Bombs mailed to Hillary, Obama

[*bfine32*]

(10-24-2018, 07:29 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Are we supposed to trust the results of a "corrupt" FBI investigation into this?

As a q anon trumpet conspiracy theorist. I wont believe anything unless presented to us in coded signals from dear leader

Who knew you were such a staunch supporter of the FBI after the Kavanaugh investigation. Perhaps I misread you. 

[GMDino]

Jebus I'd love to believe he's finally pulled his head out of his ass and learned something...but I know there will be another rally and this all have been window dressing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/24/suspicious-devices-what-donald-trumps-message-maga-rally/1754177002/

Quote:President Donald Trump on Wednesday implored politicians to stop questioning the moral character of their opponents, using a rally in Wisconsin to call for a more civil politics hours after a series of suspicious packages were sent to Democrats and media outlets. 



"No nation can succeed that tolerates violence," Trump said, breaking script from his usually highly partisan rallies to discuss the packages. "The language of moral condemnation and destructive routine, these are arguments and disagreements that have to stop. Those engaged in the political arena must stop treating political opponents as being morally defective."


Trump put some of the blame for the current political climate at the media.


 "The media also has a responsibility to set a civil tone and to stop the endless hostility and constant negative and oftentimes false attacks and stories," Trump told the audience. "They've got to stop."


The president's remarks interrupted the usual, natural flow to every rally. 


Trump regularly criticizes the "fake news" media, the "obstructionist" Democrats and stays silent as supporters chant "lock her up" in reference to Hillary Clinton. 


On Wednesday, hours before a Trump rally in Wisconsin, several of the president's favorite verbal punching bags became targets of very real threats.


A series of suspicious devices, which included pipe bombs, were sent to prominent Democrats and across the country and to CNN's New York office.  Former President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton received threats. Packages were also sent to Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, liberal philanthropist George Soros and California Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters.


All have drawn the ire of Trump and each has made their way into his speeches and Twitter feed over the years. 


Amid the violence, which New York officials called an act of terror, what will the president's message be Wednesday evening in Wisconsin? 

"I hope that this is a wake-up call and changes the rhetoric," said Jacob Neiheisel, associate professor of political science at the University at Buffalo. "But I don't know if it will." 


Neiheisel said while it's likely the person behind the attempted attacks was suffering from some type of mental illness, it's not hard to link the divisions in the country, hear the president's attacks on these individuals and take it as a call to action. 


"It doesn't take much for someone to hear this rhetoric and take it too far," he said. "This is a wake-up call for everyone. You don't know who will hear your words and it as an invitation." 

President Donald Trump vows that "acts or threats of political violence have no place in the United States." He was speaking after multiple reports of suspicious devices being sent to Democrats, media companies and prominent individuals. (Oct. 24) AP
The president's rhetoric has been inflammatory since he announced his candidacy for president. 


Trump's career as a conservative politician took off when he demanded Obama's birth certificate and helped spread a conspiracy that the president was not born in America. He's continued the attacks, blaming the country's issues on the former president, including that Obama "founded" ISIS. 


CNN has also been a frequent target of Trump’s “fake news” barbs. Last year the president retweeted a video of himself tackling a person with a CNN logo on their face. A “CNN sucks” chant also broke out at a Monday campaign rally.
[/url]

Quote:
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump




#FraudNewsCNN #FNN
9:21 AM - Jul 2, 2017

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"Lock her up" chants have been a constant at nearly every rally at the mention of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who ran against Trump in the 2016 election. 


Trump, before signing opioid abuse legislation during a ceremony at the White House, pledged to "get to the bottom" of who sent the packages and why. He also had a message of unity. 


"I just want to tell you that, in these times, we have to unify," Trump said. "We have to come together and send one very clear, strong, unmistakable message that acts or threats of political violence of any kind have no place in the United States of America."


But some said the toned-down rhetoric wouldn't last. 


"People have for years wondered whether the president would change or tone down his rhetoric as time went on but we've seen that it isn't going to happen," said Gregory Shufeldt, a professor of political science at Butler University. "We're two years into the  Trump presidency and that shows us nothing is going to change." 


Shufeldt said if Trump doesn't target Democrats or the media Wednesday, it would only be a temporary shift. He said this incident could replicate the response to the congressional baseball game in last summer where a lone attacker targeted Republican lawmakers. There were brief calls for unity that were drowned out with time. 


