Can Andy and the Bengals finally win a playoff game?

[wolfkaosaun]

(07-08-2015, 08:07 PM)bearstronaut Wrote: The Bengals haven't won a playoff game since 1990.   Mike Brown took over from his dad in 91....  Marvin hasn't been the constant.  Mike Brown has been the constant.

Marvin Lewis is also a constant.

Sure, he deserves credit for getting us at least to the playoffs, but he has shown he can't get his teams over the hump. Lewis is also a constant.

[BengalChris]

(07-08-2015, 03:50 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Over the last couple of weeks, Coley and the AFC North guys at ESPN have chimed in on whether Andy Dalton and the Bengals can finally get that elusive playoff win...




Can Andy Dalton take the next step and win a playoff game?
Andy Dalton has made the playoffs each of his first four seasons, but as Cincinnati Bengals fans are all too aware, he's 0-for-4 in those opportunities. Is there reason to believe this year will be different if the Bengals make the playoffs again?

Can they get a playoff win? Yes and I don't believe there's much doubt about that.

Will they? Nobody knows and a year is a long time between playoffs to have to wait to find out.

[BengalChris]

(07-08-2015, 05:03 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Fwiw, I personnaly think they can win a playoff game this year. I think they will get there for a 5th straight year, but to finally get that win, 3 things have to happen...

They have to remain relatively healthy (comparative to other teams).
They have to stop turning into the Bad News Bears in the second half.
And for the love of Lindy Infante, they need to be able to make real, viable adjustments if the original game plan stops working.

I don't believe the first one should be much of an issue. It was only an issue last year, not the 3 years before. Just kinda want to point that out.

The next two require a change in how the team operates and in its attitude. This coaching staff has been horrible at in-game adjustments, during the regular season and in the postseason. They just don't seem to have anything to go to for some reason and that's just something that real football fans get mystified about.

Going to be rough on them since it's bound to get media attention this year. Dalton quite possibly could become the first NFL QB to ever go 0-5 in the playoffs and I'm pretty sure that's going to be something the media will mention more and more as the season comes to a close, that is if the Bengals are in playoff contention, which I believe they will be.

I believe they can do it, but they need to actual do it.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

They better finally win or heads need to roll. I don't care what others think or say, I say the Bengals need to get to the AFC Championship or else there will be some major changes. Just getting to the playoffs isn't good anymore, I want Super Bowl wins...plural...WINS now.

But that's just me.

[Butchie Tiger]

Run Hill and Gio down the other teams throat which will open up the passing game , this way we don't have to rely on Andy to win the game.

[*bengalfan74*]

I agree with those that say they hope so, but just aren't so sure.

What this team lacks isn't on the paper it's in the soul, in the spirit. We've got to develop confidence ! The players have to trust and believe in the coaches. That confidence just isn't there when you get right down to it. Whenever the going gets tough we fold ! Until that confidence is there, I just don't think it's possible.

Marvin Lewis is still here and I'll have to see it change before I'll believe it.

[Luvnit2]

(07-08-2015, 08:07 PM)bearstronaut Wrote: The Bengals haven't won a playoff game since 1990.   Mike Brown took over from his dad in 91....  Marvin hasn't been the constant.  Mike Brown has been the constant.

I find it interesting fans and the media rag on our QB for not winning a playoff game last year, but ignore our defense was very bad (compared to the league at 22nd or 23rd ranked and a huge disappointment from prior years) in 2014 regular season.

Most would give any QB who had a bad defense and decimated by injury at the TE and WR position a ton of credit for getting back to the playoffs.

Not our fans, they ignore it all because we lost a playoff game we were not close to be talented enough to compete against on the road due to injury.

To answer the questions, can we win a playoff game, only a fan ignoring our off season would say no way as more than likely they will be talented enough to get to a playoff game which is step 1 to winning a playoff game.

I say yes we can and I think we will in 2015.

