Admit you voted for Biden

[*Nately120*]

(06-20-2022, 02:44 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: it's not greed buddy. it's capitalism. it's free market. it's taking responsibilty. it's what this nation was built on. if you want something, you work for it. you make sacrifices. you succeed or fail by the amount of blood, sweat and tears you put into it. you don't ask for handouts or bailouts, or freebies or free rides. in this country if you want something it'[s there for the taking. you jusy have to be willing to put in the effort and not look to everyone else to do it for you.

Agreed.

I don't understand how you square this viewpoint with your love of Trump, but I agree with this.

[Leon]

(06-20-2022, 02:39 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: There's two responses I have to this post...

1. Trump is likely no different than any other politician or president. He was/is involved in the corruption, double standards and harmful ideas. Believing otherwise is naivety. 
2. I will not be surprised to see him win in 2024. I did not vote for Trump, and will not in 2024, but current data suggests that he would win if the election were held today. Trump had very low approval ratings, but Biden is right there with him. 
   

trump isn't just another politician though. he's not even a politician. people hate him because he doesn't do the political game. he will call it like it is, say what needs to be said and doesn't care who likes the truth. they're going to get it anyways. that rubs some folks the wrong way cause they're used to pc and don't want to hear what's actually going on behind the curtains. trump's pulling those curtains back and people are getting nervous.

[Leon]

(06-20-2022, 02:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Agreed.

I don't understand how you square this viewpoint with your love of Trump, but I agree with this.

what do you mean. these are exactly the things trump advocates for.

[Belsnickel]

(06-20-2022, 02:51 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: what do you mean. these are exactly the things trump advocates for.

You're right. The man who built a brand after being handed a ton of money and who never takes accountability for anything stands for those things.

[*Nately120*]

(06-20-2022, 02:51 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: what do you mean. these are exactly the things trump advocates for.

Trump got millions from his old man and he's constantly asking for people to give him money.

Let's just agree to disagree on how much Trump believes or does this stuff and agree to agree on the sentiment. 

[*ochocincos*]

(06-20-2022, 02:44 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: it's not greed buddy. it's capitalism. it's free market. it's taking responsibilty. it's what this nation was built on. if you want something, you work for it. you make sacrifices. you succeed or fail by the amount of blood, sweat and tears you put into it. you don't ask for handouts or bailouts, or freebies or free rides. in this country if you want something it'[s there for the taking. you jusy have to be willing to put in the effort and not look to everyone else to do it for you.

While I agree with that to an extent (like if you want a yacht, Mercedes, going to a sporting event, or whatever), I don't think it should be that way for basic needs like food, water, shelter, basic utilities, education, etc.

Someone should not have to work 50+ hours a week just to survive.
There's (much) more to life than work.

I assume if you see someone in need, you think they should just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," eh?

For the record, I don't have my stance for my own sake. I don't need anything. I was $80k in debt from college and have it nearly paid off. I live in a nice house. On the verge of buying a boat. I did all of that when literally starting my first job out of college overdrafting my bank account and running on fumes until I finally got my first paycheck.
But I also acknowledge that housing costs are insane now. It's not realistic to think someone who doesn't already own a house will be able to save up 20% of a $300k+ home for 10+ years (if ever for some people). You're talking someone saving up $60k just for a down payment. Most of the population doesn't have that amount saved up. If you're renting, many places cost $1000+ a month now. You're not going to be able to afford that if you don't make $50k+ and have a few hundred bucks a month debt you have to pay. Add in a potential car payment on top of that.
People shouldn't have to sacrifice years of their lives just to get by.

[Leon]

(06-20-2022, 02:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're right. The man who built a brand after being handed a ton of money and who never takes accountability for anything stands for those things.

(06-20-2022, 02:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump got millions from his old man and he's constantly asking for people to give him money.

Let's just agree to disagree on how much Trump believes or does this stuff and agree to agree on the sentiment. 

you're making it sound like trump did something wrong because fred was already wealthy and trump was born into it? he had no control of that. how about giving him credit for building a branding empire and making the trump brand a household name? 

he's also been very smart about using the loopholes and advantages built into the system, but that doesn't mean he doesn't think those are a problem because he does and has said so many times. please tell the whole story instead of just trying to paint him in them box given to you by the left. there are many different sides to trump and you're only focusing on what you want.

