Can Andy and the Bengals finally win a playoff game?

[fredtoast]

(07-09-2015, 10:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm not saying that a defense should have to do this, I'm only saying that blaming the QB for the shoddy defensive performance is lame. There's plenty of legit stuff to bash Andy for, but you lose credibility when you start blaming the QB for everything but the weather. The defense has 5 total sacks and 2 forced turnovers in 6 playoff games. For a defense that's been so stout in all of those years, that's ridiculous. Period.

That is the big difference.  The people who admit that the defense played poorly can also admit that Andy played poorly.  But guys like Pdub blame Andy for the defense stinking it up.  And that is ridiculous.

[WhoDeyWho]

(07-09-2015, 08:15 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The Bengals D happened to outscore the offense in that game with a pick 6. The offense only scored two FGs.

Bengals under Marvin Lewis have amassed 2 turnovers in 6 playoff games.  

[djs7685]

(07-09-2015, 11:55 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Bengals under Marvin Lewis have amassed 2 turnovers in 6 playoff games.  

And 0 points on offense in the second half of every game.
And a lot of rushing yards given up.
And not many rushing yards on offense.
And a lot of other stuff that doesn't look very good for the team and coaching staff.

At least PDub is going into detail showing play-by-play to further prove his points. I'm not saying that I agree with the exact premise of Andy causing the defense to stink it up in some of the playoff games, you have to at least be willing to read his posts and realize a decent point is being made.

People that excuse Andy for everything but the weather ( love ya Shake) always run to blame the defense anytime that somebody mentions that Andy may need to play better in the playoffs. If you look at every single play of the San Diego game, Gio Bernard and Andy Dalton are your two biggest culprits here for that loss. The defense did NOT play as poorly as some want to say they did. They kept this team in the game over and over by limiting points off turnovers until they just couldn't hang anymore themselves. Could they have played better? Sure. Should they have stepped up and put the team on their back to carry the miserable offense? I'd have loved to see it, but I just can't bring myself to expect that from them.

I'll give the offense and defense equal blame in a couple of the playoff games, but the defense absolutely played well enough to win Houston #2 and against San Diego. Anyone that's willing to look at the detailed play-by-play objectively just really can't disagree with that. You don't have to force a ton of turnovers and sack the QB constantly to have a decent or better game. They did what they needed to, and the offense didn't step up. I'm not blaming Andy solely here, but I will absolutely blame the offense more than the defense for 2 of the 4 most recent playoff games. Marvin Lewis, Jay Gruden, Andy Dalton, Gio Bernard, BJGE, Marvin Jones, A.J. Green, Kyle Cook, Jermaine Gresham, Andrew Hawkins, Kevin Zeitler, Andre Smith, and anybody else on that side of the ball. The list goes on with whoever played significant snaps in 2012 - 2013.

[Luvnit2]

(07-10-2015, 08:36 AM)djs7685 Wrote: And 0 points on offense in the second half of every game.
And a lot of rushing yards given up.
And not many rushing yards on offense.
And a lot of other stuff that doesn't look very good for the team and coaching staff.

At least PDub is going into detail showing play-by-play to further prove his points. I'm not saying that I agree with the exact premise of Andy causing the defense to stink it up in some of the playoff games, you have to at least be willing to read his posts and realize a decent point is being made.

People that excuse Andy for everything but the weather ( love ya Shake) always run to blame the defense anytime that somebody mentions that Andy may need to play better in the playoffs. If you look at every single play of the San Diego game, Gio Bernard and Andy Dalton are your two biggest culprits here for that loss. The defense did NOT play as poorly as some want to say they did. They kept this team in the game over and over by limiting points off turnovers until they just couldn't hang anymore themselves. Could they have played better? Sure. Should they have stepped up and put the team on their back to carry the miserable offense? I'd have loved to see it, but I just can't bring myself to expect that from them.