[djs7685]

(07-08-2015, 10:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I find it interesting fans and the media rag on our QB for not winning a playoff game last year, but ignore our defense was very bad (compared to the league at 22nd or 23rd ranked and a huge disappointment from prior years) im 2014 regular season.

Most would give any QB who had a bad defense and decimated by injury at the TE and WR position a ton of credit for getting back to the playoffs.

Not our fans, they ignore it all because we lost a playoff game we were not close to be talented enough to compete against on the road due to injury.

To answer the questions, can we win a playoff game, only a fan ignoring our off season would say no way as more than likely they will be talented enough to get to a playoff game which is step 1 to winning a playoff game.

I say yes we can and I think we will in 2015.

I find it interesting that I see an extremely similar post year after year after year from the same people. The team loses yet another playoff game and we have these same people that are somehow baffled that everybody isn't a believer in a team that hasn't sniffed a playoff victory in a quarter of a century.

If you want to talk about interesting things, maybe think about that for a minute.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-08-2015, 03:50 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Over the last couple of weeks, Coley and the AFC North guys at ESPN have chimed in on whether Andy Dalton and the Bengals can finally get that elusive playoff win...




Can Andy Dalton take the next step and win a playoff game?
Andy Dalton has made the playoffs each of his first four seasons, but as Cincinnati Bengals fans are all too aware, he's 0-for-4 in those opportunities. Is there reason to believe this year will be different if the Bengals make the playoffs again?

Read the responses http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/17530/afc-north-qa-is-there-reason-to-believe-andy-dalton-will-take-the-next-step-in-his-development-and-win-a-playoff-game





Why playoff-win drought for Bengals, Andy Dalton will continue
Ask any sports fan from the Queen City what he or she most wants out of their professional sports teams and you will get a simple answer: a playoff win.

It's been 20 years since the Cincinnati Reds won a playoff series, and 25 since the Cincinnati Bengals last claimed a postseason victory. Earlier this summer, the New York Times even declared the city's sports fans as the 12th-most tortured in the country, due to the dearth of recent postseason success.

Read the rest of the article http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/17877/bengals-andy-dalton-playoffs-win-drought-continues

I think the drought ends this year. Something about the #5. Seems like every time i bought a cassette tape, the 5th song was always the best (don't laugh, it used to happen all the time!!). Johnny Bench, Ken Anderson and Boomer both made the playoffs in their 5th year. Little different with Dalton, since he's already been there 4 times. I just think that if they're able to stay relatively healthy, with the talent and experience they have, they will get over the hump this year. 

Oh yeah. Add Dalton's uni numbers together and what do you get? 5

It's fate. 

[Shake n Blake]

I was listening to a podcast on cincinnati.com about the 2005 team, and something stood out to me. They were interviewing Chad about what went wrong in that game and he mentioned that they got way too conservative after Carson went down. Almost as if Marv was fearing mistakes.

I would guess that this isn't the only time Marv decided to play it conservative in the playoffs. Imo, you have to show confidence in the guys who got you into the playoffs in the first place.

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-08-2015, 10:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: 1.) I find it interesting fans and the media rag on our QB for not winning a playoff game last year, but ignore our defense was very bad (compared to the league at 22nd or 23rd ranked and a huge disappointment from prior years) im 2014 regular season.

2.) Most would give any QB who had a bad defense and decimated by injury at the TE and WR position a ton of credit for getting back to the playoffs.

Not our fans, they ignore it all because we lost a playoff game we were not close to be talented enough to compete against on the road due to injury.

To answer the questions, can we win a playoff game, only a fan ignoring our off season would say no way as more than likely they will be talented enough to get to a playoff game which is step 1 to winning a playoff game.

I say yes we can and I think we will in 2015.

1.) Our defensive rankings in 2011, 2012 and 2013 were: 7th, 6th, 3rd.

So maybe people aren't ignoring the fact that we had a bad defense but more realize that we've had more than adequate ones before and have had the same results.  We've also been relatively healthy in previous years, and we've hosted a playoff game.

