Bombs go off in Manchester.

[*Nately120*]

Welp, Trump is in office so if we don't start torturing and killing people's families I suppose we will find someone who has the balls to do it.

But semi-seriously, what's the desired plan here? We find this guy's family (immediate family? all extended?) and publicly torture and kill them to send a message? Wife? Kids? Parents? And how do we do this? Are we assuming watching American soldiers torture and kill the children of a dead man will stop people from wanting to kill us?

[Dill]

(05-23-2017, 07:03 PM)Vlad Wrote: Apparently crickets in American lib media as well since you didn't post any links....but thats because the ongoing attempt to delegitimize the election of Trump demands full time attention right now.

Anyway, good start but insufficient. Muslims who oppose Islamic terror need to be more visible and posses way more fervor that that. It's long over do. Why not conduct protests with the same enthusiasm that liberals do..except without the violence.
But they won't because they can't.

Wonder if Tiger feels the same way.

As I said in my post, British Muslims will be the first to condemn, followed by statements from Muslims around the world tomorrow. You can wait a day, can't you? 

Muslims have been protesting terrorism for years new. The simplest of google searches shows they will because they can. Only restricting one's news sources produces the illusion that there are no such protests.

"London Ashura Remembrance Sees Muslims Protest Against Terrorism And ISIS"
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/london-ashura-islam_uk_57fe7ccce4b0e982146bbae9
"Muslim Americans launch “ISIS Sucks” billboard campaign: So-called Islamic State “does not represent Islam”'
http://www.salon.com/2016/08/05/muslim-americans-launch-isis-sucks-billboard-campaign-so-called-islamic-state-does-not-represent-islam/
"Muslims in Nashville rally for peace, protest ISIS attacks"
http://www.wsmv.com/story/32399852/muslims-in-nashville-rally-for-peace-protest-isis-attacks

I could go on, but this is enough to support my claim that it's really a special news consumer who sees no Muslim protests of ISIL terrorism--or never enough.

Also, Muslims bomb and kill ISIL everyday. Isn't that kind of a protest?

[Dill]

(05-23-2017, 07:03 PM)Vlad Wrote: In lieu of this attack we have the usual liberal bullshit...what takes priority is "make sure no one hurts the feelings of Muslims".
...although I'm pleased to see that this kind of ignorance seems to reveal itself less and less for each Islamic act of terror that occurs. Seems many liberals now concede to the fact that "Islamic" and "terror" can go together. 

A couple of real beauts on Twitter below.
Racism? Muslim isn't even a race you dweebs.

Which liberals "concede" that Islamic and terror go together who didn't before?

What you call "not hurting the feeling of Muslims" may be concern for violent racist/religious backlash--like the killing of those seven Sikhs in Wisconsin. They look like Muslims, you know.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-wisconsin-shooting-idUSBRE8740FP20120805.

So do many Hindus. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-kansas-india-idUSKBN1630LZ
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2002/09/14/AR2006031501323.html.

  Alka Patel is at work, selling gas and cigarettes and chewing gum and lottery tickets. At her feet, ... her teenaged son toils at his homework.
...this exact spot last Oct. 4 ... her husband, Vasudev Patel, was shot dead. His killer, Mark Anthony Stroman, left the money behind.
His motive for the crime -- less than a month after the terrorist attacks -- wasn't robbery, but retribution. Stroman said he wanted "to retaliate on local Arab Americans, or whatever you want to call them."
Patel, 49, was an immigrant from India. His murder was one of more than 80 hate crimes -- against Arabs, Muslims and others whose appearance made them targets after the terrorist attacks -- that authorities have prosecuted in the past year.
At least a dozen murders are being investigated as hate crimes by authorities. Families of those victims say they share the grief of the families of those who perished at the World Trade Center and Pentagon and who were aboard the jetliners that crashed that day. But amid the commemorations and observances of the first anniversary of Sept. 11, they feel forgotten.
Many of them will gather today for a ceremony in Mesa, Ariz., where another Indian immigrant, Balbir Singh Sodhi, was shot to death last Sept. 15 as he planted flowers outside his Chevron station. His alleged killer -- Frank Rogue -- had raged at a bar of wanting to kill "ragheads" responsible for the terrorist attacks, police said.

