A different perspective on Dalton

[Marlon23]

(12-06-2016, 08:22 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: That's it???  That's all you got????

[bengalguy71]

(12-06-2016, 09:21 PM)Marlon23 Wrote:

Let's see, they've had 4 HCs and 7 QBs that made the playoffs; HCs - Paul Brown, Forest Gregg, Sam Wyche, and Marvin Lewis.  QBs - Virgil Carter, Sam Wyche, Kenny Anderson, Boomer Esaison, Carson Palmer, and Andy Dalton, and A. J. McCarron.

Four QBs and 3 HCs under the ownership of Paul Brown, 12 playoff games, 5 wins, 7 losses, including 2 SB losers.

Two QBs and 1 HC under the ownership of Mike Brown, 7 playoff games, 0 wins, 7 losses.

Seems to me the only common denominator has been the father and son ownership!

[Atomic Orange]

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-06-2016, 07:13 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: See here's the thing I find amazing.  This statement would apply to ANY QB in the league, and I'm going to even throw Brady in there after what I've seen from the Pat organization when Brady ISN'T playing.

There is a mega thread for the anti-Dalton folk, but it's only been 5 years for him.  I think the Bengals would have had the first seed last year had he not broke his thumb.

You also can't pin the playoff game the year before that, against the Colts, when there were injuries out the wazoo on offense.

Besides that, last year's playoff game had nothing to do with the QB as A.J. McCarron wasn't even on the field during the implosion!!

The Bengals Lombardi woes start and end with Mike Brown.

Not every rookie QB gets to step into a 'dream team' scenario like Russell Wilson and Zak Prescott did, with a kick butt team already in place.

Finally, I said it many times before, and I'll say it again, winning playoff games might get players a little extra cash, but outside of that, they mean absolutely nothing, UNLESS you win the last playoff game in that particular season.

Just ask Kenny Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Dan Marino, Andrew Luck, Cam Newton, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, and Carson Palmer to name a few.

Yes he was. The implosion started with Hill's fumble.

[*Go Cards*]

(12-06-2016, 02:02 PM)bengals67 Wrote: same question about why Bodine has not been replaced after 3 years of being a below average center.

Absolutely correct and hopefully that is rectified after this year.

[*Go Cards*]

(12-06-2016, 02:48 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: you expect 1st rounders to play well... they keep hoping  he kept failing...

OB better start playing as expected or he will be inside @ guard or out of the league before too long.    (right now hes not even playing as well as you expect a recently activated practice squader to play)

Get that but after a certain amount of time they have to be removed before their confidence is shattered and try to get them up to speed first before reinserting in starting line-up.  

They passed that juncture long ago and it may be detrimental to both him and the team now. 

Think it is PA that does not want to give up on his guys drafted and stubbornly sticks with them too long when he misses. 

[J24]

Andy has always been  capable of winning a Superbowl the problem has been especially in big games is that the team puts to much on Andy and thus he struggles. With a  very good defense, a solid offensive line, solid running game, and a great WR core he can win a title.

[Jpoore]

(12-07-2016, 01:32 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Absolutely correct and hopefully that is rectified after this year.

If we get a middle round pick hoping not but if it happens I would love a great run blocking center who is very solid in pass protection ala pocic, elflien etc. I personally prefer elflien bc he has Been all big ten player at guard and center 

[bengalguy71]

(12-07-2016, 12:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yes he was. The implosion started with Hill's fumble.

My bad, I forgot about the 'bad handoff.

[Marlon23]

(12-06-2016, 10:04 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Let's see, they've had 4 HCs and 7 QBs that made the playoffs; HCs - Paul Brown, Forest Gregg, Sam Wyche, and Marvin Lewis.  QBs - Virgil Carter, Sam Wyche, Kenny Anderson, Boomer Esaison, Carson Palmer, and Andy Dalton, and A. J. McCarron.

Four QBs and 3 HCs under the ownership of Paul Brown, 12 playoff games, 5 wins, 7 losses, including 2 SB losers.

Two QBs and 1 HC under the ownership of Mike Brown, 7 playoff games, 0 wins, 7 losses.

Seems to me the only common denominator has been the father and son ownership!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2016, 11:05 AM)Marlon23 Wrote:

Not really a dead horse.....we're still suffering the lingering effects of a Son of Paul ran franchise.  No accountability from the top (see Piano Man here for nearly a quarter century), nepotism, small scouting department, coaches having to scout (which is why I think we are so shitty on the big stage, we are "outscouted"....ever notice it seems like the opponents are in our huddle), I mean, I could go on.....

[Marlon23]

(12-07-2016, 11:14 AM)Wyche Wrote: Not really a dead horse.....we're still suffering the lingering effects of a Son of Paul ran franchise.  No accountability from the top (see Piano Man here for nearly a quarter century), nepotism, small scouting department, coaches having to scout (which is why I think we are so shitty on the big stage, we are "outscouted"....ever notice it seems like the opponents are in our huddle), I mean, I could go on.....

Please do!  Go On.

[bengalguy71]

(12-07-2016, 11:14 AM)Wyche Wrote: Not really a dead horse.....we're still suffering the lingering effects of a Son of Paul ran franchise.  No accountability from the top (see Piano Man here for nearly a quarter century), nepotism, small scouting department, coaches having to scout (which is why I think we are so shitty on the big stage, we are "outscouted"....ever notice it seems like the opponents are in our huddle), I mean, I could go on.....