2.) A ton of credit?  He finished 25th in QB rating.  He didn't even hit 20 TD's. 

To put that into perspective, he threw less TD's than a rookie in Derek Carr, who plays for the freaking Raiders.  You want to talk about weapons or lack thereof?  Oh, Dalton only had AJ Green for 12 games, and he had to use Sanu instead of Marvin Jones as a #2, he only had Jermaine Gresham at Tight End?  Carr's top 2 receivers were Andre Holmes and James Jones.  His Tight End was Mychal Rivera.  His 1/2 punch at RB was Darren McFadden and Latavius Murray.  Need we even get into the OL's?

Andy Dalton's QB rating was lower than that of such superstars as: Shaun Hill, Teddy Bridgewater (another rookie with terrible weapons), Austin Davis, Kyle Orton.  Jay Cutler, who was benched for playing so poorly, had a QB rating that was a full 5 pts higher than Andy's.  He 50% more TD's than Andy and he didn't even play the full year.

And you think he deserves a "ton of credit"?  Who are these "most" you speak of?  Most people would give that performance a ton of credit?  Are you serious?

Lastly, I find your throwing the defense under the bus very intriguing.  It is amazing to me the amount of things that factor into Dalton's performance (excuses).  Things like injuries, play calling, throwing too much, throwing too little, wind, flu, etc/.  Fine, I guess.  But such a simple statement that the defense played bad is commonly used, without much of the same explanation.  It's simple, they didn't play great.  Forget that they were missing Burfict, forget that Atkins wasn't 100%, forget that they had a new DC.  They played bad.  How refreshing to be able say and discuss a simple topic, without finding every single reason to deflect blame.  It's a shame such obvious statements can't be made about Andy, who by the way, had  a worse year than our defense statistcially. (22 vs 25)

Every year I think some of you will run out of excuses.  Every year I'm wrong.  The lengths people go to combat what seem to reasonable takes (Russell Wilson being very good, Andy playing poorly, etc) just seems incredibly desperate and defensive to me.  He needs to be better.  He's had good defenses, he's had weapons.  He needs to step it up.  Period.

[WhoDeyWho]

(07-08-2015, 07:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I have no problem pinning last year's loss on injuries.  However, there was no excuse for the home loss to San Diego the prior year.  That was the point where I started to realize that Dalton may not be the guy to get the job done in the playoffs.

You came to that conclusion because he lost a playoff game he should have won in his 3rd season in the league?  

[Brownshoe]

(07-08-2015, 07:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't recall ever trying to say that injuries don't matter.  Among my points were that I don't we have seen an above average amount of injuries, both in sheer volume and impact.

I don't think it's fair to say that this team has been hindered more than average amount by injury, both last season and over the course of the last 4.  I don't it's fair to use it as an excuse.  Good to great teams win all thae time with injured players.  That's what makes them good (or great).  And all teams see significant injuries at some point.  Unless you're seeing an unordinary amount of players getting hurt then it's excuse almost every team could share.

The 2013 New Patriots lost Wes Welker (FA), Rob Gronkowski (Injury) Aaron Hernandez (Murder 1) and the newly signed Welker replacement Danny Amendola (Injury).  Welker and Hernadez obviously for the whole year, Gronk for the majority and Amendola on and off for half.  Guess what they did?  They went 12-4 and made it t0 the AFC Championship.  This with the likes of Aaron Hobson and Kembrell Thompkins seeing significant time.  This with the duo of Gronk and Hernandez, the greatest TE due ever, being replaced by Michael Hoomanawanui and Matthew Mulligan.

You want to know how they did this?  Because they're a legitimate contender.  They're well coached.  They have a great QB.  They expect nothing but the very best.  Their expectations and demands are ridiculously high, regardless of circumstance.

Like or not, these are you peers.  To win in this league sometimes you got to sack up and win a game with a star player out.  Sometimes your QB is going to be down a weapon or two.  Happens to everyone.  And if you can't adapt then that's what makes you less than.  That's why you're not one of the big dogs, but a pretender. 

