Cop kills man after he informs officer that he is legally carrying a concealed weapon

[GMDino]

(07-09-2016, 11:45 AM)Stewy Wrote: I got pulled over in November.  The reason was BS (they said my license plate bracket/frame was illegal, which according to Texas and Arkansas law(I looked it up), it was legal).  They were profiling my truck (Texas truck in Arkansas, guess they were looking for drug runners).  Before the cop got to my window I had my ID and insurance in my hand and waiting for him.  Hell I had it in my hand before he got out of his car.  I didn't need to ask why he pulled me over.  He pulled me over(strangely there were 3 cops that pulled me over)!  He had a reason.  He was going to want to see my ID and Insurance, regardless of his reason.  Pull the ID and insurance out.  Have it ready.  Respect the law and the officers who risk their lives just to do their jobs.

All in all it was a strange experience.

I told this story in another thread about a police shooting:

My wife and I were on our way home from a night out at some friends and I ran a yellow light at 1:30am.

Two state cops, in one car, pulled us over.  I rolled down the window and sat with my hands on the wheel until he asked the usual "Do you know why..." blah, blah.  Like I'm going to say "Because you saw the dead body in the trunk?"? 

I told him the papers were in the glove compartment and asked if I could get them.  

Meanwhile his partner (who at the time we didn't even know was there) went around the passenger side and was shining his light into the backseat and at my wife.

I was stone cold sober.  Hadn't had a drink all night.  

He gave us a warning because the light about the licence plate was burned out.  

We pulled away laughing our asses off because they thought they caught two kids out speeding along in the middle of the night and caught Ozzie and Harriet on their way home after dinner and some tea and coffee!

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2016, 11:45 AM)Stewy Wrote: I got pulled over in November.  The reason was BS (they said my license plate bracket/frame was illegal, which according to Texas and Arkansas law(I looked it up), it was legal).  They were profiling my truck (Texas truck in Arkansas, guess they were looking for drug runners).  Before the cop got to my window I had my ID and insurance in my hand and waiting for him.  Hell I had it in my hand before he got out of his car.  I didn't need to ask why he pulled me over.  He pulled me over(strangely there were 3 cops that pulled me over)!  He had a reason.  He was going to want to see my ID and Insurance, regardless of his reason.  Pull the ID and insurance out.  Have it ready.  Respect the law and the officers who risk their lives just to do their jobs.

All in all it was a strange experience.

I'm not sure going into your glove compartment as a LEO is approaching is the best idea. Better to just keep your hands in plain sight and wait for instruction.

[Belsnickel]

(07-09-2016, 11:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure going into your glove compartment as a LEO is approaching is the best idea. Better to just keep your hands in plain sight and wait for instruction.

Yeah, that movement can make some cops nervous.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-09-2016, 09:57 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: As you can see I posted 2-3 examples as well. Remember LEAs are not obligated to report. And there is NO data base that tracks it. And when and if they do. They do not track by race. 


they are more likely and are killed at a higher rate. 
Uh DERP......yeah 6X more whites and by populace 2.34 whites are killed where as 7.13 blacks killed. 
Lol....did you know more white people have sickle cell trait. (You know because there are more white people)even though it's a disease that affect more blacks lol. 


Not my world view it's my reality. As I've lived it, seen it, experienced it. 

I posted an actual link, not referenced FBI stats that appear pulled from your rear.  That same studies I found consistent with the data I've seen widely reported.  Like I said, the WIDELY quoted 3.5X more likely to be shot means more whites are shot.  

You claim the data is imperfect, yet that doesn't stop you from claiming more blacks are shot, and making other claims that are not consistent with studies I posted, and saying data from WaPO - easily the best and most comprehensive study out there  - is wrong.

Yes, it is your world view.  You buy into the narrative because "you've lived it, seen it, experienced".  But you're a smart guy, and it must be very upsetting to learn the facts do not back up what you've been told and what you believe.

[Stewy]

(07-09-2016, 11:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure going into your glove compartment as a LEO is approaching is the best idea. Better to just keep your hands in plain sight and wait for instruction.

Both were in my wallet, which was in the door or easily accessible in my pocket, and like i said I had them before he even got out of the car.

[Benton]

(07-09-2016, 07:17 PM)Stewy Wrote: Both were in my wallet, which was in the door or easily accessible in my pocket, and like i said I had them before he even got out of the car.

I've done ride along as part of work, and back in high school. Normally the guys I've ridden with, if they see you going through your stuff before they get out of their car, they'll ask you to step out of yours with your hands up.