I'll give the offense and defense equal blame in a couple of the playoff games, but the defense absolutely played well enough to win Houston #2 and against San Diego. Anyone that's willing to look at the detailed play-by-play objectively just really can't disagree with that. You don't have to force a ton of turnovers and sack the QB constantly to have a decent or better game. They did what they needed to, and the offense didn't step up. I'm not blaming Andy solely here, but I will absolutely blame the offense more than the defense for 2 of the 4 most recent playoff games. Marvin Lewis, Jay Gruden, Andy Dalton, Gio Bernard, BJGE, Marvin Jones, A.J. Green, Kyle Cook, Jermaine Gresham, Andrew Hawkins, Kevin Zeitler, Andre Smith, and anybody else on that side of the ball. The list goes on with whoever played significant snaps in 2012 - 2013.

I give you the defensive performance in the 2012 Texan playoff loss was good enough to win and close to on par of how the defense performed in the regular season.

In 2013, I disagree as the defense was killed in T.O.P. for 2 reasons, the offensive game plan changed to throw the ball 34 times which was a very bad game plan by Gruden. Second, our run defense was horrible (far worse than the 2013 regular season run defense) and it started early and often as Rivers early in the game would run 2 running plays for 7 or 8 yards and then be in short 3rd down situations.

Our defense's inability to stop the run and force Rivers to throw hurt our chances to win that game. This has nothing to do with the AD second half performance, yes he was bad also, AJ Green was too dropping a TD pass with 6 minutes to go and down 10.

I believe if we could have forced the Chargers and Rivers into more 3rd and long situations, the pass rush with our crowd noise would have been a factor. Our pass rush was a non factor the entire game as Rivers was able to dunk and dink due to the porous run defense.

So, in my opinion our defense has had one year out of 4 where they equaled their regular season defensive performance. That is my issue, no unit steps up in the playoffs and takes over a game consistently.

[*bengalfan74*]

I agree with a lot of what Pdub says ! Andy did stink it up in the San Dog game - BAD !

And the defense did hold on some short fields, no doubt.

Having said that if you look closely at every playoff game our defense has next to no - WOW plays ! They don't generate game changing plays, they don't get turnovers, they don't get sacks, they don't get pressure causing turnovers, they get gashed in the run game and the list goes on.

Dalton has stunk in the playoffs, there's no doubt.

But this team has melted down as a group as well ! Except for a drive here and a defensive hold there. It's a team thing. And has been even before Dalton.

[Luvnit2]

As I read posts about AD, I see 3 categories:

1. Those who are over the top and ignore his weaknesses. - Very small percent of no more than 5% IMHO in this forum
2. Those who are subjective and realize AD has strengths and weaknesses. - 85% in here
3. Those who have decided AD is a bad NFL QB and is holding the team back. They only see his weaknesses. - 10%

Most in here can talk about AD with some objectivity (strength and weakness).

All (100%) in here want the same thing, a playoff win and then a Lombardi trophy

[*Nately120*]

Look, this post is about Andy Dalton mostly (go figure) and I think we can all agree that if any QB puts up a statline like Andy has in 4 playoff games and he actually wins the game (as in our defense shows up, Gio doesn't fumble, etc.) we would agree the team won despite him (see Russell Wilson's one game in the playoffs people love to bring up).

SO win or lose, Andy wouldn't be getting credit for any of the 4 games thus far regardless of what the defense/running game/HC/OC does.

[djs7685]

(07-10-2015, 11:57 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I give you the defensive performance in the 2012 Texan playoff loss was good enough to win and close to on par of how the defense performed in the regular season.

In 2013, I disagree as the defense was killed in T.O.P. for 2 reasons, the offensive game plan changed to throw the ball 34 times which was a very bad game plan by Gruden. Second, our run defense was horrible (far worse than the 2013 regular season run defense) and it started early and often as Rivers early in the game would run 2 running plays for 7 or 8 yards and then be in short 3rd down situations.