And IMHO if you allow the idea that excuses are acceptable into your organization I think you're already behind the eight ball.  I think some of that plagues this team.  It is clear they don't demand as much as their peers, and I think that hurts them.  I just hope none of the thinking on injuries being such a greater hindrance here is shared by the staff.  Which would be scary, because I doubt you'd hear the same excuses in places like NE and Pit.  And many teams have lost players a whole of lot better than Tyler Eiffert and Marvin Jones, and many star players have missed longer periods than AJ Green.

When the Bengals are a team of a lot of good players, and not a lot of great players; injuries hurt us more than it would other teams. In 2013 our offensive line had 2 starters, and our secondary had big injuries too. Sure, we still had a very good chance of winning that game, but it just didn't happen. 2014 do I even have to say how bad our injuries were? 2011, and 2012 our team was totally out matched. We were a huge underdog, and everyone was thinking that Houston had a good chance of going, and winning the SB.

If we stay healthy we have a great chance of winning a playoff game. People can just keep thinking we won't win just because we're the Bengals, but that's not a good enough reason for me.

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-08-2015, 11:11 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: You came to that conclusion because he lost a playoff game he should have won in his 3rd season in the league?  

Russell Wilson won playoff games each of his first 3 years.  In fact he won a Superbowl in year 2, and made another appearance in year 3.  Joe Flacco advanced in the playoffs in each and every one his first 5 seasons.  Colin Kapernick made in the NFC Championship after 13 starts.  He returned again in year 2. I think the Raped Crusader won a Superbowl in year 2. And those are just examples off the top of my head.

Saying your QB couldn't or shouldn't win because he's only in year 3 (after 50 starts) really tells you everything you need to know about him.  (He just not that good.)

[*bfine32*]

(07-08-2015, 05:31 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The answer is, more than likely, no. 
We heard how they'd surely win when they had a full offseason and Andy AJ had another year under their belt.  Didn't happen.

We heard that surely in year 3, with another year of seasoning for a duo that already had a fund set aside for them, and with a plethora of added weapons (Eifert, Bernard, the emergence of Marvin Jones), that we'd certainly be poised to take the next step and be a contender.  Even getting a game at home, against a team we already beat , against a West Coast team in an AFCN stadium, in January, a kickoff at 10am their time...it still didn't happen.  Not only did it not happen, we were embarrassed and outscored 20-0 in the second half, and suffered the biggest margin of defeat for the entire round (we were the worst team).

Then we heard that with Jay Gruden gone and genius that is Hue Jackson stepping in that we'd surely take that next step in year 4.  We even added another weapon to the offense.  This was to be the year.  Shocker >>>> DID.  NOT.  HAPPEN.

And these are just the "reboot" years.  It didn't happen in 2009 either, which was another home game.  

It didn't happen under Carson.  It didn't happen under Andy.  It didn't happen under Brat.  It didn't happen under Gruden.  It hasn't happened with Hue Jackson either.  It didn't happen under Frazier, Breshnahan, Zimmer, or Gunther.

In fact, it didn't happen in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 or 2014. (Just ratting off those years is exhausting.)

And if you want to take it bigger than the reboot years and the Marvin years, let's look at the Mike years.  It hasn't happened in 25 years.  That's a QUARTER of a CENTURY!!!  25 years, and this Mickey Mouse owner, with Mom and Pop's Nickle and Dime approach hasn't produced one stinking playoff win.  Do you know how poorly run of a team you have to be to accomplish this in this league.  It's statistically more likely to win 3 Superbowls over 25 years than it is not even luck your way into one playoff win.

So for me to come up with answer I just ask myself one question: Why should this year be any different than previous years? (The last 4, the last 12, and the last 25?)

I can't come up with one single answer to that question.  Nothing has changed.  Same owner, same general approach, same head coach, entire coaching staff returning, much of the coaching staff here going back a decade or more.  You've got the same QB, same core group of skill players, you've got the same schemes you've been running for years...  I could go on and on.