"This tour has been about rallying his base and the president knows the topics to hit on," Shufeldt said. "The cynic in me says yes, maybe there's a brief push for civility, but that will quickly come back to tribalism."


Some of the president's critics were quick to connect Wednesday's planned attacks with the president's rhetoric and called for a change. 


Arizona GOP Sen. Jeff Flake said the president should stop labeling the media as the "enemy" or verbally castigating political opponents.


More: Suspicious packages: Donald Trump vows to 'get to the bottom' of political threats sent to Obama, Clinton, CNN
More: CNN office evacuates while live on air after 'explosive' package intercepted at New York office
More: Clinton, Trump family members join politicians in praising Secret Service


"Words matter," Flake told CNN. "If he were to take a more civil tone, it would help … We all need to watch the rhetoric that we use. People hear them and then follow it ...Those of us in office need to keep that in mind. The stakes are too high right now."


He said he hoped the president would heed his own advice and unify the country. 


CNN chief Jeff Zucker also criticized the White House for a “total and complete lack of understanding” of the seriousness of its attacks on the media, as his network’s New York bureau was evacuated for five hours Wednesday following the discovery of an explosive device sent there.


Democratic Rep. Bennie Thompson also called on the president to simmer the political divisions. 



"To be clear, these targeted attacks were acts of terrorism.  We must work to counter these forces of terror and hate, no matter the source," the Mississippi Congressman said. "Given the partisan nature of these attacks, it is time for the President to end his incessant political attacks and condoning of violence, including on the press."

Pretty words.  Even the RIGHT thing to say.  But he has done nothing to make me believe that he believes it OR that he will change his own way of speaking about others.

[treee]

Looks like some of Trumps "2nd amendment guys" tried to take care of it like he asked.

[*bfine32*]

(10-24-2018, 09:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Jebus I'd love to believe he's finally pulled his head out of his ass and learned something...but I know there will be another rally and this all have been window dressing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/24/suspicious-devices-what-donald-trumps-message-maga-rally/1754177002/



Pretty words.  Even the RIGHT thing to say.  But he has done nothing to make me believe that he believes it OR that he will change his own way of speaking about others.

Well, I guess you can't please all the people all the time. 

[SunsetBengal]

(10-24-2018, 08:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Except for all the communist governments.

And I don’t know if it’s authoritarianism, but things like Canada saying it is an offense to not address a person by their chosen pronoun surely isn’t anti-authoritarian.

It would be much simpler, if they all wore those stick on tags, you know, the ones that read "Hello, my name is...".  Then we wouldn't have to guess as to how they would like to be addressed. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-24-2018, 09:57 PM)treee Wrote: Looks like some of Trumps "2nd amendment guys" tried to take care of it like he asked.

No doubt:

The 2nd Amendment: The Right to Bear Pipe Bombs. 

[GMDino]

(10-24-2018, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, I guess you can't please all the people all the time. 

True.

Again, I think he said the right thing.

But much like the abusive husband who says "she asked for it" and "he'll change" I'll need to see it before I believe it.

Because you can fool  a lot of people a lot of the time.

[hollodero]

(10-24-2018, 10:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No doubt:

The 2nd Amendment: The Right to Bear Pipe Bombs. 

OK... I mean, you're right, obviously. But for me there's no denying that Trump implying to second amendment guys to go all second amendment on Hillary didn't really help change the climate for the better. In a sense, I feel the remark is justified.

[*bfine32*]

(10-24-2018, 10:21 PM)hollodero Wrote: OK... I mean, you're right, obviously. But for me there's no denying that Trump implying to second amendment guys to go all second amendment on Hillary didn't really help change the climate for the better. In a sense, I feel the remark is justified.

I suppose if we immediately jump to the conclusion that the person(s) behind these mailings in a "Trump 2nd Amendment guy"; then you may have a very, very, very small point. Outside of that I consider it a ridiculous comment in both content and reference; however, I do appreciate you feel it is justified. 

[treee]

(10-24-2018, 10:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose if we immediately jump to the conclusion that the person(s) behind these mailings in a "Trump 2nd Amendment guy"; then you may have a very, very, very small point. Outside of that I consider it a ridiculous comment in both content and reference; however, I do appreciate you feel it is justified. 