[KillerGoose]

(06-20-2022, 02:49 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: trump isn't just another politician though. he's not even a politician. people hate him because he doesn't do the political game. he will call it like it is, say what needs to be said and doesn't care who likes the truth. they're going to get it anyways. that rubs some folks the wrong way cause they're used to pc and don't want to hear what's actually going on behind the curtains. trump's pulling those curtains back and people are getting nervous.

Well, he's a politician now. He wasn't when he was elected, but for the last seven years he has been heavily involved in politics and certainly plays the political game. It benefits him to do so.

[basballguy]

(06-20-2022, 02:37 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I've heard some people say they don't want to "pay for someone else to go to college" if it means increasing taxes to pay for it.


But yes, I would assume nearly everyone feels that the cost of college is too high.
A big reason for that is because banks were (are) willing to loan out the money if students couldn't pay for it themselves, so colleges didn't feel the need to lower their costs. They knew they'd get the money one way or another.

When you're a country who has a core principle surrounding the concept of "make as much money as possible," it's no surprise that most people/companies don't try to keep costs lower out of the kindness of their heart.
Greed really is the American dream.

Ok but then that's impacted their bottom line...which is what you said the baseline of how the GOP votes.  I also agree, increasing my taxes to do literally anything is a bad idea.  We do not need any more taxes....

It's easy for people hanging out around the poverty level to say "ya sure, increase taxes" because they already aren't paying much.  It's not a balanced system.  

Separately, the idea of programs that help the needy is that those programs (or tax rates) help them catch up with the rest of society they fell behind....or worst case not fall further behind.  

If they are living there in perpetuity, then is it the programs' (or tax rates) fault?  Unlikely.  How does introducing new taxes or programs help?   The perception is it won't....so all you did was add another burden on the middle class and subsequently raising the bar for those at poverty to actually reach middle class....which now causes people to be more concerned about their bottom line since they know that bar is going to continue to rise.  

You can call it capitalism.  I call it self preservation.  

[*Nately120*]

(06-20-2022, 03:02 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: you're making it sound like trump did something wrong because fred was already wealthy and trump was born into it? he had no control of that. 

Donald Trump could have respectfully declined to accept millions of dollars from his father.  How much money did your ol' man give to you?

[Leon]

(06-20-2022, 02:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: While I agree with that to an extent (like if you want a yacht, Mercedes, going to a sporting event, or whatever), I don't think it should be that way for basic needs like food, water, shelter, basic utilities, education, etc.

Someone should not have to work 50+ hours a week just to survive.
There's (much) more to life than work.

I assume if you see someone in need, you think they should just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps," eh?

For the record, I don't have my stance for my own sake. I don't need anything. I was $80k in debt from college and have it nearly paid off. I live in a nice house. On the verge of buying a boat. I did all of that when literally starting my first job out of college overdrafting my bank account and running on fumes until I finally got my first paycheck.
But I also acknowledge that housing costs are insane now. It's not realistic to think someone who doesn't already own a house will be able to save up 20% of a $300k+ home for 10+ years (if ever for some people). You're talking someone saving up $60k just for a down payment. Most of the population doesn't have that amount saved up. If you're renting, many places cost $1000+ a month now. You're not going to be able to afford that if you don't make $50k+ and have a few hundred bucks a month debt you have to pay. Add in a potential car payment on top of that.
People shouldn't have to sacrifice years of their lives just to get by.

there's nothing wrong with working 50 hours a week if you want to earn a 50 hour a week paycheck and afford 50 hour a week things. you do what you have to do. this isn't a mean idea. it's a common sense one.

i will help someone if i know they're willing work and just need a little help here or there. if they're lazy and don't want to work, sorry i'm not their social safety net. like with owning a house like you mentioned. 

if you can't afford one now, keep saving. work extra jobs if you have to. sell stuff and put the money in the bank. if you're willing to sacrifice then it's achievable. we have to stop with this idea of things should come easy or without any struggle.

i'm a landlord. i have 12 properties. i have costs associated with those. i can't just discount the rent and take the hit myself because people think rent should be lower. we have to adjust for many factors and that gets passed onto the rentors. it's just the reality. if you can't afford 1000 dollar rent, then don't move into a 1000 dollar property.

