about anyone you mentioned just because we don't have much behind them. Already use 3 CB's most plays so gotta have those 2 out there more often then not. Also doesn't sound like he's planning any real benchings just more rotations.

I'm guessing that Peko and MJ could be losing some playing time.

At LB i would say Rey M but he does not seem to be getting on the field as much this year anyway (some of that is the Offenses we've faced)

I have no clue what's going on in our secondary at the moment so very interested to see if anyone loses some snaps - most people on the board seem to be leaning towards scheme and Coyle as being the issue here so intrigued to see if any player in particular is earmarked by Guenther

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2016, 04:52 PM)Sabretooth Wrote:

Wow.  What profound logic,  How can I ever argue with that.  Oh wait, I know.....

Perhaps you could provide a list of all the guys who sat the bench in Cincinnati but went on to be great players elsewhere.  I can only think of a couple over the last decade while the Bengal coaching staff have done very well with players that floundered elsewhere.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2016, 04:52 PM)Sabretooth Wrote: When they practice it's against other Bengals.
When games are played it's against NFL talent.

Are you claiming that the Bengals don't have "NFL talent" on their team?

And I must have missed it where every other team in the league plays all of their back ups instead of starers just to see how good they are.