Did trump type that?

[hollodero]

(10-24-2018, 10:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose if we immediately jump to the conclusion that the person(s) behind these mailings in a "Trump 2nd Amendment guy"; then you may have a very, very, very small point.

So really small :) and that's all I was going for. To be precise, I do not know who sent those bombs and why. There's just a climate that makes things like that more likely, and Trump and his ways to address things are contributing to that climate. As tiny as you might regard it, it is still a point I cannot see as ridiculous, and I'm usually easily persuaded.

I wonder if you wouldn't even a little agree to that. That Trump's ways don't exactly help alleviating the situation and the overall hateful climate.

[Dill]

(10-24-2018, 08:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Except for all the communist governments.

And I don’t know if it’s authoritarianism, but things like Canada saying it is an offense to not address a person by their chosen pronoun surely isn’t anti-authoritarian.

No "communist governments" in the US, last time I checked.  Maybe not in Canada either, though I have not been there for a while.

You might like Lakoff. Typical social scientist/linguist type.  Finds disagreements "interesting" and analyzes them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Politics_(book)

[*bfine32*]

(10-24-2018, 10:43 PM)hollodero Wrote: So really small :) and that's all I was going for. To be precise, I do not know who sent those bombs and why. There's just a climate that makes things like that more likely, and Trump and his ways to address things are contributing to that climate. As tiny as you might regard it, it is still a point I cannot see as ridiculous, and I'm usually easily persuaded.

I wonder if you wouldn't even a little agree to that. That Trump's ways don't exactly help alleviating the situation and the overall hateful climate.

Of course Trump's ways do not help; nor do the reactions. 

We'll just disagree it you think a response of "Trump's 2nd Amendment guys" has any merit in a thread about someone sending pipebombs in the mail. Should we blame those in favor of the postal service? 

[GMDino]

I'm seen this image twice now.  

Retweeted on Twitter from "Q", and then by a good friend on FB.  Who also said this:

Quote:I condemn the person or persons who attacked members of the Democratic party today with bombs but if it were against republicans, millions would be donated to that person's GoFundMe page.

Because I guess he doesn't want to let an opportunity to continue the vitriol.

Politics is the only thing he and I disagree on...and he is WAY to the right.

[hollodero]

(10-24-2018, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course Trump's ways do not help; nor do the reactions. 

As often, I agree with the principle here, but not with the sense of equality. Trump started a spiral. I will not discharge those that contribute to the spiral of any guilt, left or right, of course not. But who started the spiral (and keeps accelerating it) still holds more weight and hence is a more intense point to me. Other contributions, less so.

(10-24-2018, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We'll just disagree it you think a response of "Trump's 2nd Amendment guys" has any merit in a thread about someone sending pipebombs in the mail. Should we blame those in favor of the postal service? 

I think it has some merit. Reasonably speaking. It's not a moot point, although you can easily paint it as too intense (and if you use a broad brush, I might even agree, I just don't think using a broad brush applies). The truth within it, to me, is what I stated above. The truth also is that we don't know anything specific about the bomber. That doesn't mean there's no reason to argue what makes such events more likely. And that just can't be a "both sides contribute equally" argument. Not with Trump.

[Dill]

Great interview with Sarah Huckabee Sanders on Fox and Friends this morning.

Amazing that so many liberals are rushing to blame the president for the extreme rhetoric of current politics and the bombing attempts when no one knows all the facts yet.  As Sanders points out, the only person ultimately responsible is the bomber.

Plus there are a lot of liberals who have advocated violence too, like Maxine Waters and that guy who shot the Congressmen. The press is not without blame either, when 90% of the press covereage of Trump is negative.

Booker and Holder and Madonna have incited violence. Both sides do it.

Trump said ugly things about Cruz and Rubio, but now he is working with them. So he is a model for how Americans should be coming together to accomplish the American dream.  He is showing leadership.

Trump wants all people to come together and get along.  Wise words.

Dana Loesch applauded Trump's forceful condemnation of violent rhetoric at his rally last night. Also people need to stop making proclamations about who did this and why.  News organizations should not be speculating about Trump's responsibility, as did president of CNN. Let's stop associating the actions of crazy people with political figures just because we don't like them.