Our defense's inability to stop the run and force Rivers to throw hurt our chances to win that game. This has nothing to do with the AD second half performance, yes he was bad also, AJ Green was too dropping a TD pass with 6 minutes to go and down 10.

I believe if we could have forced the Chargers and Rivers into more 3rd and long situations, the pass rush with our crowd noise would have been a factor. Our pass rush was a non factor the entire game as Rivers was able to dunk and dink due to the porous run defense.

So, in my opinion our defense has had one year out of 4 where they equaled their regular season defensive performance. That is my issue, no unit steps up in the playoffs and takes over a game consistently.

I completely agree that none of the units stepped it up and played extraordinarily well in any of the games, no one ever took over a game and looked like they were going to really win it for the other side of the ball. You would think with 4 tries, at least one side would have at least once or twice.

I don't know if I agree about the 2013 defense though, you can't expect a team to give up 0 yards, so IMO it's just nitpicking to bring up a handful of plays that the entire defense fall apart a little bit, especially seeing as they didn't give up a lot of points in those situations. They had one drive in the first half that even remotely fits the description you laid out of the inability to stop the run. 12 plays, 6:56, 86 yard TD drive in the first quarter. Those are the only points the Bengals' D gave up in the first half. Here are the other SD drives in the entire first half....

5 plays, 10 yards, punt
3 plays, 8 yards, punt
3 plays, 9 yards, punt
4 plays, 1 yard, punt

28 yards and 4 punts off of 4 drives is pretty good, right?

The offense opens the second half with the offense not being able to do anything after a BJGE 12 yard run. Run up the gut, Andy scramble for a couple of yards, then a sack.

The defense gets the ball back, they give up another bad drive, 80 yard TD that eats over 5 minutes.

The offense breaks down, Gio, Andy, and the rest of the crew just blow the game from here. Fumble, INT, INT, downs, downs, game over.

The defense at this point? They give up a total of 50 yards on 4 Chargers drives while the offense is trying as hard as possible to give the game away, this is until the long run at the very end of the game in garbage time when it's already over on their last drive of the game.

Please look all of that over, and maybe you'll start to remember the game a bit better since it's been a while. Other than 2 bad drives, the defense was doing everything it could to stay in this game. I'm NOT blaming Andy solely for this, don't think that I am, I'm putting this loss primarily on the offense though. Gio, Andy, A.J., Gruden, Marvin, and anybody else involved. This isn't an Andy bashing post, this is an offense bashing post. The defense absolutely held up in this game a LOT better than some seem to remember.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-10-2015, 12:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Look, this post is about Andy Dalton mostly (go figure) and I think we can all agree that if any QB puts up a statline like Andy has in 4 playoff games and he actually wins the game (as in our defense shows up, Gio doesn't fumble, etc.) we would agree the team won despite him (see Russell Wilson's one game in the playoffs people love to bring up).

SO win or lose, Andy wouldn't be getting credit for any of the 4 games thus far regardless of what the defense/running game/HC/OC does.

Of course they'd be winning despite Dalton's performance. He's been terrible.

I'm just capable of admitting that the rest of the team isn't looking so hot either.

[GodFather]

Theres only one thing and one thing only that will solve this debate no matter what side your on. Take it away Adrian:

[*Nately120*]

(07-10-2015, 12:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Of course they'd be winning despite Dalton's performance. He's been terrible.

I'm just capable of admitting that the rest of the team isn't looking so hot either.

True, and I may know nothing about football, but isn't it more likely for a bad offensive performance to torpedo the defense than vice versa?  The defense looks worse when they are given short fields. You can't run the ball as much when you are behind so if you keep stuffing it up on offense you aren't killing the clock. Etc.

Fantasy football alone should tell you how much QB numbers can benefit if your defense just gives up the score immediately and the QB gets to go back on the field and throw like it's an old AFL game. Look at the Bengals in the mid 00s. Palmer scores, defense stinks, Palmer scores, etc. The guy threw 6 TDs and lost to the Browns once, for Pete's sake.

