For those that want a HC change....

[Bengalbug]

(11-15-2016, 11:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What's the point? We're not making the playoffs.

They'd move a guy like Guenther into the HC spot where he'd be setup to fail. Then probably Coyle to DC where he wasn't good in Miami. Then you'd need a new DB coach.

It would create upheaval.

The only advantage that I can see is that a new HC might play younger players more...but even that is speculative as coaches generally play veterans to try to win...especially in a tryout role.

You are correct.  That was the point of my thread.

[740Bengal]

(11-15-2016, 11:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What's the point? We're not making the playoffs.

They'd move a guy like Guenther into the HC spot where he'd be setup to fail. Then probably Coyle to DC where he wasn't good in Miami. Then you'd need a new DB coach.

It would create upheaval.

The only advantage that I can see is that a new HC might play younger players more...but even that is speculative as coaches generally play veterans to try to win...especially in a tryout role.

You don't understand how BAD Marvin is, I mean he is one of the worst coaches in the history of the sport at any level above junior high. 

[Bengalbug]

(11-15-2016, 11:18 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: They will not fire Marvin mid-season. That's not going to happen. And honestly I'm not seeing a competent HC on our sidelines. Those guys have gone on to greener pastures. We need a new face & attitude in a bad way.

Agree.  One thing i have learned is life is that you can't complain about something without offering a better solution.  Those who want him fired haven't really thought about that I don't think.  I heard d Simmons and could get behind that.  But I just think that won't fix 

[740Bengal]

(11-15-2016, 11:23 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Agree.  One thing i have learned is life is that you can't complain about something without offering a better solution.  Those who want him fired haven't really thought about that I don't think.  I heard d Simmons and could get behind that.  But I just think that won't fix 

ANYBODY WOULD BE BETTER...ANYONE.. 

[Clappington]

I hate to be person do it but it's no coincidence that they kept asking Tom Coughlin if he wanted to coach again and he kept saying if it's the right situation. Would any of you be on board to have him here? We clearly have to go outside the house to hire someone so just a thought.

[masonbengals fan]

I'd take Coughlin any day and twice on Sunday.

[XenoMorph]

(11-15-2016, 10:59 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Our defense is so vanilla that it's laughable. On 3rd and 1, our CB's give 7 yards of cushion to the WR. I can't see that being all on the HC.

Vigil is who you're referring to. I did see Dennard out there more. I saw Core on offense. I think there have been changes made. Winston was in for Cedric throughout the year.

Vigil was the 2nd LB on his team drafted and he wasn't from a big-time conference. I feel like he probably just isn't ready.

dude Credric looks like hot garbage out there... He might survive a few years in the NFL as a OG  but he isn't playing well enough to protect the QB from the tackle spot imo.  

Might have to go OT to start next years draft.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-15-2016, 11:21 AM)740Bengal Wrote: You don't understand how BAD Marvin is, I mean he is one of the worst coaches in the history of the sport at any level above junior high. 

He's not. He's an above average HC. He came here after about 15 years of 3-13 football and turned things around.

He also was the DC on one of the best defenses in NFL history.

Marvin is just not a great Head Coach. And I think it takes a great HC to go to a team without a GM and a small scouting department to succeed.

[Bengalbug]

(11-15-2016, 11:24 AM)740Bengal Wrote: ANYBODY WOULD BE BETTER...ANYONE.. 

That's just false.

[740Bengal]

(11-15-2016, 11:34 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He's not. He's an above average HC. He came here after about 15 years of 3-13 football and turned things around.

He also was the DC on one of the best defenses in NFL history.

Marvin is just not a great Head Coach. And I think it takes a great HC to go to a team without a GM and a small scouting department to succeed.

[samhain]

(11-15-2016, 11:24 AM)740Bengal Wrote: ANYBODY WOULD BE BETTER...ANYONE.. 

I think an internal hire like Guenther would be worse.  Zero culture change and zero threat to entrenched players that aren't playing to their potential.  I'd almost rather just keep marvin and hire some better position coaches or coordinators.  Marvin does just fine when he has top-notch help on staff.  Haslett, Burney, and Coyle should get shitcanned as soon as the lockers are cleaned out.  They have taken a perennial top 10 defense and turned it into a laughingstock.  I really don't care if they take Guenther with them, either.

[samhain]

(11-15-2016, 11:28 AM)Clappington Wrote: I hate to be person do it but it's no coincidence that they kept asking Tom Coughlin if he wanted to coach again and he kept saying if it's the right situation. Would any of you be on board to have him here? We clearly have to go outside the house to hire someone so just a thought.