Sanders reminds us that from day one of his term President Trump has condemned violence in all its forms.

Follow up reporting on politicians and journalists critical of Trump's rhetoric, though he has clearly condemned the bombings and promised retribution.

Maybe if the media would take responsibility for its role in the current situation we could turn the corner. People should begin taking inventory of their own behavior before pointing fingers at others, says one commentator, reminding us Hillary said   "We can start to be civil after we take back the House".  He concludes we will never solve this problem by looking to the people who profit from it. This followed by approving discussion of Trump's latest tweet calling out the press.  Comparison to Bill Clinton's "Sistah Soldjah" moment when he called out the "thuggish" values of some rap music.  Amazing leader in time need, that Trump.

Dow dropped 600 points this morning.

[Dill]

(10-24-2018, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course Trump's ways do not help; nor do the reactions. 

We'll just disagree it you think a response of "Trump's 2nd Amendment guys" has any merit in a thread about someone sending pipebombs in the mail. Should we blame those in favor of the postal service? 

Sure, the head of the party and president of the US presiding over chants of  "lock her up" on the same day as multiple pipe bomb attempts does not help, nor does praise for a Congressman who body slammed a reporter.  

But criticisms of Trump incitement don't do anyone any good. 

Might as well blame the postal service as Trump.

[GMDino]

(10-25-2018, 10:12 AM)Dill Wrote: Sure, the head of the party and president of the US presiding over chants of  "lock her up" on the same day as multiple pipe bomb attempts does not help, nor does praise for a Congressman who body slammed a reporter.  

But criticisms of Trump incitement don't do anyone any good. 

Might as well blame the postal service as Trump.

Or, while asking for civility, continuing to blame "the media" while taking no blame himself.

That's why I said I need to see actions this time...not platitudes.

I heard part of his latest rally this morning and it is obvious that someone TOLD him to tone it down and not go out yelling...because he kept referencing how softly he was talking. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-rally-wisconsin-today-maga-leah-vukmir-governor-scott-walker-live-stream-2018-10-24/

Quote:"My highest duty, as you know, as president is to keep America safe," he said in Mosinee, Wisconsin, adding that the "federal government is conducting an aggressive investigation." He condemned threats of political violence as "an attack on our democracy itself," and called for "all sides to come together in peace and harmony."


He then argued that politicians should not make personalized attacks against each other, even though Mr. Trump himself has often insulted other politicians and the Democratic Party. He has called the Democrats the "party of crime" and "unhinged mobs." Mr. Trump said that "the language of moral condemnation and destructive routine" has to stop, and people should solve disagreements "peacefully at the ballot box."

Mr. Trump also took the opportunity to criticize media coverage of politics.


"The media also has a responsibility to set a civil tone and to stop the endless hostility and constant negative and oftentimes false attacks and stories," he said, on the same day that a suspicious package was sent to CNN. He also later said that the media "can't take a joke."



Mr. Trump then offered a toned-down version of his usual pitch against Democrats. "We're all behaving very well. And hopefully we can keep it that way," he said of the people at the rally. He later noted that he wasn't yelling, and that he was "trying to be nice."

[*bfine32*]

(10-25-2018, 10:12 AM)Dill Wrote: Sure, the head of the party and president of the US presiding over chants of  "lock her up" on the same day as multiple pipe bomb attempts does not help, nor does praise for a Congressman who body slammed a reporter.  

But criticisms of Trump incitement don't do anyone any good. 

Might as well blame the postal service as Trump.

Actually the Postal Service point was a correlation to the 2nd Amendment remark. I'm surprised you missed that.

Nothing wrong with criticizing Trump but to do it in a manner with calls for causing disturbances, bombing the White House, and kicking folks is not constructive in my book; perhaps in yours. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-25-2018, 10:21 AM)GMDino Wrote: Or, while asking for civility, continuing to blame "the media" while taking no blame himself.

That's why I said I need to see actions this time...not platitudes.

I heard part of his latest rally this morning and it is obvious that someone TOLD him to tone it down and not go out yelling...because he kept referencing how softly he was talking. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-rally-wisconsin-today-maga-leah-vukmir-governor-scott-walker-live-stream-2018-10-24/

So you condemn him for nothing more than words; yet, refuse to applaud him for nothing more than words? Seems fair.