A Plea to All Christians

[*PhilHos*]

In the words of Elsa of Arendelle, let it go. We "lost" the fight against gay marriage. I wish I can say I didn't see it coming, but the fact remains that gay marriage is pretty much going to happen nationwide. Yes, there can and will be some resistance (like what we see in Texas), but honestly, why are we resisting? Why are we fighting so hard and damaging our reputation as a religion of love to keep in place a ban that affects, what, 2% of the population?

Make no mistake, I am against gay marriage as well, but the only argument I can find is strictly religious. Take away the religion and I honestly don't see an rational reason why a ban still needs to be in place.

With that said, my point is not to discuss the merits of the gay marriage discussion. My point is that we need to go back to demonstrating God's love and, make no mistake, we have failed. While I won't go so far and agree with that anti-religious or pro-gay marriage zealots who claim our speech is hate speech, it still comes perilously close. I get it, this used to be a Christian nation (whether atheists and others want to admit it or not) and we want it to stay that way, but it hasn't been a Christian nation for some time. A nation that has become okay with pre-marital sex, adolescent sex, recreational drug usage, cursing, divorce, and a whole host of other issues is not a Christian nation. Adding gay marriage to the list is not what makes us no longer a Christian nation.

And it's our fault. From church leaders on down to the attendee who only goes to church twice a year. We're all to blame. As a whole, we've become so critical of other's failings that we've become judgmental. To make matters worse, we don't even live by example. We're quick to point out what's wrong with others all the while hiding or rationalizing our own faults. Is it any wonder people routinely call Christians hypocrites?

Let's get back to loving our fellow man. Jesus exhorted us to "love our enemies". And while we shouldn't view people like those in favor of gay marriage as our enemies, nevertheless, we should love them. We should treat them they way we treat any we truly love. If you love your parents or your spouse or your children or your best friend, then love your "enemies" the exact same way. There's nothing wrong with standing up for your beliefs, but there is a way to go about it that doesn't conflict with loving your "enemies".

Remember, one of the commandments given to us by Jesus was to evangelize (the Great Commission). We cannot do that effectively if we're pushing away the very people who need Jesus.

So, enough is enough. Yes, we're against gay marriage. Everyone knows that. We will do our religion and more importantly, God, a disservice by furthering the fight. Instead of fighting homosexuals in their attempts at marriage, let's love them instead. Love them with the love of God. You might be surprised at the results if we ALL follow suit.

God bless.

[Devils Advocate]

Word to ya ( holy ) motha.

[SteelCitySouth]

Great post. I don't agree with all of it but the overall intent of the post is greater than the minor issues within it. Good on you Phil...

[Benton]

Quote:Remember, one of the commandments given to us by Jesus was to evangelize (the Great Commission). We cannot do that effectively if we're pushing away the very people who need Jesus.

And that's been my issue for a long time. I get the mantra of "hate the sin, love the sinner" but you can't love someone and make it conditional (you have to be perfect) at the same time. If Jesus had done that — had demanded we be perfect, not a desire to be perfect — then it would be a whole different issue.

[*michaelsean*]

I agree with her. It's now law, and barring an amendment that will never happen, it isn't changing. Christians should also move on from Citizens United as well.

[fredtoast]

(06-30-2015, 02:14 PM)michaelsean Wrote:  Christians should also move on from Citizens United as well.

I think you missed the part where Philhos pointed out that there was no logical reason to oppose gay marriage if you remove the religious aspect.

I don't think the same could be said for the ruling in Citizens United.  That is a dangerous precedent that could really damage our country.

i don't want to start a fight in this thread, but I think you missed the point.  You can be against gay marriage based on religious beliefs.  no one is saying that you can't.  But there is no real damage caused by allowing it.

[tigerseye]

These days when you disagree with something such as gay marriage you are portrayed as hating that group of individuals. This is not the case ,but to go along with sin is not being a christian. Do you hate people for it? No. But you don't just get along to be kinder and gentiler.