Look, I get fans convince themselves of things getting better for no other reason than that's just how it goes.  I'll admit I'm in the minority of fans.  But if I'm being totally honest and fair, looking at this team like any other, I can't see any logical reason to believe that the results should change.  Because the approach certainly hasn't.

(07-08-2015, 06:06 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: They weren't decimated by injuries in 2009, 2011, 2012, or 2013.  What happened?

Also, I would encourage people to look at some injury situations around the league and then compare them to ours and ask again what constitutes "being decimated".  Because losing a starting QB, that's going to hurt a lot worse than losing a backup tight end, coming off 300 yards receiving. 

We were really "decimated"?  Have we had more injuries than any other average team over the last few years? Losing your starting QB like Sam Bradford or Carson Palmer, that really hurts a team.   Losing Julio Jones for the season in week 5, like the Falcons did in 2013, is worse than losing AJ Green for 3-4 games.  The loss of Calvin Johnson last season was a bigger blow. 

Each and every year you can see the injury report littered with names much bigger than Eifert and Jones.  Names like Arian Foster, Jamaal Charles, Roddy White, Reggie Bush, etc.

Each and every year you see position much more valuable than Middle Linebacker go down.  Hell, look at the Cardinals last year.  They went through two QB's.  Is Vontaze Burfict a fantastic player?  Sure.  Is he a better MLB than Palmer is a QB?  Definitely.  But is MLB of greater or equal in value to a starting QB?  Not even close.  If you were to rank which team was hurt worse, team QB or team MLB, team QB is taking a much bigger hit.

So again how many injuries have we seen recently?  Going back 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, 4 years, what's the volume like?  Are we seeing  a higher than normal amount of total injuries?  And what about the value of the players lost?  If you were to try to assign a value to every players lost, would we have lost a greater caliber of player than our peers?  Are we having a higher rate of starting players hurt?  Are we having a higher rate of star players hurt?  What about the rate of IR's?

I think the answer you would find to most of these questions would support the fact that we haven't seen a greater deal of injuries these last 4 years than average.  No more than normal.  In fact, you may find that we've been somewhat lucky.  I also think you'd see that we haven't loss any greater caliber of player than the norm either.  Our starters, stars, key contributors, leaders, whatever you want to call them, aren't dropping at any higher of a rate than that of most everybody else.

I personally think the injury excuse is one of the most overstated excuses you see when it comes to rationalizing another early exit.  New England won a Superbowl with their #1 WR playing both ways and starting at CB.  The Giants won a Superbowl with Jeff Hostetler.  The Texans beat our very Bengals in the playoffs with a 3rd string rookie QB.  Acting like this team saw such bad luck recently isn't accurate IMO. 

I would love to believe we won't have a single injury or that staying relatively healthy, just like we did a number of other years, will result in fixing all our woes.  And if it doesn't play out that way then I'm sure I can expect to hear about some new and exciting excuse nest year.  The sun being in Marvin's eyes perhaps?  Black magic?  Iluminati conspiracy?

(07-08-2015, 07:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I don't recall ever trying to say that injuries don't matter.  Among my points were that I don't we have seen an above average amount of injuries, both in sheer volume and impact.

I don't think it's fair to say that this team has been hindered more than average amount by injury, both last season and over the course of the last 4.  I don't it's fair to use it as an excuse.  Good to great teams win all thae time with injured players.  That's what makes them good (or great).  And all teams see significant injuries at some point.  Unless you're seeing an unordinary amount of players getting hurt then it's excuse almost every team could share.

The 2013 New Patriots lost Wes Welker (FA), Rob Gronkowski (Injury) Aaron Hernandez (Murder 1) and the newly signed Welker replacement Danny Amendola (Injury).  Welker and Hernadez obviously for the whole year, Gronk for the majority and Amendola on and off for half.  Guess what they did?  They went 12-4 and made it t0 the AFC Championship.  This with the likes of Aaron Hobson and Kembrell Thompkins seeing significant time.  This with the duo of Gronk and Hernandez, the greatest TE due ever, being replaced by Michael Hoomanawanui and Matthew Mulligan.

