Biden's Economic policies are a plus

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-13-2023, 09:15 PM)pally Wrote: birth rate is falling not rising

Isn't a massive contributor to global warming the human population?  So please explain to the class why a lower birthrate is a bad thing.  The logic pretzel should be interesting.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-13-2023, 07:44 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Gas was right around $3 a gallon in 2018 and 2019 before COVID hit, then after COVID the cost of gas was up all over the world not just in the USA.  You'll start to see prices coming down or become more affordable.  This is b/c the national wage growth is outpacing inflation by 1.2% according to the Bureau of labor statistics.  The effect may not be noticed immediately but it's on the horizon.  Below I posted a 33-yr database of US Gas prices provided by the US Dept of Energy. 

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epmr_pte_nus_dpg&f=m
gasbuddy.com

That must be national gas averages because I was paying 2.30-2.50 in 2018-2019,   I also don't live anywhere near cities.

I hope you are correct, because I have seen zero relief from any core bills I have and auto prices are still insane and lumber just went up a bit.

I will admit the auto price thing is actually helping me as I got a phenomenal lease deal in early 2020 and then bought out the lease for around 10k less then what it was booking at.  I also bought my wife's new car in 2020 right before prices went through the roof, so I have never been upside down on that vehicle.  It only has 10k miles on it now, so I am also in very good shape with that vehicle.

[GMDino]

(07-13-2023, 09:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Isn't a massive contributor to global warming the human population?  So please explain to the class why a lower birthrate is a bad thing.  The logic pretzel should be interesting.

In most of the world it is declining...it is not declining everywhere.  I'm not for forced birthing levels btw.  Just commenting on the population which is is still growing worldwide.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/crude-birth-rate

More to the point I think Pally meant in the US citizens have seen a decline in birth rates.  With the Boomers getting out of the job market there are fewer people to fill the jobs.  Which is why immigration is a good thing.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-14-2023, 09:57 AM)GMDino Wrote: In most of the world it is declining...it is not declining everywhere.  I'm not for forced birthing levels btw.  Just commenting on the population which is is still growing worldwide.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/crude-birth-rate

More to the point I think Pally meant in the US citizens have seen a decline in birth rates.  With the Boomers getting out of the job market there are fewer people to fill the jobs.  Which is why immigration is a good thing.

I don't think immigration is inherently a good or bad thing.  What I'm taking issue with is the assertion that it's necessary to fill certain types of jobs.  We have plenty of people in the US, if a certain field needs people then incentivize people to join said field.  Instead of focusing on ludicrous concepts like making working the drive through at a fast food place a job you can raise a family on use that energy on getting people into fields in which they can actually earn that money now.

[*Synric*]

(07-14-2023, 11:14 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think immigration is inherently a good or bad thing.  What I'm taking issue with is the assertion that it's necessary to fill certain types of jobs.  We have plenty of people in the US, if a certain field needs people then incentivize people to join said field.  Instead of focusing on ludicrous concepts like making working the drive through at a fast food place a job you can raise a family on use that energy on getting people into fields in which they can actually earn that money now.

How about education. 

Undocumented Immigrants can apply and be accepted to college which takes up a spot not just from Americans but foreign students on Student Visa's. While they can't receive Federal Student Loans there are states with State Loans specifically for illegal immigrants and they can also apply for grants and scholarships. 

[GMDino]

(07-14-2023, 11:14 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think immigration is inherently a good or bad thing.  What I'm taking issue with is the assertion that it's necessary to fill certain types of jobs.  We have plenty of people in the US, if a certain field needs people then incentivize people to join said field.  Instead of focusing on ludicrous concepts like making working the drive through at a fast food place a job you can raise a family on use that energy on getting people into fields in which they can actually earn that money now.

Someone else said on here once that if your business model involves paying your employees as little as possible in order to get by then you need a better business model.
The world needs drive thru workers too.  And burger flippers, garbage men, ditch diggers, crop harvesters, chicken pluckers, etc.

