Biden named the projected winner

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 12:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't know if you've heard, but there's supposedly a vaccine that is 90% effective and should be ready for distribution around January. I'd say we should give kudos to Trump but I know how many people can't give the man credit for ANYTHING, soooooooooooooo ....

Good for Trump, and good for Eisenhower for getting us the polio vaccine, I guess.  That wasn't so hard.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2020, 01:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Good for Trump, and good for Eisenhower for getting us the polio vaccine, I guess.  That wasn't so hard.

Maybe not for you, but for some? 

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 01:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Maybe not for you, but for some? 

Well, I'm a libertarian and I tend to give individuals more credit for creating things than the government.  I can give Trump credit for the covid vaccination, but I know it's a pretty hollow thing since he's the president and not someone who, you know, makes stuff.

[Au165]

(11-09-2020, 12:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't know if you've heard, but there's supposedly a vaccine that is 90% effective and should be ready for distribution around January. I'd say we should give kudos to Trump but I know how many people can't give the man credit for ANYTHING, soooooooooooooo ....

He deserves no credit as they took no money from "Warp Speed" and in fact had no interaction with the program at all in the development of this vaccine. 

[GMDino]

(11-09-2020, 12:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't know if you've heard, but there's supposedly a vaccine that is 90% effective and should be ready for distribution around January. I'd say we should give kudos to Trump but I know how many people can't give the man credit for ANYTHING, soooooooooooooo ....

I mean we could but Pfizer has said they didn't have anything to do with Trump's "Operation Warp Speed".

Can we just be happy without soothing Trump's ego?  I know how many people want to give the man credit for EVERYTHING, ssoooooooooooooo .... 

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2020, 01:04 PM)Au165 Wrote: He deserves no credit as they took no money from "Warp Speed" and in fact had no interaction with the program at all in the development of this vaccine. 

(11-09-2020, 01:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: I mean we could but Pfizer has said they didn't have anything to do with Trump's "Operation Warp Speed".

Can we just be happy without soothing Trump's ego?  I know how many people want to give the man credit for EVERYTHING, ssoooooooooooooo .... 

I only bring it up because people are giving Trump the blame for the 250,000+ COVID deaths and not to, you know, COVID. You want to argue the amount of deaths should be lower, go ahead. But, he's not to blame for ALL of them. 

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 01:04 PM)Au165 Wrote: He deserves no credit as they took no money from "Warp Speed" and in fact had no interaction with the program at all in the development of this vaccine. 

Careful, admitting that individuals are more effective at getting stuff done than the federal government is going to get you kicked out of the communist party. 

[Au165]

(11-09-2020, 01:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I only bring it up because people are giving Trump the blame for the 250,000+ COVID deaths and not to, you know, COVID. You want to argue the amount of deaths should be lower, go ahead. But, he's not to blame for ALL of them. 

A failed response was directly tied to him, therefore he shares responsibility for deaths (how much can be debated). The vaccine has nothing to do with him, therefore he gets no credit for it because it had absolutely nothing to do with him. 

These two things have nothing in common at all. 

[Belsnickel]

(11-09-2020, 01:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I only bring it up because people are giving Trump the blame for the 250,000+ COVID deaths and not to, you know, COVID. You want to argue the amount of deaths should be lower, go ahead. But, he's not to blame for ALL of them. 

That's because people like to think in absolutes. Unfortunately, confounders exist. The world doesn't exist in a state of perfect experimental design.

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 01:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I only bring it up because people are giving Trump the blame for the 250,000+ COVID deaths and not to, you know, COVID. You want to argue the amount of deaths should be lower, go ahead. But, he's not to blame for ALL of them. 

Trump is a politician by choice.  In the face of national crisis it's his job to get the hell out of the way and let people who were trained to do useful things handle it while he talks about unity and working together and other positive rhetoric.  Look at Bush after 9/11...an attack on American soil happens on his watch and he talks such a good game that (at least at first) his approval rating is up to a whopping 90% and people feel confident and unified.

Trump instead decides to use the crisis to stroke his own ego and lie and he's a one-term president because he refuses to actually learn how to effectively do his job.  The template for success had been laid out and he just did the opposite.  So ehh, I can see why people criticize his handling of covid, especially people who wanted him to not fail at being president and get a 2nd term.

[GMDino]

(11-09-2020, 01:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I only bring it up because people are giving Trump the blame for the 250,000+ COVID deaths and not to, you know, COVID. You want to argue the amount of deaths should be lower, go ahead. But, he's not to blame for ALL of them. 