I'm sure I come off as a big ol' hater, but when people complain about our defense not generating turnovers in the post-season my response is "what makes you think more opportunities for Dalton would lead to more TDs and not more turnovers?"

[Luvnit2]

(07-10-2015, 12:14 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I completely agree that none of the units stepped it up and played extraordinarily well in any of the games, no one ever took over a game and looked like they were going to really win it for the other side of the ball. You would think with 4 tries, at least one side would have at least once or twice.

I don't know if I agree about the 2013 defense though, you can't expect a team to give up 0 yards, so IMO it's just nitpicking to bring up a handful of plays that the entire defense fall apart a little bit, especially seeing as they didn't give up a lot of points in those situations. They had one drive in the first half that even remotely fits the description you laid out of the inability to stop the run. 12 plays, 6:56, 86 yard TD drive in the first quarter. Those are the only points the Bengals' D gave up in the first half. Here are the other SD drives in the entire first half....

5 plays, 10 yards, punt
3 plays, 8 yards, punt
3 plays, 9 yards, punt
4 plays, 1 yard, punt

28 yards and 4 punts off of 4 drives is pretty good, right?

The offense opens the second half with the offense not being able to do anything after a BJGE 12 yard run. Run up the gut, Andy scramble for a couple of yards, then a sack.

The defense gets the ball back, they give up another bad drive, 80 yard TD that eats over 5 minutes.

The offense breaks down, Gio, Andy, and the rest of the crew just blow the game from here. Fumble, INT, INT, downs, downs, game over.

The defense at this point? They give up a total of 50 yards on 4 Chargers drives while the offense is trying as hard as possible to give the game away, this is until the long run at the very end of the game in garbage time when it's already over on their last drive of the game.

Please look all of that over, and maybe you'll start to remember the game a bit better since it's been a while. Other than 2 bad drives, the defense was doing everything it could to stay in this game. I'm NOT blaming Andy solely for this, don't think that I am, I'm putting this loss primarily on the offense though. Gio, Andy, A.J., Gruden, Marvin, and anybody else involved. This isn't an Andy bashing post, this is an offense bashing post. The defense absolutely held up in this game a LOT better than some seem to remember.

 I thought the defense played very well in the first half, no doubt, but they still were getting pushed around in the run game.

Of course AD and the offense played well in the first half of the 2013 game as well until the Gio fumble.

The Chargers had a game plan to run the ball, in spite of first down success early they stuck with it. I remember this game vividly as I was there with 11 of my friends. We were discussing our concern for the 3, 4 and 5 yard runs in the first half. There was a reason the Chargers did not have a lot of yards overall, they chose to go 3 to 4 yards and a cloud of dust versus a vertical passing attack.

The defense made no defensive adjustments, the  offense sputtered and T.O.P. escalated. Yes, the offense bears some of the issue with their inability to get first downs and not turn the ball over. Yes, the defense shares blame due to poor 3rd down defense (stopping them and making them punt).

I never said the defense did nothing. I did day they also did not play as well as normal (regular season) and nowhere close to dominant or better than the norm as they made zero big plays to turn the tide.

[fredtoast]

(07-10-2015, 12:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Look, this post is about Andy Dalton mostly (go figure) and I think we can all agree that if any QB puts up a statline like Andy has in 4 playoff games and he actually wins the game (as in our defense shows up, Gio doesn't fumble, etc.) we would agree the team won despite him (see Russell Wilson's one game in the playoffs people love to bring up).

SO win or lose, Andy wouldn't be getting credit for any of the 4 games thus far regardless of what the defense/running game/HC/OC does.

I dont know about that.

Boomer's postseason numbers in '88 were much worse than Dalton's, yet many people claim one of the reasons Boomer is better is his ability to win playoff games.