[Bmoreblitz]

(07-09-2016, 04:57 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I posted an actual link, not referenced FBI stats that appear pulled from your rear.  That same studies I found consistent with the data I've seen widely reported.  Like I said, the WIDELY quoted 3.5X more likely to be shot means more whites are shot.  

You show once again that you are just Holding your breath and stomping your feet. You posted a link as did I. Like I said blacks are shot 3.5X more than whites per populace. Not "more likely"....ARE
We've established pages ago more whites are shot.
More whites have sickle cell. But it's doesn't mean they are "more likely"to have it. Studies? You referenced one STUDY. And only link was a chart that showed nothing, nada, zilch, zero.
There are only three that I've known of. Washington post...Guardian and Gun violence archives. All have different data. And many cases are missing.
There is no single, universally accepted data source for police killings. The Federal government acknowledges that its agencies’ various counts are incomplete. But not a smart man like you...hmmmm
WaPo and Gun violence archived try to fill in the gaps, using media and other reports. Along with web of amateurs, volunteers and journalists.

(07-09-2016, 04:57 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You claim the data is imperfect, yet that doesn't stop you from claiming more blacks are shot, and making other claims that are not consistent with studies I posted, and saying data from WaPO - easily the best and most comprehensive study out there  - is wrong.

My statements are as yours....based on studies I've posted. Lol the Washington post is as left wing bias as they come. And most of their articles contradict themselves. Just depends on the year written.  

(07-09-2016, 04:57 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Yes, it is your world view.  You buy into the narrative because "you've lived it, seen it, experienced".  But you're a smart guy, and it must be very upsetting to learn the facts do not back up what you've been told and what you believe.

Thanks...for the compliment. I'm glad you've been raised in a bubble and led to believe everything is peaches and cream in the world.
This "smart" guy doesn't go off of what I've been told. I go off of what AGAIN by what I've lived, seen and experienced throughout my life from a child through adult hood. I'm pretty sure...no positive I've lived in more parts of the country and world than you have my friend.














https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-police-are-killing-people-as-often-as-they-were-before-ferguson/

[JustWinBaby]

I wish I had found this pages ago instead of wasting my time arguing with people who refuse to acknowledge the real facts.

Some may remember this guy - he's a Harvard prof that co-authored one of the studies on names as a signal in the interview process that was discussed a while ago. Hard to argue with ANYTHING that he says, even if it will contradict the world views of some here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/upshot/police-killings-of-blacks-what-the-data-says.html?_r=0

One of the key points, as he discusses, is looking at shooting as a % of population is the WRONG way of looking at it. I completely agree that if you consider socioeconomic factors, there's little if any evidence of racial bias in cop shootings. I get the same conclusion looking at the % of violent crimes (60% for whites, which is in line with the % of whites killed by police).

[JustWinBaby]

(07-09-2016, 10:07 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: You show once again that you are just Holding your breath and stomping your feet. You posted a link as did I. Like I said blacks are shot 3.5X more than whites per populace. Not "more likely"....ARE
We've established pages ago more whites are shot.
More whites have sickle cell. But it's doesn't mean they are "more likely"to have it. Studies? You referenced one STUDY. And only link was a chart that showed nothing, nada, zilch, zero.
There are only three that I've known of. Washington post...Guardian and Gun violence archives. All have different data. And many cases are missing.
There is no single, universally accepted data source for police killings. The Federal government acknowledges that its agencies’ various counts are incomplete. But not a smart man like you...hmmmm
WaPo and Gun violence archived try to fill in the gaps, using media and other reports. Along with web of amateurs, volunteers and journalists.

My statements are as yours....based on studies I've posted. Lol the Washington post is as left wing bias as they come. And most of their articles contradict themselves. Just depends on the year written.  
Thanks...for the compliment. I'm glad you've been raised in a bubble and led to believe everything is peaches and cream in the world.

This "smart" guy doesn't go off of what I've been told. I go off of what AGAIN by what I've lived, seen and experienced throughout my life from a child through adult hood. I'm pretty sure...no positive I've lived in more parts of the country and world than you have my friend.

In other words, to the extent that you've lived in your own bubble, you REJECT data that disagrees with your own preconceived notions (which we typically refer to as bias).
I'm not living in a bubble, I'm looking at the data objectively.  You clearly are not capable of doing that as you tacitly acknowledge you are blinded by you own experiences and will reject with how you perceived those experiences.
LOL - you're positive you lived more places than me?  That may be true, although you can't possibly know how many places I've lived and worked.  Another conclusion of yours based on only part of the data.  You love rejecting some conclusions for incomplete data, while cherry-picking that very same data to declare your own set of "facts".