You want to know how they did this?  Because they're a legitimate contender.  They're well coached.  They have a great QB.  They expect nothing but the very best.  Their expectations and demands are ridiculously high, regardless of circumstance.

Like or not, these are you peers.  To win in this league sometimes you got to sack up and win a game with a star player out.  Sometimes your QB is going to be down a weapon or two.  Happens to everyone.  And if you can't adapt then that's what makes you less than.  That's why you're not one of the big dogs, but a pretender. 

And IMHO if you allow the idea that excuses are acceptable into your organization I think you're already behind the eight ball.  I think some of that plagues this team.  It is clear they don't demand as much as their peers, and I think that hurts them.  I just hope none of the thinking on injuries being such a greater hindrance here is shared by the staff.  Which would be scary, because I doubt you'd hear the same excuses in places like NE and Pit.  And many teams have lost players a whole of lot better than Tyler Eiffert and Marvin Jones, and many star players have missed longer periods than AJ Green.

(07-08-2015, 11:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) Our defensive rankings in 2011, 2012 and 2013 were: 7th, 6th, 3rd.

So maybe people aren't ignoring the fact that we had a bad defense but more realize that we've had more than adequate ones before and have had the same results.  We've also been relatively healthy in previous years, and we've hosted a playoff game.

2.) A ton of credit?  He finished 25th in QB rating.  He didn't even hit 20 TD's. 

To put that into perspective, he threw less TD's than a rookie in Derek Carr, who plays for the freaking Raiders.  You want to talk about weapons or lack thereof?  Oh, Dalton only had AJ Green for 12 games, and he had to use Sanu instead of Marvin Jones as a #2, he only had Jermaine Gresham at Tight End?  Carr's top 2 receivers were Andre Holmes and James Jones.  His Tight End was Mychal Rivera.  His 1/2 punch at RB was Darren McFadden and Latavius Murray.  Need we even get into the OL's?

Andy Dalton's QB rating was lower than that of such superstars as: Shaun Hill, Teddy Bridgewater (another rookie with terrible weapons), Austin Davis, Kyle Orton.  Jay Cutler, who was benched for playing so poorly, had a QB rating that was a full 5 pts higher than Andy's.  He 50% more TD's than Andy and he didn't even play the full year.

And you think he deserves a "ton of credit"?  Who are these "most" you speak of?  Most people would give that performance a ton of credit?  Are you serious?

Lastly, I find your throwing the defense under the bus very intriguing.  It is amazing to me the amount of things that factor into Dalton's performance (excuses).  Things like injuries, play calling, throwing too much, throwing too little, wind, flu, etc/.  Fine, I guess.  But such a simple statement that the defense played bad is commonly used, without much of the same explanation.  It's simple, they didn't play great.  Forget that they were missing Burfict, forget that Atkins wasn't 100%, forget that they had a new DC.  They played bad.  How refreshing to be able say and discuss a simple topic, without finding every single reason to deflect blame.  It's a shame such obvious statements can't be made about Andy, who by the way, had  a worse year than our defense statistcially. (22 vs 25)

Every year I think some of you will run out of excuses.  Every year I'm wrong.  The lengths people go to combat what seem to reasonable takes (Russell Wilson being very good, Andy playing poorly, etc) just seems incredibly desperate and defensive to me.  He needs to be better.  He's had good defenses, he's had weapons.  He needs to step it up.  Period.

(07-08-2015, 11:28 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Russell Wilson won playoff games each of his first 3 years.  In fact he won a Superbowl in year 2, and made another appearance in year 3.  Joe Flacco advanced in the playoffs in each and every one his first 5 seasons.  Colin Kapernick made in the NFC Championship after 13 starts.  He returned again in year 2.  I think the Raped Crusader won a Superbowl in year 2.  And those are just examples off the top of my head.

