Another mass shooting

[GMDino]

The bank should have had security?

https://www.wave3.com/2023/04/10/lmpd-4-dead-9-injured-including-2-officers-downtown-louisville-shooting-suspect-dead/

Quote:LMPD: 4 dead, 9 injured including 2 officers from downtown Louisville shooting; suspect dead














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By Dustin Vogt and WAVE Staff
Published: Apr. 10, 2023 at 9:01 AM EDT|Updated: 6 minutes ago






LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WAVE) - The Louisville Metro Police Department confirmed four people have died from an active shooting in downtown Louisville near Slugger Field on Monday morning.

LMPD and Louisville Metro Mayor Craig Greenberg advised everyone to avoid the 300 block of East Main Street, specifically at Old National Bank.

Calls came around 8:30 a.m. to the Old National Bank on reports of an active shooter in the area, according to MetroSafe dispatchers. The call was changed to an active aggressor report a short time later.

According to LMPD Deputy Chief Paul Humphrey, officers arrived on scene with Louisville Fire and EMS, where active gunshots were being fired.

Around 10:15 a.m., police said there is no longer an active aggressor threat and that “the suspected shooter has been neutralized.”


Humphrey said officers exchanged gunfire with the suspect and the suspect died at the scene. The circumstances leading to the shooter’s death have not been identified.


Police confirmed four people died, and University Hospital confirmed nine total patients were treated following Monday’s shooting. Two of the injured victims have been confirmed as LMPD officers.

There are two injured victims in critical condition as of 1 p.m., including one of the officers.

UofL Health said as of 1 p.m., three of the victims have already been discharged.

Police said the shooter had a connection to the bank, possibly as a prior employee.


The shooting occurred Monday morning in downtown Louisville.
(Story continues below)

Kentucky governor Andy Beshear provided an update in Louisville following the shooting, saying two of his close friends died in the shooting and another friend is within the hospital.

“When we talk about praying, I hope people will,” Beshear said. “For those that we are hoping can make it through the surgeries that they are going through and we got to do what we have done these last three years after everything, we got to wrap our arms around these families. And everybody who needs it, don’t be afraid to get some help.”


Further details are expected throughout the day from LMPD.
(Story continues below)



Louisville Metro police officers and FBI Louisville special agents are investigating at the scene and would be there throughout the day.
Rep. Morgan McGarvey shared his thoughts on the shooting.



Louisville Metro police confirmed there were deaths and injuries from the downtown shooting that happened Monday morning.

(Story continues below)


Old National Bank provided a statement on the shooting and said the CEO, Jim Ryan, was en route to Louisville.

“The safety of Old National Bank employees and everyone we serve in our banking center locations is paramount,” Ryan said in the statement. “As we await more details, we are deploying employee assistance support and keeping everyone affected by this tragedy in our thoughts and prayers.”

President Joe Biden said “our nation mourns after a senseless act of gun violence,” and mentioned inaction about stricter gun laws in a tweet.

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Sen. Mitch McConnell thanked LMPD and first responders for their bravery and sent prayers to the victims and their families.
(Story continues below)

Louisville Archbishop Shelton J. Fabre also released a statement following the shooting.

“My heart is heavy as we learn about another mass shooting, now in our own Louisville community,” Fabre said. “Even with our Easter hope so recently renewed, we have been quickly reminded that we still live in the shadow of the cross, the cross of senseless violence. For now, please join with me in praying for those who have died and for those who have been injured and for their families. Let us also pray for all in our community as we deal with this tragedy.”

Louisville mayor Craig Greenberg said the city would be setting up a family assistance center at the Kentucky International Convention Center for anyone involved in Monday’s shooting.


On Monday afternoon, officials began dropping off supplies for victims and their families.

[basballguy]

I was wondering if this was a shooting. My alert said it was an "active aggressor" earlier this morning which made me think someone was running around bonking people on the head with a baseball bat or something.

[*pally*]

The shooting took place before it was open. The shooter is believed to have been a former or current employee.

2 cops were shot

[KillerGoose]

Just terrible news. Will need to wait for more information. Five are now confirmed dead with one of the officers in critical condition and undergoing surgery. A AR-15 rifle was used to commit the shooting. 

[basballguy]

(04-10-2023, 03:10 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Just terrible news. Will need to wait for more information. Five are now confirmed dead with one of the officers in critical condition and undergoing surgery. An AR-15 was used to commit the shooting. 

I don't see anyone reporting what type of gun it is.  Can you share where you saw this?

[KillerGoose]

(04-10-2023, 03:16 PM)basballguy Wrote: I don't see anyone reporting what type of gun it is.  Can you share where you saw this?

Sure, here are a few articles that reference the weapon. The second article initially said an AR-15 but has now been changed to be AR-15 style rifle. The Associated Press just references a long rifle. 

Article 1

Article 2 (the wording has now changed to "AR-15 style" rifle)

Article 3 (witness describes a "long assault rifle")

Article 4 (references a "long gun")

There is probably some ambiguity as to whether it was actually an AR-15, but it is at least confirmed to be a rifle of sorts. 