[BFritz21]

All the cops around here know me, but this actually got me thinking and freaking out that if I ever get stopped while downtown or in Covington, a cop starts asking questions, I go to start typing, they think I'm going for a gun or something, and shoot me.

I usually have someone with me, so it shouldn't be a problem, but strange things happen.

[Bmoreblitz]

(07-09-2016, 10:52 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You REJECT data that disagrees with your own preconceived notions (which we typically refer to as bias).

What "data" or fact have I REJECTED, as you implied?

(07-09-2016, 10:52 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I'm not living in a bubble, I'm looking at the data objectively.  You clearly are not capable of doing that as you tacitly acknowledge you are blinded by you own experiences and will reject with how you perceived those experiences.

Ok your point of view is different from mines or others. You've referenced what you've read on the internet as fact for your theory. And I've shared references and experience. Who's right? Who's wrong? The point that there's a big discrepancy in data and opinion, shows that there is an underlying issue. And it's not make believe as you infer.

(07-09-2016, 10:52 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: LOL - you're positive you lived more places than me?  That may be true, although you can't possibly know how many places I've lived and worked.  Another conclusion of yours based on only part of the data.  You love rejecting some conclusions for incomplete data, while cherry-picking that very same data to declare your own set of "facts".

I'm pretty positive I have lived and worked more places than you have. I've moved every two to three years for about thirty years. But you know....I don't even know what the disagreement is anymore. Maybe you can refresh my memory.
-There's no racism?
-No racist LEOs?
-All deaths involving LEOs are the result of lack of training? Misunderstanding? And race never plays a role?
-racism is all in people's heads brought on by media?
Did I get it all?

LEOs have a very dangerous and difficult job. They have the authority to use deadly force if needed. Death sometimes are a result. Most are justified. Many understand and don't take issue with it. What upsetting is when its unjustified.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-10-2016, 12:24 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Ok your point of view is different from mines or others. 

No, my point of view is based on real data that you reject because it does not conform to what you desperately
want and need to believe - abundantly clear -  or we aren't having this argument. The ENTIRE point of data is that opinion is myopic. We aren't having this argument if you're being objective - you disagree based on your perception of your experiences, which clearly from all angles are extremely limited.

We can argue until the cows come home - there is no data supporting what you are pushing in this thread. And you know that, and it upsets you, and so you accuse others of living in a bubble and stomping their feet because you aren't stupid but can't refute basic facts.

You pride yourself on not listening to what you are told.  Uneducated people base their knowledge solely on experience because they are incapable of learning.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-10-2016, 12:24 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: I'm pretty positive I have lived and worked more places than you have. 

So now it's "pretty positive" rather than " I know".  How many?  Is it 5?  10?  20? I hope it's at least 20.  And regardless, how will we prove that neither you nor I are full of shit?

Well, of course, I have W2's and 1099's to back where I've been and worked. But that's probably a racist standard of proof.

Or perhaps you would like to further walk back your BS. Like pretty much everything else you've said and claimed in this thread.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-09-2016, 11:31 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: All the cops around here know me, but this actually got me thinking and freaking out that if I ever get stopped while downtown or in Covington, a cop starts asking questions, I go to start typing, they think I'm going for a gun or something, and shoot me.

I usually have someone with me, so it shouldn't be a problem, but strange things happen.

Good lord.


First off, why are your hands not firmly planted on the steering wheel at 10 and 2 until directed otherwise?

Secondly, why does the badge with a gun NOT have your undivided attention?

Not only have I done that every time I've been pulled over, but I turn on my emergencies and take the keys out and throw them on the dashboard.

Maybe I haven't been shot because I'm white, or MAYBE it's because I'm not a dumbass.

[Bmoreblitz]

(07-10-2016, 03:28 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: No, my point of view is based on real data that you reject because it does not conform to what you desperately
want and need to believe or we aren't having this argument.

I just asked again to please explain your pov a couple of post up. Also please explain what makes your "DATA REAL" and what I've stated false or proven false. Instead of repeating the same GIGO.

(07-10-2016, 03:28 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: your experiences, which clearly from all angles are extremely limited.

Lol ho so? Please explain to us less educated minds.

(07-10-2016, 03:28 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: We can argue until the cows come home - there is no data supporting what you are pushing in this thread.  

I've posted info several times which communicates my position Unarmed blacks are killed more.

What data have you provided that shows otherwise. Or shows there is no such thing as racism?

(07-10-2016, 03:28 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You pride yourself on not listening to what you are told.  Uneducated people base their knowledge solely on experience because they are incapable of learning.

Yes Sur boss....I's is sorry I not do what I was told.

Why are you making up stuff? Lol how is my knowledge only from experience?