If you don't agree with homosexuality you don't have a phobia called "homophobia". You just don't agree with this behavior. These are labels being used to stop individual speech and to intimidate individuals so that people won't speak their minds on a given subject.

We are all sinners and we all need Jesus but to go along with sin and say its ok isn't right.  And The United States of America (the greatest christian nation to ever exist - my opinion) passing laws to go along with sin is very serious and is a turning point in our nation. If you go along with sin just to look kinder and gentiler and not approaching it as a serious subject your not being loving to those individuals your doing the opposite.

Jesus wants all of us sinners to go to heaven. Being against a behavior and speaking against a behavior is not hate. It is labeled hate by the individuals that don't like what your saying. Accepting that people are lost to their sin and not doing anything about it ,isn't that what hate really is. Jesus loves us all but we are not supposed to be weak and conform to sin to get along.  My thoughts. God Bless.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(06-30-2015, 01:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: We "lost" the fight against gay marriage.

'twas a sad and pathetic fight to begin with...

[SteelCitySouth]

The real problem with Gay Marriage

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-30-2015, 04:56 PM)tigerseye Wrote: These days when you disagree with something such as gay marriage you are portrayed as hating that group of individuals. This is not the case ,but to go along with sin is not being a christian. Do you hate people for it? No. But you don't just get along to be kinder and gentiler.

If you don't agree with homosexuality you don't have a phobia called "homophobia". You just don't agree with this behavior. These are labels being used to stop individual speech and to intimidate individuals so that people won't speak their minds on a given subject.

We are all sinners and we all need Jesus but to go along with sin and say its ok isn't right.  And The United States of America (the greatest christian nation to ever exist - my opinion) passing laws to go along with sin is very serious and is a turning point in our nation. If you go along with sin just to look kinder and gentiler and not approaching it as a serious subject your not being loving to those individuals your doing the opposite.

Jesus wants all of us sinners to go to heaven. Being against a behavior and speaking against a behavior is not hate. It is labeled hate by the individuals that don't like what your saying. Accepting that people are lost to their sin and not doing anything about it ,isn't that what hate really is. Jesus loves us all but we are not supposed to be weak and conform to sin to get along.  My thoughts. God Bless.

Do I need Jesus if I'm a Taoist?

[Westwood Bengal]

Hilarious.


We need to get back to spreading god's word…..I really love the classics. Like it's some sort of PR problem.

[WhoDeyWho]

(06-30-2015, 01:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote:  I get it, this used to be a Christian nation (whether atheists and others want to admit it or not) and we want it to stay that way, but it hasn't been a Christian nation for some time. A nation that has become okay with pre-marital sex, adolescent sex, recreational drug usage, cursing, divorce, and a whole host of other issues is not a Christian nation. Adding gay marriage to the list is not what makes us no longer a Christian nation.

Was it a "Christian Nation" when blacks were slaves?  When blacks and whites couldn't marry?  What about when women and blacks couldn't vote?

[fredtoast]

(06-30-2015, 04:56 PM)tigerseye Wrote: These days when you disagree with something such as gay marriage you are portrayed as hating that group of individuals. This is not the case ,but to go along with sin is not being a christian. Do you hate people for it? No. But you don't just get along to be kinder and gentiler.

If you don't agree with homosexuality you don't have a phobia called "homophobia". You just don't agree with this behavior. These are labels being used to stop individual speech and to intimidate individuals so that people won't speak their minds on a given subject.

We are all sinners and we all need Jesus but to go along with sin and say its ok isn't right.  And The United States of America (the greatest christian nation to ever exist - my opinion) passing laws to go along with sin is very serious and is a turning point in our nation. If you go along with sin just to look kinder and gentiler and not approaching it as a serious subject your not being loving to those individuals your doing the opposite.

