A bullying fine?

[GMDino]

I call it my Italian temper:  It might happen quick, it might take a while, but when it goes off it burns hot and fast.

Then it's over and we move on.

I learned quickly in high school that it served no purpose other than as a defense when threatened.  Fortunately it doesn't happen often anymore than I lose my mind like that...but I can point out two dent in the walls at work for a brief moment of hate.

[XenoMorph]

(05-13-2016, 05:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: You'll never stomp out bullying at anytime in life. It doesn't end after school, it just takes a different shape, it's part of human nature. I think we need to spend more time teaching kids to cope and deal with it. I'm not saying tell them "just deal with it", I mean we need to teach them techniques and give them perspective to handle that it will inevitably happen to them. We are all about trying to stop it, but that's like a war on drugs, rather than fighting a battle that can't be won let's teach them to live in reality and make good choices within that reality (like not killing yourself or others because of it).

Exactly. one thing I don't understand these days is if someone feels left out or there feelings are hurt etc everyone else needs to change for them?  Now I was kinda raised maybe outside the norm as my mom passed when I was young and my dad had to work to feed us.  So I had a lot of learn it for yourself type situations.  but basically the world is and can be a hard and cruel place.  If your expecting everyone to like you its gonna hurt when your bubble is popped.  You just gotta learn to roll with the punches (literally of figuratively) its not fair its not always right but its life.   Who cares if that guy calls you fat or some other name he doesn't know you your situation or what your capable of.  He is trying to make himself feel better at your expense you could get angery or sad.  Or you could think wow his life must suck really bad if he has to go out of his way to make fun of me for no reason.  He his no longer a bully at that point... just a misguided person.

Sometimes you gotta just walk away from a situation too if all the outcomes of fighting will be bad. call me a ***** I don't care at least im not going to jail for smashing this rock thru your face. and your still alive. sigh..

in the end.  the only persons opinion of you that truly matter is your own. and your the only one you have to live with every day forever.

Learning how to handle deal and think about these situations can be the difference in having a bad day or some kid killing themselves or someone else.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-13-2016, 10:25 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I agree. Most bullying is not physical bullying, it is emotional bullying. Among girls, it is almost exclusively emotional. Shaming is just another form of emotional bullying. I do not see "bullying the bully" as an answer. Rather, I think it is adding gas to a fire and reinforcing a concept that bullying is okay under the tag of "under certain circumstances" (i.e. two wrongs don't make a right). 

Is crying to an adult the answer?  You are basically telling the bully that you are too weak to stop it.  How is that not fueling more bullying?  

[StLucieBengal]

(05-13-2016, 05:18 PM)IAu165 Wrote: You'll never stomp out bullying at anytime in life. It doesn't end after school, it just takes a different shape, it's part of human nature. I think we need to spend more time teaching kids to cope and deal with it. I'm not saying tell them "just deal with it", I mean we need to teach them techniques and give them perspective to handle that it will inevitably happen to them. We are all about trying to stop it, but that's like a war on drugs, rather than fighting a battle that can't be won let's teach them to live in reality and make good choices within that reality (like not killing yourself or others because of it).

It's just a never ending circle of alpha/beta dynamics of a group.  

No one wants their kids bullied.   But they need coping skills.   Not just running to an adult.  You never grow as a person if someone is always taking care of your needs.  

[Au165]

(05-13-2016, 06:44 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Is crying to an adult the answer?  You are basically telling the bully that you are too weak to stop it.  How is that not fueling more bullying?  

There is a time to go to an adult. There is a line between bullying and harassment. That is part of the teaching that had to be done. If someone says something mean to you from time to time you learn to ignore them. If they follow you around and harass you every waking minute the kid needs assistance in dealing with the issue. Think of it in adult terms if someone on the street says something mean you keep walkin let it go, if they follow you everywhere you go and get aggressive you may call for police.

The key is to explain why one requires assistance and the other should attempt to be handled on their own first.

[GMDino]

(05-13-2016, 06:54 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It's just a never ending circle of alpha/beta dynamics of a group.  

No one wants their kids bullied.   But they need coping skills.   Not just running to an adult.  You never grow as a person if someone is always taking care of your needs.  

I highlighted the qualifiers that make what you are arguing not what everyone is talking about.

[Bengalzona]

(05-13-2016, 06:44 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Is crying to an adult the answer?  You are basically telling the bully that you are too weak to stop it.  How is that not fueling more bullying?  

Yes. I would say in most cases that crying to an adult is the best answer. Bullies become bullies because the people they terrorize are too weak physically and/or emotionally to stop them. It is not a weakness to admit that you are in a situation that you are too weak to stop. In fact, accepting and acknowledging that is known as wisdom. As is seeking help. Is this not what drives millions of Christians to their knees in prayer everyday? 

If your point is that being exposed to a bully (which is almost guaranteed for everyone) can help a person grow in some ways, I can agree. However, being subjected to daily or even periodic bullying with no hope or expectation of help or assistance is something different: It is a form of personal terrorism. And it is unacceptable. Nothing positive comes from that and, ultimately the only fruit it begets is more bullying from the former victim.  