Saying your QB couldn't or shouldn't win because he's only in year 3 (after 50 starts) really tells you everything you need to know about him.  (He just not that good.)

I think you've covered just about everything but the mascot.

[BengalChris]

(07-08-2015, 10:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I find it interesting fans and the media rag on our QB for not winning a playoff game last year, but ignore our defense was very bad (compared to the league at 22nd or 23rd ranked and a huge disappointment from prior years) im 2014 regular season.

The defense definitely took a hit last year. Although I prefer to go by points allowed and points for rather the NFL's yards since points are what results in wins and loses, not yards. The defense ranked 12th in points allowed, not that great, but better than average.

[WhoDeyWho]

(07-08-2015, 11:28 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Russell Wilson won playoff games each of his first 3 years.  In fact he won a Superbowl in year 2, and made another appearance in year 3.  Joe Flacco advanced in the playoffs in each and every one his first 5 seasons.  Colin Kapernick made in the NFC Championship after 13 starts.  He returned again in year 2.  I think the Raped Crusader won a Superbowl in year 2.  And those are just examples off the top of my head.

Saying your QB couldn't or shouldn't win because he's only in year 3 (after 50 starts) really tells you everything you need to know about him.  (He just not that good.)

I didn't say that.  I'm simply asking why would you jump to the conclusion that he couldn't win a playoff game on account of what he did early in his career?

For all those guys you mentioned, I could easily name those who didn't win in their first three years, but finally did.  

[BengalChris]

(07-08-2015, 09:26 PM)Butchie Tiger Wrote: Run Hill and Gio down the other teams throat which will open up the passing game , this way we don't have to rely on Andy to win the game.

We can only hope that Jackson feels the same way.

[bearstronaut]

(07-08-2015, 11:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) Our defensive rankings in 2011, 2012 and 2013 were: 7th, 6th, 3rd.

So maybe people aren't ignoring the fact that we had a bad defense but more realize that we've had more than adequate ones before and have had the same results.  We've also been relatively healthy in previous years, and we've hosted a playoff game.

You keep on quoting our defenses regular season ranking.  Why?  They didn't play well in the playoff games.  Period. Andy Dalton put up some decent stats in those years regular seasons also.  But then he didn't play well in the playoff game.  That's your problem with him.  So why bring up that the defense was good in the regular season?  It doesnt matter if we had the number 1 ranked defense all 3 of the years you listed above.  They didnt show up in the playoff game.  Like the whole team.

[Wes Mantooth]

(07-09-2015, 01:29 AM)bearstronaut Wrote: You keep on quoting our defenses regular season ranking.  Why?  They didn't play well in the playoff games.  Period.  Andy Dalton put up some decent stats in those years regular seasons also.  But then he didn't play well in the playoff game.  That's your problem with him.  So why bring up that the defense was good in the regular season?  It doesnt matter if we had the number 1 ranked defense all 3 of the years you listed above.  They didnt show up in the playoff game.  Like the whole team.

No.  I was replying to someone who brought up the defensive ranking this season as an explanation as to why we fell short, and/or, IMO, to deflect blame from Andy.  I was simply asking for clarification as to why then we didn't win when our defense was near the top of the rankings, if they were truly to blame for this season's shortcomings. Same goes for injuries or lack thereof.

Strange how I hear the "whole team" always gets brought up in these losses.  But I also always hear about how many games "Andy has won."  Funny how that works.  Andy made the playoffs 4 straight years.  Andy has won 40 games.  The team lost those games though.  Sure, and Noodles historically awful playoff run has nothing to with it either.  Nothing more than a team effort. 

You guys flip flop and just make this garbage up on the fly.  Look no further than fact that I'm now trying defend the relevancy of team defense, after replying to a team Andy guy, who brought it up to begin with.  I'm now getting grilled on the relevancy on the very thing that was just used to defend him.  Amazing.  Simply amazing.