[*Nately120*]

(06-20-2022, 03:10 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote:  we have to stop with this idea of things should come easy or without any struggle.

And we do that by idolizing a guy who was born rich and exploits loopholes in the system?  God bless the people who fought and died for your right to simp for that NYC elitist.  

Ok, I gotta show some restraint here and try to log out, this is just too damn interesting and distracting. 

[Leon]

(06-20-2022, 03:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Donald Trump could have respectfully declined to accept millions of dollars from his father.  How much money did your ol' man give to you?

my old man didn't give me anything, but that's not the point. trump was born into a different situation and made the most of it. why is that bad? 

[basballguy]

(06-20-2022, 03:10 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: if you can't afford one now, keep saving. work extra jobs if you have to. sell stuff and put the money in the bank. if you're willing to sacrifice then it's achievable. we have to stop with this idea of things should come easy or without any struggle.

I think you're gonna lose a lot of people with this statement.  

We shouldn't have to "sacrifice" anything to achieve basic goals.  Sure, home ownership is a privilege, but lol....I don't think people need to sacrifice anything to own a home.  Maybe work harder if they need to.  

Nor do I think anyone should have to struggle to achieve those things.  

I might just be getting caught up on your wording but generally speaking, responsible adults should be able to provide for their families without struggle and sacrifice.  

[*ochocincos*]

(06-20-2022, 03:10 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: there's nothing wrong with working 50 hours a week if you want to earn a 50 hour a week paycheck and afford 50 hour a week things. you do what you have to do. this isn't a mean idea. it's a common sense one.

i will help someone if i know they're willing work and just need a little help here or there. if they're lazy and don't want to work, sorry i'm not their social safety net. like with owning a house like you mentioned. 

if you can't afford one now, keep saving. work extra jobs if you have to. sell stuff and put the money in the bank. if you're willing to sacrifice then it's achievable. we have to stop with this idea of things should come easy or without any struggle.

i'm a landlord. i have 12 properties. i have costs associated with those. i can't just discount the rent and take the hit myself because people think rent should be lower. we have to adjust for many factors and that gets passed onto the rentors. it's just the reality. if you can't afford 1000 dollar rent, then don't move into a 1000 dollar property.

Again, I said one shouldn't HAVE to work 50+ hours a week to survive. I am talking about basic needs.
If someone WANTS to work extra hours/jobs to make additional money, that's their choice.
But they shouldn't HAVE to just to get by.
For many people, they HAVE to because their costs of goods and services are too high for them to be able to afford on their 40-hour wage.

Depending on what you're meaning when you say "willing to sacrifice," I may agree or not agree.

Do I think everyone should have a PS5, a 65" TV, and drive a $30k car? 
No.

Do I think everyone should be able to cover for basic apartment, transportation, basic utilities (water, electric, gas, internet, phone), and food while making at least minimum wage and working 40 hours a week? 
Yes.

At the current rate of $7.25/hr at 40 hours a week, you're talking only $1160 every 4 weeks before taxes.
I don't know where you live, but the average apartment rental costs $1694 here in Nashville.
There's quite a good population who has lived here from 20+ years ago that are getting driven out because of continued rising prices but not high enough increase in pay to accommodate for it.

[basballguy]

(06-20-2022, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't know where you live, but the average apartment rental costs $1694 here in Nashville.

Do I think everyone should be able to cover for basic apartment, transportation, basic utilities (water, electric, gas, internet, phone), and food while making at least minimum wage and working 40 hours a week? 
Yes.

I'm riding a roller coaster with your posts today.  You'll say like 4 or 5 things I can agree with then one or two things that make me do a doubletake.  :)  

If you're gonna put the average rent, why not put the average wage (instead of the lowest possible wage?)  What's the lowest possible rent in Nashville?  I bet it's not 1700/month. 