[Bengalzona]

(05-13-2016, 05:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: I call it my Italian temper:  It might happen quick, it might take a while, but when it goes off it burns hot and fast.

Then it's over and we move on.

Definitely Italian! 

In Napoli, they call that sfogari... if I remember right. It means getting it off your chest and getting on with life. (The literal translation is "to exhale" or "to vent").

Might be one of the reasons they have longer life spans in Southern Italy, eh.

[*Nately120*]

(05-13-2016, 06:44 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Is crying to an adult the answer?  You are basically telling the bully that you are too weak to stop it.  How is that not fueling more bullying?  

Do you always see asking or expecting figures of authority to do their job and intervene as some sort of weak cop-out, or does that only count for children?  If someone terrorizes you and/or your family would you consider calling the police and having him thrown in jail where he belongs as some sort of crybaby wuss move?

Some seniors were bullying me in a class where the teacher was a lazy ass drunk and I eventually got so sick of it that I went to my parents and the principal and we sent a simple message that certain people in that school need to start doing their damn jobs and be accountable for the environment they're providing students.  I don't expect teachers to be prison wardens, but you have to hold them accountable for the environment they provide.

It's also interesting that you being one who thinks teachers are union-fed untouchables would be so against them being held accountable for allowing this crap to happen.  In my experience, the worst stuff happens (be in bullying of the physical or sexual nature) when the teacher just lets everything go. Minors don't respond well to excessively unfocused and lax environments.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-13-2016, 07:56 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yes. I would say in most cases that crying to an adult is the best answer. Bullies become bullies because the people they terrorize are too weak physically and/or emotionally to stop them. It is not a weakness to admit that you are in a situation that you are too weak to stop. In fact, accepting and acknowledging that is known as wisdom. As is seeking help. Is this not what drives millions of Christians to their knees in prayer everyday? 

If your point is that being exposed to a bully (which is almost guaranteed for everyone) can help a person grow in some ways, I can agree. However, being subjected to daily or even periodic bullying with no hope or expectation of help or assistance is something different: It is a form of personal terrorism. And it is unacceptable. Nothing positive comes from that and, ultimately the only fruit it begets is more bullying from the former victim.  

Personal terrorism isn't the same as typical bullying.  The issue is we treat run of the mill bully behavior like it is personal terrorism.  

[StLucieBengal]

(05-13-2016, 08:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Do you always see asking or expecting figures of authority to do their job and intervene as some sort of weak cop-out, or does that only count for children?  If someone terrorizes you and/or your family would you consider calling the police and having him thrown in jail where he belongs as some sort of crybaby wuss move?

Some seniors were bullying me in a class where the teacher was a lazy ass drunk and I eventually got so sick of it that I went to my parents and the principal and we sent a simple message that certain people in that school need to start doing their damn jobs and be accountable for the environment they're providing students.  I don't expect teachers to be prison wardens, but you have to hold them accountable for the environment they provide.

It's also interesting that you being one who thinks teachers are union-fed untouchables would be so against them being held accountable for allowing this crap to happen.  In my experience, the worst stuff happens (be in bullying of the physical or sexual nature) when the teacher just lets everything go.  Minors don't respond well to excessively unfocused and lax environments.

Actually kids do respond when you take the leash off and let them figure out for themselves.    Sometimes they flourish and sometimes they don't.... But when they don't they get the chance to pick themselves up and try again.     

It's hard to not want to take the hits for kids.   But your hurting them by always protecting them.   

[*Nately120*]

(05-13-2016, 08:54 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Actually kids do respond when you take the leash off and let them figure out for themselves.    Sometimes they flourish and sometimes they don't.... But when they don't they get the chance to pick themselves up and try again.     

It's hard to not want to take the hits for kids.   But your hurting them by always protecting them.   

I see.  Well to be sure your kids figure themselves out I suggest you send them to a shitty and unfunded inner-city school where the chances of them getting any help regarding these issues will be virtually nonexistent.  I have to admit I find it interesting how certain conservatives seem to laud the value of hands-off parenting, learning to take a punch, and fending for yourself and yet condemn the very segments of our society that are raised on a steady diet of "Tough luck kid, life isn't fair, fend for yourself!"

The entire business of social work is built upon society and taxpayers trying to pick up the pieces of the lifestyle unleashed.

Again, to each his own. I personally dealt with bullies by taking a lead pipe from a room under renovation and keeping it under my desk. I don't feel particularly cool that I did that, I don't see it as a situation that built character in me, and I feel like my kids going through the same thing would indicate a certain amount of failure on my part. But who knows. Maybe if you were my ol' man you would have rewarded my weaponry defense with a trip to the cathouse!

[Rotobeast]

(05-13-2016, 05:30 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yeah, I know all about that short fuse. And that fire underneath.