[Luvnit2]

(07-14-2023, 11:39 AM)Synric Wrote: How about education. 

Undocumented Immigrants can apply and be accepted to college which takes up a spot not just from Americans but foreign students on Student Visa's. While they can't receive Federal Student Loans there are states with State Loans specifically for illegal immigrants and they can also apply for grants and scholarships. 

It is no secret, liberals in this forum openly admit they support illegal immigration. Democratic politicians care more bout illegal immigrants than they do the homeless, middle income families and those living in poverty.

Democratic policy in places like SF, NYC, Chicago, LA, Portland, Seattle and many others have crime waves ignored and these cities are unsafe. Of course their catch and release or ignore crime without prosecution is a plan to be able TO APPEAR CRIMES IS NOT HAPPENING IN THESE CITIES.

Yes it is crazy and they think Americans are stupid. We see these cities for what they are and I feel sorry for a single woman riding a subway in NYC at night.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-14-2023, 11:39 AM)Synric Wrote: How about education. 

Undocumented Immigrants can apply and be accepted to college which takes up a spot not just from Americans but foreign students on Student Visa's. While they can't receive Federal Student Loans there are states with State Loans specifically for illegal immigrants and they can also apply for grants and scholarships. 

Illegal aliens should have access to nothing.  No housing, no healthcare, no jobs, no schooling, no drivers license, etc.  Strictly enforce that along with mass deportation and watch how quickly we no longer have an illegal immigration problem.

The truth is that our Gov't does not WANT to fix the problem.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-14-2023, 12:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is no secret, liberals in this forum openly admit they support illegal immigration. Democratic politicians care more bout illegal immigrants than they do the homeless, middle income families and those living in poverty.

Democratic policy in places like SF, NYC, Chicago, LA, Portland, Seattle and many others have crime waves ignored and these cities are unsafe. Of course their catch and release or ignore crime without prosecution is a plan to be able TO APPEAR CRIMES IS NOT HAPPENING IN THESE CITIES.

Yes it is crazy and they think Americans are stupid. We see these cities for what they are and I feel sorry for a single woman riding a subway in NYC at night.

I wonder if they would vote for low income housing to be built in their neighborhood?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-14-2023, 12:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: Someone else said on here once that if your business model involves paying your employees as little as possible in order to get by then you need a better business model.

As per the norm, you are misrepresenting what I actually said.  I'm not sure why you do this.  Not only is it dishonest, but it doesn't advance a conversation.  What I actually said was if a business relies on employing illegal immigrants that they pay less than mandated by law then you have a garbage business model.  A rather large difference between what you claimed I said and what I actually said, no?

Quote:The world needs drive thru workers too.  And burger flippers, garbage men, ditch diggers, crop harvesters, chicken pluckers, etc.

Probably not for very much longer.  Automation is likely to severely cut into those numbers in the relatively short future.  The real big one will be when they automate trucks and eliminate the need for drivers.  Much better to get ahead of this issue than try and pay the diminishing numbers of these jobs more money until they don't exist any longer.  A second industrial revolution effect on employment is rapidly coming and it's not going to be pretty for those that don't prepare.

[GMDino]

(07-14-2023, 12:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As per the norm, you are misrepresenting what I actually said.  I'm not sure why you do this.  Not only is it dishonest, but it doesn't advance a conversation.  What I actually said was if a business relies on employing illegal immigrants that they pay less than mandated by law then you have a garbage business model.  A rather large difference between what you claimed I said and what I actually said, no?



Probably not for very much longer.  Automation is likely to severely cut into those numbers in the relatively short future.  The real big one will be when they automate trucks and eliminate the need for drivers.  Much better to get ahead of this issue than try and pay the diminishing numbers of these jobs more money until they don't exist any longer.  A second industrial revolution effect on employment is rapidly coming and it's not going to be pretty for those that don't prepare.

I was simply responding to your saying that we shouldn't be allowing drive thru workers to be able to support a family when they should be doing other jobs that make more money not interpreting what you said.