Many Muslim's are non-white, you know. And while the haters often have difficulty recognizing religious differences, they don't have difficulty recognizing non-whites.

[ballsofsteel]

(05-23-2017, 06:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do agree that "If we act severely, it will serve as a recruiting tool" point of view. But your suggestion of killing their families serves no purpose. First off these are not rational people and secondly they'd kill their families themselves.

I do not think you are full of shit and I fully empathize with your feelings of anger. No rational person wants to see these types of act occur and that is why both sides get so passionate in thinking their way is the answer. I have said there is going to come a time when we sacrifice liberties for securities, but obviously it is going to take something of a large scale from someone fresh off the boat before a percentage of Americans will even entertain the idea of sacrificing liberties citizen or not.

Hello. I'll tell you the reason I'm suggesting such a radical approach. Some while ago I seen or read something about a young Muslim man with a dynamite vest on, kissing his mother good bye as he left to do his dirty deed. Not sure if this was a documentary or what. This always stuck out in my head. Its pretty much psychological, Isis is getting in these kids heads and convincing them that blowing themselves up is a good thing. Right now they think that blowing themselves up is bad but the reward is 72 Virgins and being remembered as a martyr.
Knowing that their beloved mother and family could be killed as the result of his actions, might make him think twice about going down that road.
Nothing else seems to be working. Must be the price we pay for being the worlds policemen.

[Vas Deferens]

(05-23-2017, 09:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I've been, and am, extremely critical of Israeli policy in many instances.  That said, if you think Israel is the cause of islamic extremism you're drastically oversimplifying this issue.

If you read my statement as 'Israel is the cause of Islamic extremism', we have an insurmountable cognitive disconnect. Check the context, "free bes [sic] and hand outs to non citizens".

Never mind everyone. I see now that it is anti-Semitic to question sending BILLIONS of taxpayers dollars to one of the strongest economies in the world. Shut up and keep drinking from that leaded hose boy.

Baffling.

[Vas Deferens]

(05-23-2017, 05:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Wouldn't his family die as martyrs and then all go to whatever version of paradise they believe in too?  How about we try convincing people that there isn't some magic pleasure dome waiting for them in the sky and see if that doesn't make people appreciate life on earth a bit more.

Ah, but it's wrong of me to act like all religions are insane when we're just looking to mock one.  My bad.


But on the topic of bombings, I'm a bit pessimistic that we kill 90 or so of them with "The Mother of All Bombs" and they manage to take 19 people down with a single homemade device. It just doesn't bode well.

Gotta send a GD message that jebus > moohamerd. Come on Nate. You know damn well we could monetize that shit too. Only just and moral abortions are those dealt out by the US war machine. OOHRAH!

[Au165]

(05-24-2017, 07:09 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Hello. I'll tell you the reason I'm suggesting such a radical approach. Some while ago I seen or read something about a young Muslim man with a dynamite vest on, kissing his mother good bye as he left to do his dirty deed. Not sure if this was a documentary or what. This always stuck out in my head. Its pretty much psychological, Isis is getting in these kids heads and convincing them that blowing themselves up is a good thing. Right now they think that blowing themselves up is bad but the reward is 72 Virgins and being remembered as a martyr.
Knowing that their beloved mother and family could be killed as the result of his actions, might make him think twice about going down that road.
Nothing else seems to be working. Must be the price we pay for being the worlds policemen.

This is actually insanity. It is against our laws and international law to do something like this. Once you cross into that kind of thinking you are forfeiting everything that made this country great. Not to mention you will only prove everything they say about western civilization right further fueling more hatred and violence. People need to accept that this isn't a situation we can bomb and kill our way out of. I don't know what the answer is, but you can't kill an ideology with bullets and bombs.