I never hear anyone claiming that Boomer sucked and we won in spite of him.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-10-2015, 01:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: True, and I may know nothing about football, but isn't it more likely for a bad offensive performance to torpedo the defense than vice versa?  The defense looks worse when they are given short fields.  You can't run the ball as much when you are behind so if you keep stuffing it up on offense you aren't killing the clock.  Etc.

Fantasy football alone should tell you how much QB numbers can benefit if your defense just gives up the score immediately and the QB gets to go back on the field and throw like it's an old AFL game.  Look at the Bengals in the mid 00s.  Palmer scores, defense stinks, Palmer scores, etc.  The guy threw 6 TDs and lost to the Browns once, for Pete's sake.

I'm sure I come off as a big ol' hater, but when people complain about our defense not generating turnovers in the post-season my response is "what makes you think more opportunities for Dalton would lead to more TDs and not more turnovers?"

The offense and defense feed off of each other equally in my non-expert opinion. If a defense can't stop the run and lets the opposing team chew up clock (consider the amount of rush yardage our D has allowed in all 6 games), then that keeps the ball away from our offense and puts more pressure on them to score when they do get the ball. When they don't force turnovers, it doesn't provide any bonus opportunities to our offense.

The way Dalton has played, I doubt he would've done much with it, but who knows? The point is that it hasn't happened. An elite defense shouldn't fall apart just because the QB isn't playing well. Tbh, Dalton wasn't even all that bad last year. The defense still allowed a season high in pass yardage and let a 3rd string RB burn them for around 140+ yards from scrimmage.

As I've pointed out, Peyton played like crap on his SB run. The Ravens D carried Joe Flacco when he was young and playing awful. Heck, Boomer played like crap in the '88 playoffs. Did it torpedo the team? If you want to say Dalton was the worst player over the last 4 games, I'd agree. I just think it's silly to act like the defense bears no blame for their own performance. They're the one's that allowed 150+ rush yards in all 6 games. They've allowed QB's like Sanchez, Yates and Schaub to look fantastic. They're the ones who have only forced 2 turnovers in 6 games.

It's easy to blame Dalton for the last 4 games, and he's easily been the worst player. Does that mean the defense should get a pass? Imo, no. You'd think an elite defense still would've shown up big in at least one of these games. They haven't. They're consistently bad in the same categories. No matter how many turnovers the QB has. The same themes occurred in the '05 and '09 playoff games as well. Obviously Dalton wasn't the QB then, so...

[BengalChris]

(07-10-2015, 07:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I dont know about that.

Boomer's postseason numbers in '88 were much worse than Dalton's, yet many people claim one of the reasons Boomer is better is his ability to win playoff games.

I never hear anyone claiming that Boomer sucked and we won in spite of him.

Boomer was 3-2 in the playoffs, 3 passing TDs and 3 INTs. We tended to run a lot in those games and scored more rushing TDs than passing TDs. With Woods and Wilson near the goal line, why would you throw?

It's really hard to compare QBs from different eras because of all the rules changes.

Kenny Anderson lead the league in passing yards in 1974 with only 2,667 yards and in 1975 with 3,169.

In 1988, Easiason's All-Pro year, he threw for 3,572 yards.

Today 5,000 yards happens almost every year.

But we have Marvin Lewis as coach and he's no Sam Wyche. The current team just deflates when something goes wrong. It's not just Dalton who deflates, but the whole team, defense, offense and coaching staff.

[PDub80]

(07-09-2015, 11:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is the big difference.  The people who admit that the defense played poorly can also admit that Andy played poorly.  But guys like Pdub blame Andy for the defense stinking it up.  And that is ridiculous.

Fred,

I laid out the first 3 playoff games and showed quarter by quarter, event by event, how the offense and, more specifically Andy Dalton, collapsed and blew those games. No one has refuted or offered any rebuttal to it. Since there is no factual or sensible rebuttal, people instead just continue to spew up the same nonsensical excuses for their favorite son.