Maybe.  He might be able to get something out of Andy/Aj's remaining years.  He doesn't have to coach here for ten seasons.  Just get us all he can out of these guys before they're done, and hire a new HC when he's ready to retire.  Start a true rebuild with a new qb at that point.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-15-2016, 11:42 AM)samhain Wrote: I think an internal hire like Guenther would be worse.  Zero culture change and zero threat to entrenched players that aren't playing to their potential.  I'd almost rather just keep marvin and hire some better position coaches or coordinators.  Marvin does just fine when he has top-notch help on staff.  Haslett, Burney, and Coyle should get shitcanned as soon as the lockers are cleaned out.  They have taken a perennial top 10 defense and turned it into a laughingstock.  I really don't care if they take Guenther with them, either.

I think I lean towards your way of thinking.

I remember when Coyle left here people talked about it like they talk about Hue and Zimmer leaving.

Really...the personnel department needs addressed. Our drafts aren't producing.

Whether Gruden, Zimmer, etc were great at scouting. Or Jon Gruden and Parcells were helping them. Our drafts haven't been producing.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-15-2016, 11:42 AM)samhain Wrote: I think an internal hire like Guenther would be worse.  Zero culture change and zero threat to entrenched players that aren't playing to their potential.  I'd almost rather just keep marvin and hire some better position coaches or coordinators.  Marvin does just fine when he has top-notch help on staff.  Haslett, Burney, and Coyle should get shitcanned as soon as the lockers are cleaned out.  They have taken a perennial top 10 defense and turned it into a laughingstock.  I really don't care if they take Guenther with them, either.

You're probably right, I would use him as an interim, and see what he could do just to get Marv out of here.  Having said that, you gotta remember during the bye, he was calling out veterans and talking of benching them.....only to have his dumbass HC overrule that.  In public.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-15-2016, 11:48 AM)Wyche Wrote: You're probably right, I would use him as an interim, and see what he could do just to get Marv out of here.  Having said that, you gotta remember during the bye, he was calling out veterans and talking of benching them.....only to have his dumbass HC overrule that.  In public.

We need a coach with fire like Zimmer or a younger Coughlin.

IF our roster was still elite, I'd consider bringing Coughlin in for 2-3 years with his replacement an assistant coach here.

[JumboTron]

Mike Brown is not even going to entertain the idea of firing Marvin. Why? Lewis still has a year left on his contract and if there is one human being on the face of this Earth that will not pay millions for someone not to work it's Mikey. Lewis will be here next season if he so chooses.

[samhain]

(11-15-2016, 11:48 AM)Wyche Wrote: You're probably right, I would use him as an interim, and see what he could do just to get Marv out of here.  Having said that, you gotta remember during the bye, he was calling out veterans and talking of benching them.....only to have his dumbass HC overrule that.  In public.

Oh, don't misinterpret me.  Unless this team wins 7 straight and young guys suddenly turn into studs between now and NYE, I want wholesale change on the staff.  I have no attachment to them.  They've had their shot.  I just lower expectations with this FO.  They may throw us a bone, but we aren't getting the whole porterhouse in one offseason.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-15-2016, 11:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What's the point? We're not making the playoffs.

They'd move a guy like Guenther into the HC spot where he'd be setup to fail. Then probably Coyle to DC where he wasn't good in Miami. Then you'd need a new DB coach.

It would create upheaval.

The only advantage that I can see is that a new HC might play younger players more...but even that is speculative as coaches generally play veterans to try to win...especially in a tryout role.

I could get behind some "upheaval" right now. We're not winning with or without Marv, so why not try something else?

(11-15-2016, 11:18 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: They will not fire Marvin mid-season. That's not going to happen. And honestly I'm not seeing a competent HC on our sidelines. Those guys have gone on to greener pastures. We need a new face & attitude in a bad way.

They won't fire Marv after the season either, so I guess there's no sense in talking about about this, period.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-15-2016, 11:51 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We need a coach with fire like Zimmer or a younger Coughlin.

IF our roster was still elite, I'd consider bringing Coughlin in for 2-3 years with his replacement an assistant coach here.

Absolutely.  I want to be clear here too.....I appreciate all Marv has done here, and what he does as a human being for the community is second to none.  I like the guy.  I really wanted to see him hoist the hardware.  Unfortunately, his time is done here, and I think it was after 2010, and definitely after the SD playoff debacle.

[JumboTron]

(11-15-2016, 11:58 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They won't fire Marv after the season either, so I guess there's no sense in talking about about this, period.

Yep.  It's like fantasizing about being a millionaire and living on your own tropical island surrounded my stacked Playmates.  It's kind of fun to think about but if you take it seriously you will just get more and more frustrated that it will never come close to happening.