Anyways, those people on the lower end of the income scale making 300/week fulltime can afford those things with the programs that are available to them.  Housing assistance, welfare, zero tax liability.  Will they get a 1700/month apartment?  Probably not.  Will they be able to survive?  In theory, yes.  

Unless of course, you're advocating to raise the minimum wage, eliminate those programs, and level the tax liability.  I can get behind that idea.  :)

[Leon]

(06-20-2022, 03:18 PM)basballguy Wrote: I think you're gonna lose a lot of people with this statement.  

We shouldn't have to "sacrifice" anything to achieve basic goals.  Sure, home ownership is a privilege, but lol....I don't think people need to sacrifice anything to own a home.  Maybe work harder if they need to.  

Nor do I think anyone should have to struggle to achieve those things.  

I might just be getting caught up on your wording but generally speaking, responsible adults should be able to provide for their families without struggle and sacrifice.  

really? you don't think it's worth passing up on some things you may want to own a home? working an extra job? saying people don't need to make any sacrifices is part of the problem. things don't always come easy and shouldn't of they're important enough.

you do those things, make some sacrifices along the way, be smart with your money and guess what, you'll eventually own a home. the sacrifices will pay off. don't know why the idea of working hard and doing what it takes turns people off but that's not my problem.

[Leon]

(06-20-2022, 03:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Again, I said one shouldn't HAVE to work 50+ hours a week to survive. I am talking about basic needs.
If someone WANTS to work extra hours/jobs to make additional money, that's their choice.
But they shouldn't HAVE to just to get by.
For many people, they HAVE to because their costs of goods and services are too high for them to be able to afford on their 40-hour wage.

Depending on what you're meaning when you say "willing to sacrifice," I may agree or not agree.

Do I think everyone should have a PS5, a 65" TV, and drive a $30k car? 
No.

Do I think everyone should be able to cover for basic apartment, transportation, basic utilities (water, electric, gas, internet, phone), and food while making at least minimum wage and working 40 hours a week? 
Yes.

At the current rate of $7.25/hr at 40 hours a week, you're talking only $1160 every 4 weeks before taxes.
I don't know where you live, but the average apartment rental costs $1694 here in Nashville.
There's quite a good population who has lived here from 20+ years ago that are getting driven out because of continued rising prices but not high enough increase in pay to accommodate for it.

i don't consider internet or phone as basics utilities. those are extras. if you can't afford them, then pick up an extra parttime job somewhere. plenty of placing hiring. 

[*ochocincos*]

(06-20-2022, 03:47 PM)basballguy Wrote: I'm riding a roller coaster with your posts today.  You'll say like 4 or 5 things I can agree with then one or two things that make me do a doubletake.  :)  

If you're gonna put the average rent, why not put the average wage (instead of the lowest possible wage?)  What's the lowest possible rent in Nashville?  I bet it's not 1700/month. 

Anyways, those people on the lower end of the income scale making 300/week fulltime can afford those things with the programs that are available to them.  Housing assistance, welfare, zero tax liability.  Will they get a 1700/month apartment?  Probably not.  Will they be able to survive?  In theory, yes.  

Unless of course, you're advocating to raise the minimum wage, eliminate those programs, and level the tax liability.  I can get behind that idea.  :)

I don't know if I can answer all those questions, but here's what I can tell you - $1700/month apartment is crazy high. That's about the cost of apartments right by my office building.
I do see a small number of apartments for $800-1000, but they are in a terrible part of downtown. I would not choose to live over there unless it was absolutely necessary. Costs like that are not something someone making $40k or less really can realistically afford. And not everywhere is paying even $15+ per hour, which would be $31,200 per year on 40 hours a week, 52 weeks.

I lived in a $800/month apartment in Columbus, OH back in 2008-2011. It now costs $1500+ for a 1-BR in the same exact complex. Nothing really about the apartment complex has changed.


Housing/rent costs have about doubled, but salaries/wages in a majority of jobs have not jumped quite to the same degree.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-20-2022, 04:09 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: i don't consider internet or phone as basics utilities. those are extras. if you can't afford them, then pick up an extra parttime job somewhere. plenty of placing hiring. 

We're going to have to agree to disagree then.
How are you supposed to contact anyone if you don't have phone or internet?