[Vlad]

(05-24-2017, 07:22 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: If you read my statement as 'Israel is the cause of Islamic extremism', we have an insurmountable cognitive disconnect.   Check the context, "free bes [sic] and hand outs to non citizens".

Never mind everyone.  I see now that it is anti-Semitic to question sending BILLIONS of taxpayers dollars to one of the strongest economies in the world.  Shut up and keep drinking from that leaded hose boy.

Baffling.

We send BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars throughout the Mideast.
The 3 billion that goes to Israel is used for defense spending.

Seems justified considering all the countries surrounding it who call for Israels extermination.
Perhaps even liberal extremist Israel hater Obama understood that. Couldn't he with the strike of a pen have cut aid to Israel?
I don't know.

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/spends-billion-foreign/

[Vlad]

Noted scholar and liberal Alan Dershowitz dispels concocted notion popular amongst liberals that Islamic terrorism is the byproduct of poverty.

The article was boring for me because I've known this narrative be false for some time, but the part were Dershowitz said  "Its not Islam, it's the abuse of Islam"  I found interesting.

Is Dershowitz implying, to use the analogy "its not the gun that kills, its the abuse of it that does" (when in the wrong hands)In other words....the gun, like Islam is inherently dangerous by its very nature or existence.
I can agree with that.


https://newsline.com/dershowitz-blaming-terrorism-on-poverty-total-nonsense/

[GMDino]

(05-24-2017, 10:57 AM)Vlad Wrote: Noted scholar and liberal Alan Dershowitz dispels concocted notion popular amongst liberals that Islamic terrorism is the byproduct of poverty.

The article was boring for me because I've known this narrative be false for some time, but the part were Dershowitz said  "Its not Islam, it's the abuse of Islam"  I found interesting.

Is Dershowitz implying, to use the analogy "its not the gun that kills, its the abuse of it that does" (when in the wrong hands)In other words....the gun, like Islam is inherently dangerous by its very nature or existence.
I can agree with that.


https://newsline.com/dershowitz-blaming-terrorism-on-poverty-total-nonsense/

Careful. You're gonna run afoul of the folks who think "they're comin' fer our gunz" pro-2A crowd around here.  

ALthough you COULD have read that as people are using religion to justify their own beliefs.  Could have.    

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-24-2017, 07:22 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: If you read my statement as 'Israel is the cause of Islamic extremism', we have an insurmountable cognitive disconnect.   Check the context, "free bes [sic] and hand outs to non citizens".

Never mind everyone.  I see now that it is anti-Semitic to question sending BILLIONS of taxpayers dollars to one of the strongest economies in the world.  Shut up and keep drinking from that leaded hose boy.

Baffling.

You directly said cutting off funding to Israel would end some of the violence immediately.  I pointed out the logical problems with that statement.  Israel could vanish into thin air tomorrow and the level of violence in that part of the world would be completely unaffected at best.  At worst it would intensify as various powers rush to fill the vacuum.  You'll have to actually explain a bit how my statement; 1.  Implied that you said Israel was the sole cause of of islamic extremism and 2. how I claimed that your statement was anti-Semitic.  

I did neither.

[Millhouse]

Reporting they are going after a network that supplied the bomb.

Also I saw where the 'evil loser' made a trip to Libya a month or so ago, which is a hotbed for terrorist activity since the vacuum left there after Kudafi was killed off. And is his homeland, as obviously he never considered the land he was born in was.

Should be noted that Libya was on Trumps temporary ban list, which was also on Obama's watch list.

[Belsnickel]

(05-24-2017, 10:57 AM)Vlad Wrote: The article was boring for me because I've known this narrative be false for some time, but the part were Dershowitz said  "Its not Islam, it's the abuse of Islam"  I found interesting.