Why do you still want create imaginary equal blame and point to anything other than the QB? Sure, none of them have been 100% perfect but, even if they were, the QB position in those games has given them no realistic chance. This isn't Shane Graham missing a field goal at the end of a season. Or the D giving up a long OT TD to lose.

These people are professional athletes. They're not your children. They're not your friends. They are there to do a job and that job is easily gradable and critiqued because literally every play is documented. To remove responsibility from the guy who has absolutely, positively F'd the entire team over with the worst post season play of ANY QB over the last 4 seasons is asinine. Read the play by play break downs quarter by quarter and the one constant is AD filling his diaper.

If you disagree, give me other data to show it. I worked to find and lay out data to show my point. It was easy because I'm right. Canned, generic ramblings about equal blah blah blah is just fanboy homerism and excuse making.

[PDub80]

(07-09-2015, 10:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It's sad that the best defensive performances you can come up with are these 2 gems, when the D gave up an average of 178 rushing yards and allowed the opposing QB's to complete an absurd 75.9% of their throws with a 93.9 passer rating. I guess that's why you have to excuse these 2 games by blaming the QB.

Andy could've played better. The defense also could've played better. Why blame the crap performance of one on the other? It'd be like me blaming Andy's performance on the fact that the defense couldn't get off the field or force any turnovers (I'm not). You act as if the offense can hurt/help the defense but the same isn't true for the defense hurting or helping the offense. 

The fact is that the entire team played like crap and neither the offense nor the defense did each other any favors in any of these games. The rare exception being Leon's pick-six in the 2nd Texans game (one of two turnovers from all six games combined). I can provide numerous examples of QB's turning the ball over multiple times and the defense still playing an excellent game. Russell Wilson's 4 int's in the NFC title game come to mind. The Ravens defense carried Flacco to some playoff wins early in his career. Peyton played like crap during his entire SB run in Indy. Boomer played like crap all the way to the SB.

I'm not saying that a defense should have to do this, I'm only saying that blaming the QB for the shoddy defensive performance is lame. There's plenty of legit stuff to bash Andy for, but you lose credibility when you start blaming the QB for everything but the weather. The defense has 5 total sacks and 2 forced turnovers in 6 playoff games. For a defense that's been so stout in all of those years, that's ridiculous. Period.

Shake,

Lets stop theorizing and lets cover what actually happened in the SD game....

Defensively

1st half, D gives up 7 points.

2nd half, D gives up 7 points UNTIL.... back to back to back turnovers midway through the 3rd quarter by Andy Dalton. Two of which are on extremely short fields - the other on the 50. The D still only gives up two field goals from that. The offense.... rudderless and dead in the water.
The chargers long rushing TD came in garbage time when the game was over and had no baring on the outcome whatsoever.

And you want to dish out any sort of blame on the D for that game? You want to say that what the offense did, more specifically Andy Dalton, did not influence the defense? Come on, dude.

I already broke down the two Texans games in detail. Want me to do it again? It's virtually the same story, man: D gives up 7 or 10 points in the first half, AD goes on a pants crapping streak.... Bengals lose.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-11-2015, 09:37 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Shake,

Lets stop theorizing and lets cover what actually happened in the SD game....

Defensively

1st half, D gives up 7 points.

2nd half, D gives up 7 points UNTIL.... back to back to back turnovers midway through the 3rd quarter by Andy Dalton. Two of which are on extremely short fields - the other on the 50. The D still only gives up two field goals from that. The offense.... rudderless and dead in the water.
The chargers long rushing TD came in garbage time when the game was over and had no baring on the outcome whatsoever.

And you want to dish out any sort of blame on the D for that game? You want to say that what the offense did, more specifically Andy Dalton, did not influence the defense? Come on, dude.

I already broke down the two Texans games in detail. Want me to do it again? It's virtually the same story, man: D gives up 7 or 10 points in the first half, AD goes on a pants crapping streak.... Bengals lose.