I remember in the 80's an older lady (probably in her 40's when I was a teen) who worked drive thru.  Her husband had passed away and she had a child to raise.  Stella was not going to do the kind of job that involved more schooling just to make more money.  So instead she worked hard (and sometimes two jobs) in order to provide for her family.

Kinda set in my mind that not everyone will be able to do those "make more money jobs" so we should pay people for the jobs we need.  McD wasn't hurting for money...lol.  In fact I made a couple bucks over minimum wage back in the day because I was a reliable worker.

I certainly hope you are right that those industrial jobs, with the good wages are coming back.  The trend since the Regan 80's needs to be reversed sometime.  I just hope the union busting, profit over people mentality gets reversed too so we don't have the jobs but not the wages.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-14-2023, 12:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: I was simply responding to your saying that we shouldn't be allowing drive thru workers to be able to support a family when they should be doing other jobs that make more money not interpreting what you said.

Yeah, I didn't say that either.  

Quote:I remember in the 80's an older lady (probably in her 40's when I was a teen) who worked drive thru.  Her husband had passed away and she had a child to raise.  Stella was not going to do the kind of job that involved more schooling just to make more money.  So instead she worked hard (and sometimes two jobs) in order to provide for her family.

Yes.  One does what one must.

Quote:Kinda set in my mind that not everyone will be able to do those "make more money jobs" so we should pay people for the jobs we need.  McD wasn't hurting for money...lol.  In fact I made a couple bucks over minimum wage back in the day because I was a reliable worker.

I certainly hope you are right that those industrial jobs, with the good wages are coming back.  The trend since the Regan 80's needs to be reversed sometime.  I just hope the union busting, profit over people mentality gets reversed too so we don't have the jobs but not the wages.

There will always be a need for electricians, plumbers, AC repair people, automechanics, etc.  We, meaning society, did a lot of people a real disservice by making everyone feel like college was the next step after high school.  College isn't for everyone, and there's no shame at all in being a skilled worker.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-14-2023, 02:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, I didn't say that either.  



Yes.  One does what one must.


There will always be a need for electricians, plumbers, AC repair people, automechanics, etc.  We, meaning society, did a lot of people a real disservice by making everyone feel like college was the next step after high school.  College isn't for everyone, and there's no shame at all in being a skilled worker.

I wish these options were talked about more and more acceptable when I was in high school.  Late 80's/early 90's.  Everything was always college, college, college and I knew it wasn't for me and had no idea what to do.

I had a hell of a time in high school.  Made it out with a C/C-.  Sitting me in a classroom all day and then being told to do another 1-3 hours of non-active type work every night was putting me in a perfect situation to fail and felt like a form of literal torture.  I'm pushing 50 and I can still give my very athletic 15 and a half year old boy a run for his money in all things football and baseball.  I have tons of energy to this day.

I am very hands on.  Taught myself how to do construction, electrical, plumbing, I have gutted and remodeled 2 bathrooms, built a shed from scratch, landscaping, rebuilt car motors and most anything mechanical, I can fly airplanes, have replaced roofs, installed mutiple fences hand digging 3-4ft deep post holes, etc, etc.  And none of those things were work related.  I just did them for myself or for my house/family and I enjoy working like that.  Thank goodness I ended up in the military.  Was the best decision I ever made.

[Belsnickel]

(07-14-2023, 12:08 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: The truth is that our Gov't does not WANT to fix the problem.

That's because the employers don't want to fix the problem. They enjoy the cheap labor too much. They lobby the officials to make sure the resources don't go to doing the things that would help the problem.

[samhain]

(07-14-2023, 09:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's because the employers don't want to fix the problem. They enjoy the cheap labor too much. They lobby the officials to make sure the resources don't go to doing the things that would help the problem.