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(04-10-2023, 03:31 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Sure, here are a few articles that reference the weapon. The second article initially said an AR-15 but has now been changed to be AR-15 style rifle. The Associated Press just references a long rifle. 

Article 1

Article 2 (the wording has now changed to "AR-15 style" rifle)

Article 3 (witness describes a "long assault rifle")

Article 4 (references a "long gun")

There is probably some ambiguity as to whether it was actually an AR-15, but it is at least confirmed to be a rifle of sorts. 

It's another AR-15 mass shooting, and I guess the AR-15 isn't responsible the person is.  Fentanyl doesn't kill people either unless they take it, but it's illegal. 

[basballguy]

(04-10-2023, 03:37 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: It's another AR-15 mass shooting, and I guess the AR-15 isn't responsible the person is.  Fentanyl doesn't kill people either unless they take it, but it's illegal. 

Doesn't look like we know if it was an AR-15 or not yet.  

Don't get lost in the nonsense of "AR-15 style"...that's a political term.  It's either an AR-15 or it's not.  

[HarleyDog]

(04-10-2023, 03:37 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: It's another AR-15 mass shooting, and I guess the AR-15 isn't responsible the person is.  Fentanyl doesn't kill people either unless they take it, but it's illegal. 

Most people don't use Fentanyl for sport, self-defense, or hunting. 

[Luvnit2]

(04-10-2023, 03:37 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: It's another AR-15 mass shooting, and I guess the AR-15 isn't responsible the person is.  Fentanyl doesn't kill people either unless they take it, but it's illegal. 

Car accidents kill far more people than guns each year in the US and in the world.

Should be ban automobiles also since they are the weapon of death? I lost a very good friend when I was 15, I was in the vehicle also when a maniac going over 100 MPH struck our vehicle while running a stop sign. Our car ended up over 100 yards away from initial impact.

I learned that day it is people who kill other people, they will find a weapon regardless of any law or ban.

[Luvnit2]

(04-10-2023, 04:14 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Most people don't use Fentanyl for sport, self-defense, or hunting. 

Also, Fentanyl is against the law, yet people get access and die. I believed it is a banned substance, again more people die from it than gun violence.

Bad people do bad things, time to have shooters take the responsibility, not the weapon used to do it.

[CKwi88]

Yawn.

Single digit kill count?

Double digit ages of the deceased?

Insert "Gotta pump those numbers up (or down)" meme.

[GMDino]

(04-10-2023, 04:14 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Most people don't use Fentanyl for sport, self-defense, or hunting. 

I was always curious as a non-hunter what one hunts with an AR-15.

My dad used a rifle.  Most people I know used a rifle.

[*pally*]

(04-10-2023, 04:13 PM)basballguy Wrote: Doesn't look like we know if it was an AR-15 or not yet.  

Don't get lost in the nonsense of "AR-15 style"...that's a political term.  It's either an AR-15 or it's not.  

You are nitpicking.

AR-15 style refers to a gun in the same category and similar style as the AR-15.  It is not a political term...it is a reference term  

The AR cousins can do just as much damage, distruction, and death as its prototype

[Lucidus]

(04-10-2023, 04:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote:
Car accidents kill far more people than guns each year in the US and in the world.

Should be ban automobiles also since they are the weapon of death? I lost a very good friend when I was 15, I was in the vehicle also when a maniac going over 100 MPH struck our vehicle while running a stop sign. Our car ended up over 100 yards away from initial impact.

I learned that day it is people who kill other people, they will find a weapon regardless of any law or ban.

Your first sentence offers a rather poor analogy since it compares accidents to purposeful actions.

As to your second point, vehicles and firearms are inanimate objects, lacking agency or intent. It requires a human being to purposely use either as an instrument of death. However, the two aren't on equal footing in terms of ease of use, concealability or overall access. Unstable individuals aren't driving vehicles into classrooms, banks, movie theaters, shopping malls, churches nightclubs and committing mass slaughter.

The two aren't comparable and any attempt to suggest they are feels disingenuous at best.

[GMDino]

(04-10-2023, 04:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Also, Fentanyl is against the law, yet people get access and die. I believed it is a banned substance, again more people die from it than gun violence.

Bad people do bad things, time to have shooters take the responsibility, not the weapon used to do it.

Not children.  

And drugs might...but not just fentanyl.

Of course there would be less if the police weren't selling.  But that's a different story.

And, of course, we can care about BOTH things (drugs/guns) and want to limit them BOTH as much as possible instead of being ok with one because it is slightly less..  At least most of us can.

[BigPapaKain]

(04-10-2023, 05:00 PM)pally Wrote: You are nitpicking.

AR-15 style refers to a gun in the same category and similar style as the AR-15.  It is not a political term...it is a reference term  

The AR cousins can do just as much damage, distruction, and death as its prototype

Except an overwhelming majority of gun violence is done with pistols, but you don't see anyone demonizing Glocks.

[HarleyDog]

(04-10-2023, 05:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: Not children.  