Mine is slower to get going, but I blow up, and I'm angry for up to two days.
I literally wake up the next day, pissed off.

(05-13-2016, 05:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: I call it my Italian temper:  It might happen quick, it might take a while, but when it goes off it burns hot and fast.

Then it's over and we move on.

I learned quickly in high school that it served no purpose other than as a defense when threatened.  Fortunately it doesn't happen often anymore than I lose my mind like that...but I can point out two dent in the walls at work for a brief moment of hate.

I have 9 scars on my right hand alone, from punching through car windows to get to people and taking anger out on walls, ect....

Arthritis has not been kind, so I now use a forearm/elbow or a muay thai knee.

[Bengalzona]

(05-13-2016, 08:47 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Personal terrorism isn't the same as typical bullying.  The issue is we treat run of the mill bully behavior like it is personal terrorism.  

Bullying that reoccurs is not "run of the mill". And more often than not, it is reoccurring because there is nothing or no one to stop it unless an adult steps in.

If my son has an incident, I know that he would tell me. I would ask him what he wants to do about it. If he wants to work it out himself, I'm willing to step back and let him try until he asks for help. If he wants advise, I'll give him advise. If he wants me to teach him to fight, I'm going to tell him that that is a dark path... but I will probably show him some things. If he wants me to intervene directly, then I will go through the school and resolve it immediately.

I like to empower him to make choices on his own. But if the bullying continues, the empowerment game ends and I end the bullying directly (most probably by going through the school, as I know most of the teachers there). He goes to school to learn the curriculum, not how to deal with some other parents failure.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-13-2016, 10:34 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Bullying that reoccurs is not "run of the mill". And more often than not, it is reoccurring because there is nothing or no one to stop it unless an adult steps in.

If my son has an incident, I know that he would tell me. I would ask him what he wants to do about it. If he wants to work it out himself, I'm willing to step back and let him try until he asks for help. If he wants advise, I'll give him advise. If he wants me to teach him to fight, I'm going to tell him that that is a dark path... but I will probably show him some things. If he wants me to intervene directly, then I will go through the school and resolve it immediately.

I like to empower him to make choices on his own. But if the bullying continues, the empowerment game ends and I end the bullying directly (most probably by going through the school, as I know most of the teachers there). He goes to school to learn the curriculum, not how to deal with some other parents failure.

So we agree then.   

I have more of a problem with the overreaction of schools on this matter.   The reason this is an issue is because we have broad definition of bullying and it allows bad parents to be worse parents.   

[StLucieBengal]

(05-13-2016, 09:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I see.  Well to be sure your kids figure themselves out I suggest you send them to a shitty and unfunded inner-city school where the chances of them getting any help regarding these issues will be virtually nonexistent.  I have to admit I find it interesting how certain conservatives seem to laud the value of hands-off parenting, learning to take a punch, and fending for yourself and yet condemn the very segments of our society that are raised on a steady diet of "Tough luck kid, life isn't fair, fend for yourself!"

The entire business of social work is built upon society and taxpayers trying to pick up the pieces of the lifestyle unleashed.

Again, to each his own.  I personally dealt with bullies by taking a lead pipe from a room under renovation and keeping it under my desk.  I don't feel particularly cool that I did that, I don't see it as a situation that built character in me, and I feel like my kids going through the same thing would indicate a certain amount of failure on my part.  But who knows.  Maybe if you were my ol' man you would have rewarded my weaponry defense with a trip to the cathouse!

A school doesn't get bad because it's under funded.  Schools are bad because the parents are bad and make the teachers job insurmountable.     

Now as a good parent I make sure my kids don't see schools like this ....  

And look at you.... You exactly how to cope with a bully as an adult.   Like it or not .... It did build character.   

[Vas Deferens]

(05-14-2016, 12:30 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: A school doesn't get bad because it's under funded.  

This is a prime example of someone saying something they do not actually believe I a sole effort to back up previous statements.  I know you don't believe this.  You know you don't believe this.  Can we stop the farce already?

[StLucieBengal]

(05-14-2016, 01:42 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: This is a prime example of someone saying something they do not actually believe I a sole effort to back up previous statements.  I know you don't believe this.  You know you don't believe this.  Can we stop the farce already?

I have consistently said this...  It's my argument over public schools.   It's not about the money when money is wasted on admins and inflated salary and benefits for union workers.   

[fredtoast]

(05-13-2016, 06:44 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Is crying to an adult the answer?  

Yes.  We have already had this discussion and you were unable to give a better option when confronted with detailed hypotheticals.

As adults we go to the police when we are victims of crimes.  I don't know why children should not be taught to behave like adults.

The result of telling kids that there is not auhtority is gang violence.   

[StLucieBengal]

(05-15-2016, 10:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  We have already had this discussion and you were unable to give a better option when confronted with detailed hypotheticals.

As adults we go to the police when we are victims of crimes.  I don't know why children should not be taught to behave like adults.

The result of telling kids that there is not auhtority is gang violence.   

Getting bullied is not a crime.