(07-10-2016, 03:28 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: So now it's "pretty positive" rather than " I know".  How many?  Is it 5?  10?  20? I hope it's at least 20.  And regardless, how will we prove that neither you nor I are full of shit? Well, of course, I have W2's and 1099's to back where I've been and worked.  But that's probably a racist standard of proof.

I can prove it with one little piece of paper.

Lol.....I have what's called a DD 214.




So you just went on a Tupac rant and didn't answer or address anything or state any of your thoughts. Please share

Again what is your argument?

[Bengalzona]

In 33 years, I've had about 12 interactions with law enforcement officers, mostly driving violations, accidents or warnings. And for the most part, those interactions have been no problem. I was taught to be respectful to police and to follow what they say. I still believe that is good advice for anyone.

I have had one bad incident, however.

Last summer, I was driving home with my son in the car about a block from my house. I saw the police car parked on our street and I remember thinking, "That's good. People run through this four-way stop all of the time." I came to the stop sign, stopped, and then went through. I know I stopped, because as I mentioned before, I get pissed at all of the people that don't see the sign and run through at 35 mph. I pulled into my garage and.... what do you know, there is the policeman following me up my drive. As I'm getting my son out of his child seat, the officer parks, walks into my garage, and starts questioning me about why I didn't stop at the stop sign. I told him I thought I had. He started getting real agitated, stepped up into my face and asked if I was calling him a liar several times. I looked down at my son and told him to go on into the house and didn't say anything to the policeman. He went off on some sort of tirade about people not coming to a complete stop. I didn't respond. I just stood there and memorized his name and badge number while he rattled off his rhetorical questions.

He checked my license and decided to let me off with a warning.

Yeah, I got the warning alright... that we have a f***ed up cop in the neighborhood.

My neighbor, Joe, and his wife are both cops on the same force. I decided against mentioning anything to them about it. I probably would have been telling them something they already knew.

[*jason*]

(07-10-2016, 07:32 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: In 33 years, I've had about 12 interactions with law enforcement officers, mostly driving violations, accidents or warnings. And for the most part, those interactions have been no problem. I was taught to be respectful to police and to follow what they say. I still believe that is good advice for anyone.

I have had one bad incident, however.

Last summer, I was driving home with my son in the car about a block from my house. I saw the police car parked on our street and I remember thinking, "That's good. People run through this four-way stop all of the time." I came to the stop sign, stopped, and then went through. I know I stopped, because as I mentioned before, I get pissed at all of the people that don't see the sign and run through at 35 mph. I pulled into my garage and.... what do you know, there is the policeman following me up my drive. As I'm getting my son out of his child seat, the officer parks, walks into my garage, and starts questioning me about why I didn't stop at the stop sign. I told him I thought I had. He started getting real agitated, stepped up into my face and asked if I was calling him a liar several times. I looked down at my son and told him to go on into the house and didn't say anything to the policeman. He went off on some sort of tirade about people not coming to a complete stop. I didn't respond. I just stood there and memorized his name and badge number while he rattled off his rhetorical questions.

He checked my license and decided to let me off with a warning.

Yeah, I got the warning alright... that we have a f***ed up cop in the neighborhood.

My neighbor, Joe, and his wife are both cops on the same force. I decided against mentioning anything to them about it. I probably would have been telling them something they already knew.

When I first got my concealed carry permit, I had a cop harass me about it when I didn't have a gun on me. I rarely carry one (in fact I did it much more often when it was illegal), but this guy wasn't taking no for an answer. I sat in the back of his car while another cop showed up and they searched my ride. I didn't even get an apology.

That was the worst experience that I've ever had with them. I've even been arrested a few times in my younger days, and generally had no complaints about the way I was treated. Like zona said, talking to them the right way goes a long way.

[*bfine32*]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/10/officer-who-shot-minnesota-man-reacted-to-gun-not-race-lawyer-says.html

Does it matter to anyone that the LEO is "brown"?

[Belsnickel]

(07-11-2016, 01:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/10/officer-who-shot-minnesota-man-reacted-to-gun-not-race-lawyer-says.html

Does it matter to anyone that the LEO is "brown"?

It doesn't really for the racism angle. Black people can be racist towards other black people, so a "brown" person being racist towards a black is not out of the realm of imagination. I've not been one jumping on the race bandwagon for this shooting but the race of the cop doesn't negate any potential racism.

[BmorePat87]

(07-11-2016, 01:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/07/10/officer-who-shot-minnesota-man-reacted-to-gun-not-race-lawyer-says.html

Does it matter to anyone that the LEO is "brown"?

No, latinos can be racist against black people too. Or more delicately put, Latinos can hold prejudices, whether consciously or subconsciously, about black people and other groups.