Is Dershowitz implying, to use the analogy "its not the gun that kills, its the abuse of it that does" (when in the wrong hands)In other words....the gun, like Islam is inherently dangerous by its very nature or existence.
I can agree with that.

All ideologies are inherently dangerous by their very nature or existence using that viewpoint. The abuse of any ideology by extremists/radicals is a dangerous thing.

But I see your use of the firearm analogy to be a poor one. Many firearms used to kill another human being are designed to kill another human being. Is that use improper? It can be illegal, it can be immoral, but is it improper if that is what it is designed for? Is it misuse? That is a philosophical debate if I ever heard one.

[Au165]

(05-24-2017, 12:10 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Reporting they are going after a network that supplied the bomb.

Also I saw where the 'evil loser' made a trip to Libya a month or so ago, which is a hotbed for terrorist activity since the vacuum left there after Kudafi was killed off. And is his homeland, as obviously he never considered the land he was born in was.

Should be noted that Libya was on Trumps temporary ban list, which was also on Obama's watch list.

Also should note the guy was Britain born, not foreign.

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2017, 12:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: Also should note the guy was Britain born, not foreign.

That had recently traveled to one of the countries on the travel band. What does his place of birth have to do with the travel ban?

[Millhouse]

(05-24-2017, 12:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: Also should note the guy was Britain born, not foreign.

I did in an earlier post.

[Vlad]

(05-24-2017, 12:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: But I see your use of the firearm analogy to be a poor one. Many firearms used to kill another human being are designed to kill another human being.

Exactly, that's why its a decent analogy.

Yes a gun is designed to kill. Dershowitz could be implying that Islam through its teachings is designed to kill...to eradicate all other religions by murder and violence...what could he mean by "abusing Islam"?

[Belsnickel]

(05-24-2017, 01:45 PM)Vlad Wrote: Exactly, that's why its a decent analogy.

Yes a gun is designed to kill. Dershowitz could be implying that Islam through its teachings is designed to eradicate all other religions by murder and violence...what could he mean by "abusing Islam"?

If someone were implying that about Islam, then they wouldn't be a very good scholar of, well, anything.

[Au165]

(05-24-2017, 01:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That had recently traveled to one of the countries on the travel band. What does his place of birth have to do with the travel ban?

Well you see the context of my comment was pointing out that it being on the ban list really had nothing to do with anything. It was being alluded to that him going to a country on the banned list somehow is conformation that a ban on travel from that country helps in some way.  You see a ban on keeping someone from coming from somewhere only works if they aren't already in the place they wish to travel to. So let's say for instance Britain had Trump's ban. The guy could have simply not gone to Libya and still did the attack...because he was already there.

You don't need to go somewhere to learn how to make a bomb, that information is readily available on the internet. If traveling there would have defeated his plan, I am sure he wouldn't have gone.

[Millhouse]

(05-24-2017, 02:15 PM)Au165 Wrote: Well you see the context of my comment was pointing out that it being on the ban list really had nothing to do with anything. It was being alluded to that him going to a country on the banned list somehow is conformation that a ban on travel from that country helps in some way.  You see a ban on keeping someone from coming from somewhere only works if they aren't already in the place they wish to travel to. So let's say for instance Britain had Trump's ban. The guy could have simply not gone to Libya and still did the attack...because he was already there.

You don't need to go somewhere to learn how to make a bomb, that information is readily available on the internet. If traveling there would have defeated his plan, I am sure he wouldn't have gone.

British investigators believe he was part of a network, or at least became a bomber of one. Travelling to Libya a month ago, which is now a hot bed of terrorist camps, doesnt look like coincidence. A ban on Libya, or at the least extra vetting is perfectly fine by me. And that bomb he used looked to be something made by someone that knew what they were doing, not a simple internet bomb. 

Of course this is still early in the investigation as more will come out in the next few days and weeks. But that is what has been reported so far by the Brits.