I feel like it's the downfall of the country, to be honest.  In the nation's best years, ie post WWII, any one could get a decent job.  It didn't take a college education.  It barely took a high school diploma.  Work in some factory, get a house, a wife that can stay at home or not, buy a car or two, pop out some kids, retire relatively comfortably.  Be a cop, a mailman, a fireman, whatever.  The equation was you work, you get paid, you have a pretty solid life. One of the most enviable existences on the planet.  Maybe even take a vacation, go to a movie or take the family out to eat once a week.

Now, all of that shit is really expensive and companies pay shit for retirement.  6 figures was once a standard of making good money.  Now it's barley enough to be middle class in most places.  

When people had money to afford distractions and niceties, you didn't have republicans running around calling everyone they see a baby eater.  You also didn't have "woke" culture shaming everyone into stupidity.  People were content with their lives, to a degree, and starting shit was less of a hobby.  

The rich got richer, by a lot.  The middle class and poor got poorer.  Now anyone who isn't rich just wants someone to blame everything on.  Conveniently, they have a whole other half of the country that hates them just as much.  

If people by and large got back to non-economic hell, I think the polarization would recede greatly.  

[Luvnit2]

There are emotions or lies and then facts. I don't see student loans listed, by I see inflation as a huge issue.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/americans-income-not-matching-inflation-transunion
In fact, 46% of consumers said their incomes did not keep up with the rate of inflation in the second quarter of 2023, TransUnion reported. And 38% said their finances were worse than planned by that point. This marks an increase of four percentage points from the previous quarter, TransUnion said.

"Inflation has consumers in a recession state of mind," TransUnion said in its report.

When asked if they ranked the following financial stressors as a top-three concern, this is how respondents answered.

Inflation: 79%
Recession: 53%
Housing prices: 45%
Interest rates: 41%
To address their financial concerns, many Americans said they would turn to credit. Nearly a third (32%) of consumers said they plan to apply for new or refinance existing credit in the coming year, TransUnion reported. That marked an increase of three percentage points from Q1 2023 and a six percentage point spike from Q4 2022.

[*pally*]

Even MTG was bragging on Joe's achievements

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I approve this message. <a href="https://t.co/f1q5giNM8j">pic.twitter.com/f1q5giNM8j</a></p>&mdash; Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1681424737384435713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 18, 2023</a></blockquote>

[Luvnit2]

(07-18-2023, 07:27 PM)pally Wrote: Even MTG was bragging on Joe's achievements

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I approve this message. <a href="https://t.co/f1q5giNM8j">pic.twitter.com/f1q5giNM8j</a></p>&mdash; Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1681424737384435713?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 18, 2023</a></blockquote>

I think it is great the Biden team shows again they are great at manipulating words and creating deep fake videos. The facts don't back up Biden did anything to help low and middle income Americans, he now is at 34% approval rate on the economy and diving lower.

Good luck selling the people who can't pay the rent any longer Biden and Democrats have their back. Please let Biden be the nominee in 2024!!!

[*pally*]

The video isn't fake...she said those things over the weekend at the Turning Point convention. She was trying to imply those things are negative...most Americans don't see it that way

[Luvnit2]

(07-18-2023, 08:05 PM)pally Wrote: The video isn't fake...she said those things over the weekend at the Turning Point convention.  She was trying to imply those things are negative...most Americans don't see it that way

Who will the people believe, Biden and they can't pay the rent. OR the GOP candidates for POTUS, Senate and Congress who will tell the the Biden economy stinks.
I learned a long time ago in marketing for my business, you can't market yourself out of a lie. The customers know if your service stinks, saying otherwise is a waste of marketing dollars. Fix the problem, then market it. The Biden economy problem is he is running out of time to fix it. He needs to eliminate inflation and actually gain back lost poor inflation the first 2.6 years.

22% inflation is where he is right now, if he runs more 3 to 4% inflation, he would be at 25 to 26%. That means wage growth needs to increase since January 2021 by 30% for low and middle income earners to stop their backward decline in spending and also be able to start save money again.

Good luck making that happen when you give Connecticut 17 million dollars to use towards a hiking trail. You can't make this stuff up hwo poor the Biden economic policy has been since 2021.