Nail on the head again Wyche! So many like Marlon who you would think the Bengals franchise is like that Pats. Winning division, playoff games, and intermittent Super Bowls year after year and all of the sudden Dalton shows up and they hit a playoff drought!

I think mods should start moving any and every Dalton thread, good or bad, to mega thread and let them fight amongst themselves!

[Marlon23]

(12-07-2016, 11:48 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Nail on the head again Wyche! So many like Marlon who you would think the Bengals franchise is like that Pats. Winning division, playoff games, and intermittent Super Bowls year after year and all of the sudden Dalton shows up and they hit a playoff drought!

I think mods should start moving any and every Dalton thread, good or bad, to mega thread and let them fight amongst themselves!

Don't Mention or Attack me in your posting.  I am REPORTING THIS!  you have been REPORTED!!!

[grampahol]

Football has evolved into everyone's personal little argudom where anyone gets to argue about things that never get done. My! How refreshing!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2016, 11:42 AM)Marlon23 Wrote: Please do!  Go On.

For starters, let me ask you a few questions.  If you owned a NFL team, and your HC was 0-7 in the playoffs after 14 years on the job and essentially 2 different rosters in that time frame, would you retain him?  Beyond that, if you were the GM, and you hadn't won a playoff game since GW Bush was in office, would you look outside for help?  If numerous players had demanded trades over the years due to your incompetence, wouldn't you take a step back and re-evaluate your methods?  Speaking of that HC....why wasn't he allowed to pick his own staff when he got here?  If you had a guy that was a part of what was once the worst decade winning percentage in all of professional sports history (thanks Detroit Lions), would he still be on your staff some 15 years later?  Wouldn't you build a practice bubble to ensure good practices in November/December, unaffected by any weather throughout the year to give your guys the best shot at winning?

Son of Paul has a much bigger effect on things than most fans are willing to look into.  This is just the tip of the iceberg.....

[Marlon23]

(12-07-2016, 12:27 PM)Wyche Wrote: For starters, let me ask you a few questions.  If you owned a NFL team, and your HC was 0-7 in the playoffs after 14 years on the job and essentially 2 different rosters in that time frame, would you retain him?  Beyond that, if you were the GM, and you hadn't won a playoff game since GW Bush was in office, would you look outside for help?  If numerous players had demanded trades over the years due to your incompetence, wouldn't you take a step back and re-evaluate your methods?  Speaking of that HC....why wasn't he allowed to pick his own staff when he got here?  If you had a guy that was a part of what was once the worst decade winning percentage in all of professional sports history (thanks Detroit Lions), would he still be on your staff some 15 years later?  Wouldn't you build a practice bubble to ensure good practices in November/December, unaffected by any weather throughout the year to give your guys the best shot at winning?

Son of Paul has a much bigger effect on things than most fans are willing to look into.  This is just the tip of the iceberg.....

Let me ask you did you even read what I stated, or you just so blindly throwing out stuff cause you didn't read what I actually posted and someone just comes along and starts babbling about Andy Dalton.  On this particular thread #17 post.  All I stated is what makes us think that he is going to get it done with the Ins and Outs of Coaching staff, OC in particular, the defense is becoming older, and himself becoming older in the next 2-3 years.  If anything I agree with your post, however I don't think Andy Dalton is going to lead us to SB.  As far as who I support as QB for the Bengals, Andy is in he is Our QB.  If Todd from the local Walmart comes in and tries to win us games, Todd from the Local Walmart is our QB, cause he is in the Uniform.  

[Shake n Blake]

(12-07-2016, 01:51 AM)J24 Wrote: Andy has always been  capable of winning a Superbowl the problem has been especially in big games is that the team puts to much on Andy and thus he struggles. With a  very good defense, a solid offensive line, solid running game, and a great WR core he can win a title.

Don't even think he needs a "great" receiving core. Just really good like any other QB would need. Again though...what QB wouldn't need a really good team to win a chip?

Even Brady needs very good defense, an all-world TE, underrated WRs, underrated running and solid blocking. Not to mention the GOAT coach. It's time for people (not you) to realize that Dalton doesn't suck just because he needs a good team and coaching to win a chip. They all do.

[Shake n Blake]

QBs are not like RBs and WRs. They don't immediately fall off at age 30. The good ones often play deep into their 30's and often til they're 39-40 years old. To pretend that Dalton (29) is destined for a decline in 2-3 years is ridiculous, frankly. No, Dalton isn't going to win a championship with this coaching and ownership. Nor would Tom Brady. Think about it. Does anyone really think Brady would come in here and win a championship with Marv, Piano Man, and this ownership?

[Marlon23]

(12-07-2016, 01:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Don't even think he needs a "great" receiving core. Just really good like any other QB would need. Again though...what QB wouldn't need a really good team to win a chip?

Even Brady needs very good defense, an all-world TE, underrated WRs, underrated running and solid blocking. Not to mention the GOAT coach. It's time for people (not you) to realize that Dalton doesn't suck just because he needs a good team and coaching to win a chip. They all do.

It is a Team oriented Game.  Right now, we are in decline.  Andy Dalton in the next 2-3 years has to get it done with what he has... or he it will not be done.