PDub,

I don't think there's any (very few anyways) Bengal Fans out there who will try and argue that our defense was a greater cause of our losing than the offense. Clearly we've scored very little and in every game our 2nd half offense has been virtually nonexistent !

Andy Dalton has to many turnovers, we've had to many dropped passes, fumbles, penalties, etc. by the offense at all the wrong times. The offense has been carrying the flag for our losing no doubt.

But in the same breath our defense is just as guilty of not rising to the occasion and kicking some ass - when it counts ! As the offense is of just generally stinking.

We've let 3 very marginal NFL QB's execute their teams game plans with zero pressure from the pass rush. When your defense can't disrupt the other teams gameplan at all, generally you lose that game.

We've been gashed in the run game every time, not once, not twice, every time ! What is it 160 yards per ? We have generated next to no turnovers ! All this from some pretty good D's.

I don't think anyone even Shake is trying to say Dalton doesn't have the biggest slice of losing pie. Just that the Defense has a pretty big slice themselves for failure to bring it when it's needed the most.

There's a team collapse going on here and it's very much a coaching/attitude problem. When the going gets tough, way down in the core, the heart our team doesn't really believe.

[fredtoast]

(07-11-2015, 09:24 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Fred,

I laid out the first 3 playoff games and showed quarter by quarter, event by event, how the offense and, more specifically Andy Dalton, collapsed and blew those games. No one has refuted or offered any rebuttal to it. Since there is no factual or sensible rebuttal, people instead just continue to spew up the same nonsensical excuses for their favorite son.

I absolutely showed how well Dalton played in the third quarter of the first Houston game, but we still fell farther behind  (from down 7 to down 14)  because the defense, running game, and pass protection faltered.  Then I pointed out that this was the reason we were forced to go for it on 4th and three early in the fourth quarter leading to another turnover.

All you have done is list Andy's errors and ignore poor play by the defense and running game, and pass protection.

Then you ignore anything I have written and keep squealing "Dalton, Dalton, Dalton".

[WhoDeyWho]

(07-11-2015, 12:23 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The offense and defense feed off of each other equally in my non-expert opinion. If a defense can't stop the run and lets the opposing team chew up clock (consider the amount of rush yardage our D has allowed in all 6 games), then that keeps the ball away from our offense and puts more pressure on them to score when they do get the ball. When they don't force turnovers, it doesn't provide any bonus opportunities to our offense.

The way Dalton has played, I doubt he would've done much with it, but who knows? The point is that it hasn't happened. An elite defense shouldn't fall apart just because the QB isn't playing well. Tbh, Dalton wasn't even all that bad last year. The defense still allowed a season high in pass yardage and let a 3rd string RB burn them for around 140+ yards from scrimmage.

As I've pointed out, Peyton played like crap on his SB run. The Ravens D carried Joe Flacco when he was young and playing awful. Heck, Boomer played like crap in the '88 playoffs. Did it torpedo the team? If you want to say Dalton was the worst player over the last 4 games, I'd agree. I just think it's silly to act like the defense bears no blame for their own performance. They're the one's that allowed 150+ rush yards in all 6 games. They've allowed QB's like Sanchez, Yates and Schaub to look fantastic. They're the ones who have only forced 2 turnovers in 6 games.

It's easy to blame Dalton for the last 4 games, and he's easily been the worst player. Does that mean the defense should get a pass? Imo, no. You'd think an elite defense still would've shown up big in at least one of these games. They haven't. They're consistently bad in the same categories. No matter how many turnovers the QB has. The same themes occurred in the '05 and '09 playoff games as well. Obviously Dalton wasn't the QB then, so...

This is how I feel about it.  If the defense has carried Dalton the last 4 years, why can't they do it in the playoffs as well?  A timely turnover or 2 can completely turn a football game.  2 in 6 games tells me that the defense also under performs when the playoffs comes around as well.