All Trump is to blame for is his handling of the response.  How many additional people died because of it will be up to those who figure out such things and I believe it mostly guesswork.  Clearly he is not responsible for ALL the deaths.  

Nothing is absolute.  Had Trump acted Presidential and been a leader vs trying to cover up and hope it went away he'd get less blame and more credit even without a vaccine.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2020, 01:10 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I only bring it up because people are giving Trump the blame for the 250,000+ COVID deaths and not to, you know, COVID. You want to argue the amount of deaths should be lower, go ahead. But, he's not to blame for ALL of them. 

I agree he is not to blame for all of the deaths.

But how many deaths are an acceptable number to blame on Trump before he can be criticized for lying to American citizens and making the situation worse?

10k?

20K?

50K?

Where do you personally draw the line, Phil?  How many deaths would he have to be responsible for before you stop defending him?

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2020, 01:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: All Trump is to blame for is his handling of the response.  How many additional people died because of it will be up to those who figure out such things and I believe it mostly guesswork.  Clearly he is not responsible for ALL the deaths.  

Nothing is absolute.  Had Trump acted Presidential and been a leader vs trying to cover up and hope it went away he'd get less blame and more credit even without a vaccine.

This is, what, the 4th time you've said something I've agreed with? But, agreed.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2020, 04:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree he is not to blame for all of the deaths.

But how many deaths are an acceptable number to blame on Trump before he can be criticized for lying to American citizens and making the situation worse?

10k?

20K?

50K?

Where do you personally draw the line, Phil?  How many deaths would he have to be responsible for before you stop defending him?

I blame Trump for the things that he's done wrong. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't matter how many died because of his poor COVID response. Even if it was only 1, he would be to blame for the 1. 

[GMDino]

(11-09-2020, 05:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: This is, what, the 4th time you've said something I've agreed with? But, agreed.

[GMDino]

https://nypost.com/2020/11/09/vice-president-pence-to-reportedly-vacation-in-florida/

Quote:Vice President Mike Pence will vacation in Florida this week
By Emily Jacobs
November 9, 2020 | 2:22pm | Updated

Enlarge Image

Mike PenceGetty Images
MORE ON:
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Vice President Mike Pence is preparing for some much-needed rest and relaxation.


The vice president will travel Tuesday to Sanibel, Fla., and is scheduled to stay put until Saturday, according to flight logs from the Federal Aviation Administration.

News of the trip comes two days after Pence and President Trump lost their 2020 re-election effort to President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris.

While Biden and Harris have claimed victory, Trump has refused to concede the race, vowing to fight the election outcome in court and questioning its legitimacy.

Pence has not commented on their 2020 loss yet, and his representatives did not respond to The Post’s request for confirmation of the Florida vacation.

It is not clear if second lady Karen Pence will be joining the vice president, who has vacationed on the island off Florida’s Gulf Coast several times before.
While Pence will be soaking up the sun in a state he and Trump carried in their 2020 fight, Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani said he will be filing up to 10 lawsuits alleging election fraud.

Speaking to Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures,” the former NYC mayor argued, “At this point, it would be wrong for him to concede.”

Besides a single example alleged by the Trump campaign of voter fraud in Nevada, which would not have been enough to sway an entire election outcome if proven, the team has not provided evidence of widespread fraud.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-09-2020, 06:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://nypost.com/2020/11/09/vice-president-pence-to-reportedly-vacation-in-florida/

Is it just me or does anyone get a, "Captain White," (from Captain Scarlet, an old, British, Supermarionation show) vibe?

[NATI BENGALS]

(11-09-2020, 06:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://nypost.com/2020/11/09/vice-president-pence-to-reportedly-vacation-in-florida/

Trump surviving COVID is probably the best thing that happened to Democrat’s this year. With the voter turn out and how close the election was Pence at the top of the ticket would have brought a lot of Lincoln project type republicans back to the Republican side and this election probably would have gone the other way.

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2020, 07:44 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Trump surviving COVID is probably the best thing that happened to Democrat’s this year. With the voter turn out and how close the election was Pence at the top of the ticket would have brought a lot of Lincoln project type republicans back to the Republican side and this election probably would have gone the other way.

Democraps would have just had to cheat harder, that's all. 

[SunsetBengal]

Real Clear Politics has taken both AZ and PA off of the Biden win column. So, I guess Biden is no longer the President-elect..

Buckle up sports fans, looks like it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Edit: If you're looking for a link? Just google that shit.