Jesus wants all of us sinners to go to heaven. Being against a behavior and speaking against a behavior is not hate. It is labeled hate by the individuals that don't like what your saying. Accepting that people are lost to their sin and not doing anything about it ,isn't that what hate really is. Jesus loves us all but we are not supposed to be weak and conform to sin to get along.  My thoughts. God Bless.

I never accuse anyone of "hating" just because they have different religious beliefs.

But when you deny people equal protection under the law or discriminate against them in any way that is just wrong.  And when you treat people wrong and they suffer because of it then it doesn't matter if you call it "hate" or not.  It has the same effect.

if you think someones baby has a demon in it and you kill the baby it doesn't matter how much you claim not to hate the baby.  The baby is still dead.  i realize that is an extreme example, but to the people who have been denied equal protection under the law and discriminated against the fact that you refuse to call it "hate" doesn't matter.

You can have your religious beliefs.  No one  is taking them away from you in any way.  But the laws of this country are not based on religious beliefs.   The United States is not a Christian theocracy.  It doesn't matter if you think homosexuality is a sin.  It doesn't have any adverse effect on anyone else.  There is no compelling public interest that would allow discriminating against homosexuals. 

So just do like Phil suggest.  Continue to pray for the sinners, but don't punish them.  Treat them with love instead of discriminating against them. If you really believe that your god is all powerful then he shouldn't need the United states government to help him out.

[fredtoast]

(06-30-2015, 06:03 PM)Westwood Bengal Wrote: Hilarious.


We need to get back to spreading god's word…..I really love the classics. Like it's some sort of PR problem.

(06-30-2015, 06:09 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Was it a "Christian Nation" when blacks were slaves?  When blacks and whites couldn't marry?  What about when women and blacks couldn't vote?

C'mon guys.  We have been over this in the other threads.  Phil is actually try to do something good here.  I realize parts of his post sound a little self-righteous, but overall what he has to say is very positive.

if you really are accepting of other beliefs and only have problem with actions taken on those beliefs then you should have no problem with this thread.

[fredtoast]

As for Tigerseye I find it a little unusual that a guy joins a football message board and goes directly to the P & R section to start arguing about religion. I have a feeling we should know exactly what to expect from him. So don't let him stir things up the way he wants to.

[WhoDeyWho]

(06-30-2015, 06:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: C'mon guys.  We have been over this in the other threads.  Phil is actually try to do something good here.  I realize parts of his post sound a little self-righteous, but overall what he has to say is very positive.

if you really are accepting of other beliefs and only have problem with actions taken on those beliefs then you should have no problem with this thread.

It insinuates that there was once a time in our country's history where we were somehow more moral.  As a black man, I have no desire to ever go back to those times.  

[Harmening]

(06-30-2015, 06:09 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Was it a "Christian Nation" when blacks were slaves?  When blacks and whites couldn't marry?  What about when women and blacks couldn't vote?

Or when a woman was to be stoned to death if she were to ever divorce?

[Beaker]

If youre against gay marriage....dont marry a gay person.

[fredtoast]

(06-30-2015, 06:31 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: It insinuates that there was once a time in our country's history where we were somehow more moral.  As a black man, I have no desire to ever go back to those times.  

I know.  I know.  I agree with you 100%.  But I believe you have to accept that other people have different beliefs.  

I only get upset when they start forcing their beliefs on us or discriminating based on their beliefs.  What Phil seems to be saying is that they can't do that.  They are entitled to believe anything they want as long as they don't try to make everyone else live by their rules.

[WhoDeyWho]

(06-30-2015, 06:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I know.  I know.  I agree with you 100%.  But I believe you have to accept that other people have different beliefs.  

I only get upset when they start forcing their beliefs on us or discriminating based on their beliefs.  What Phil seems to be saying is that they can't do that.  They are entitled to believe anything they want as long as they don't try to make everyone else live by their rules.

I understand they have different beliefs. I was just wanting clarification on whether or not those beliefs included slavery, misogyny, and racism that was prevalent until about the middle 20th century in the US.