I doubt we know the true number of deaths of children from fentanyl. Miscarriages and child deaths from the mother dying with the baby in the womb, being cooked in a microwave,  accidental ingestion, etc. 

[HarleyDog]

(04-10-2023, 04:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: I was always curious as a non-hunter what one hunts with an AR-15.

My dad used a rifle.  Most people I know used a rifle.

AR-15 gets a lot of credit as a badass weapon, but it's not. It's actually pretty weak, which is why most people will not hunt with it. I would only like to own one because they are similar to the M-16 I carried in the Army except they're not fully automatic (and a few other differences). AR-15 is basically for self-defense, target practice, and some hunting. I also think it gets a bad rap because those who don't know any better hear semi-automatic and think Rambo-type shit. Really, it's not. It fires 1 bullet each time you pull the trigger. That's it. It's not a hold-and-spray type of weapon. 

[GMDino]

(04-10-2023, 05:16 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I doubt we know the true number of deaths of children from fentanyl. Miscarriages and child deaths from the mother dying with the baby in the womb, being cooked in a microwave,  accidental ingestion, etc. 

We know.  At least they do in Virginia.  So I'm assuming we could get the stats from every state.

https://www.vpm.org/news/2023-02-06/politifact-general-assembly-children-deaths-fentanyl-guns

Quote:PolitiFact VA: More Virginia children die from guns than fentanyl

VPM | By Warren Fiske
Published February 6, 2023 at 5:34 PM EST

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AP

Sen. Mark Obenshain (R-Harrisonburg) walks into a January meeting of the Senate Local Government Committee at Capitol Square.

State Sen. Mark Obenshain recently claimed otherwise in a floor speech.
Speaker: State Sen. Mark Obenshain
Statement: “You know how many children are dying across Virginia because of fentanyl poisoning? A heck of a lot more than are dying at the hands of guns.”
Date: Jan. 31
Setting: Floor speech
Firearms or fentanyl? Which causes more child deaths in Virginia? During a recent floor debate, State Sen. Mark Obenshain (R–Rockingham) erroneously claimed it is fentanyl.

Obenshain, an ardent defender of gun rights, spoke against a bill sponsored by Sen. Jennifer Boysko (D–Fairfax) that would require gun owners who live with minors to lock their firearms and ammunition in cabinets or containers. Violators could face a $250 fine.

He was miffed that Democrats were supporting the legislation after voicing concerns about another bill, sponsored by Sen. Bryce Reeves (R–Spotsylvania), that would classify fentanyl as a “weapon of terrorism” — and subject makers or distributors of the synthetic opioid to at least 20 years in prison.

“You know how many children are dying across Virginia because of fentanyl poisoning?” Obenshain asked. “A heck of a lot more than are dying at the hands of firearms.”

We asked Obenshain and his office four times for the source of his statistics and did not receive a reply by press time.

Records from the office of Virginia’s chief medical examiner refute Obenshain's claim, showing that almost seven times more minors died from guns than fentanyl from the start of 2017 through September 2022. During that span, 355 minors died from guns and 51 from fentanyl.

Of those total 51 fentanyl deaths, 40 have been listed as accidental overdoses. And of the 355 gun-related deaths of minors during the last six years, 198 were homicides and 132 were suicides.

State records show the number of minors dying from fentanyl and guns is rising. There were nine deaths from fentanyl in 2020, 13 in 2021, and 21 in the first nine months of last year.

There were 70 gun-related deaths in 2020, 77 in 2021 and 69 in the first three quarters of 2022.

Sixty-five percent of minors who died from fentanyl were 15 to 17 years old. Seventy-two percent who died from gunfire were in that age bracket.

It should be noted that when all Virginians are counted – minors and adults – more died from fentanyl than guns during the last six years. State records show 7,718 fentanyl deaths from the start of 2017 through September 2022, compared to 6,874 gun-related deaths.

Boysko’s SB 1139 to require gun owners who live with minors to lock up their guns passed the Democratic-led Senate on a mostly partisan vote. It might have a tougher time in the Republican-led House of Delegates.

Reeves’s SB 1188 to classify fentanyl as a “weapon of terrorism” has advanced to the Senate floor with a watered-down maximum penalty of 10 years in prison for those who “knowingly” manufacture or distribute the drug.

Our ruling

Obenshain said, “You know how many children are dying across Virginia because of fentanyl poisoning? A heck of a lot more than are dying at the hands of
guns.”

The senator was wrong. Records from the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner of Virginia show that from the start of 2017 through September 2022, 355 minors had gun-related deaths and 51 died from fentanyl.

We rate Obenshain’s statement False.

Sources
Mark Obenshain, state Senate floor speech, Jan. 31, 2023 (1:50:10 mark)
Legislative Information System, SB 1139, SB 1188, 2023 session
Emails from Rosie Hobron, Statewide Forensic Epidemiologist, Virginia Department of Health. Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, Feb. 2-6, 2023
Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, “Fatal Drug Overdose Quarterly Report,” 3rd quarter 2022

And, again, I can want to protect people from drugs AND guns.  It's not that hard.