Coronavirus

[Dill]

(05-20-2020, 08:08 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: You may want to re-read the memo from the WH physician. He states the "the potential benefits outweighed the relative risks."

Benefits to whom?

[Dill]

(05-20-2020, 07:31 AM)Benton Wrote: So if HCQ puts an unnecessary strain on on organ or system, then it could weaken a normally healthy organ or system if a person gets corona'ed. But, honestly, I don't know if HCQ has any of those concerns. I don't know that much about the drug. Outside of the fact that there's no evidence it does anything for corona and is needed for treatment of malaria.

I think that's why all these anti-Trump doctors say it needs to be studied in clinical trials, EVEN IF IT HAS ALREADY PROVED OF SOME BENEFIT IN TREATMENT OF SARS.

I am not a doctor but I have seen a lot of them on tv, so I conclude that medical oversight is especially critical in people who already have hypertension, diabetes, asthma and similar existing conditions.

Some Joe out there administering it to himself on the recommendations of Hannity and Laura Ingraham and Trump is unlikely to be checking his own vital signs etc.

Providing drug access to several million Fox viewers would indeed affect existing supply, though it would provide a kind of non-clinical test of the drugs effectiveness. What do they have to lose?

[HarleyDog]

(05-17-2020, 11:32 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: How has the poliovirus adapted to the vaccine? Still around, but in drastically reduced numbers so much so that now some people fear the vaccine more than polio.

Here is something of interest released today pointing to what I was trying to say. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chinas-new-outbreak-shows-signs-the-virus-could-be-changing/ar-BB14leel?li=BBnb7Kz

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-20-2020, 08:08 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: You may want to re-read the memo from the WH physician. He states the "the potential benefits outweighed the relative risks."

HOLY SHIT!

Thanks for the correction.

That guy is completely full of shit. I’m embarrassed by the lack of integrity as a service member, officer, and healthcare provider.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-20-2020, 08:18 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: In case anyone is curious about hydrochloroquine and how things are going: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT04370782

I have a tendency to favor data and science, which apparently means I just dislike things Trump says and does because it's Trump, so this is an interesting thing to keep an eye on for the clinical trials of the treatment.

I'm also fairly certain this will be locked down for anyone lacking a subscription to the journal, but here it is: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0883944120303907

"A systematic review on the efficacy and safety of chloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19"

That’s what we call evidence based medicine. It’s why we don’t give antibiotics for viral infections because the data shows they don’t work.

[GMDino]

one thing to look at is Fox and Friends invited Trump on in 2014 to bash Obama for golfing when there were *2* cases of Ebola in the U.S. while Trump as president attending a birthday party at Mar-a-Lago as coronavirus spiraled out of control in March goes unmentioned. pic.twitter.com/N6EnpoXY56

— andrew kaczynski? (@KFILE) May 20, 2020

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2020, 03:17 AM)Benton Wrote: If he'd said he's taking insulin ... Which could potentially cause a run on insulin and increase the costs for diabetics who would die without it... Would that make more sense? We don't typically see malaria as a problem because when was the last time someone in your neighborhood got malaria? But for those who may need the drug, it's a big deal for it's costs to suddenly skyrocket or for the supply to dry up.

Plus, if it does nothing for covid, then people are potentially spreading it because they think they're immune.

Amazing how quickly you went from ""'side effects to we're going to use it all up". Perhaps there's another reason that you're missing that folks are in an uproar.

But I see you have included "whats" and "ifs". What if we discover the use of non-covid safe masks potentially spreading it. Are you going to be upset that folks suggested using masks? 

It's OK, you can honestly say why many are in an uproar. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2020, 04:26 AM)Dill Wrote: Should be added that COVID 19 seems to some stress internal organs greatly.

That means that someone who had no ill effects from HCQ when healthy, like someone taking it for arthritis, might suffer organ failure if taking this "cure" with a 103 fever and clogged up lungs.

That would make many "irritable."

As I said: They really should require this drug to be prescribed by a doctor instead of folks getting it at Walmart and eating it like candy because Trump.

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2020, 03:33 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: HOLY SHIT!

Thanks for the correction.

That guy is completely full of shit. I’m embarrassed by the lack of integrity as a service member, officer, and healthcare provider.

It's amazing how you've got it all figured out. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2020, 01:38 AM)hollodero Wrote: To me, it is about setting an awful example regarding voodoo self-medication.

In a sense, Trump saying I take vitamin D to be safe from corona would be similarly worthy of critizism.


--- A president recommending a drug that doctors and medical experts explicitely do not recommend. How does that not sound bad, in any case or for any president.

Did he say taking it keeps us safe"? 

Of course there are 0 doctors or medical experts saying the potential rewards could outweigh the risks. 

With every post you guys are proving more amd more the reason for the outrage. 

[Benton]

(05-20-2020, 06:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Amazing how quickly you went from ""'side effects to we're going to use it all up". Perhaps there's another reason that you're missing that folks are in an uproar.

But I see you have included "whats" and "ifs". What if we discover the use of non-covid safe masks potentially spreading it. Are you going to be upset that folks suggested using masks? 

It's OK, you can honestly say why many are in an uproar. 

Jeez.

Some of us have reasons why taking hcq could be bad. You deflected with 'people are just doing it to be mean to trump, look if he said take vitamin d...' which, of course, he didnt. Which was where the side effects thing came up as I thought it's ridiculous comparing an otc vitamin to a prescription drug.

I'm not missing anything. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2020, 06:33 PM)Benton Wrote: Jeez.

Some of us have reasons why taking hcq could be bad. You deflected with 'people are just doing it to be mean to trump, look if he said take vitamin d...' which, of course, he didnt. Which was where the side effects thing came up as I thought it's ridiculous comparing an otc vitamin to a prescription drug.

I'm not missing anything. 

The only thing you're missing is the point. 

I used Vitamin D to illustrate how some folk's react to Trump suggesting folks perhaps try something, not to compare HCQ to Vitamin D. So perhaps now you see the true ridiculous aspect. I do appreciate you acknowledging the only way to get HCQ is having a healthcare provider prescribe it.

What percentage of drugs (OTC or otherwise) do you think  have 0 side effects? Hell, I showed you the side effects of vitamin D. But suddenly, good-hearted Americans are worried about possible side effects. Ask yourself why and then you will begin to "not miss anything"

I have no plans to take the drug and I really doubt many do; simply because a government official with 0 medical experience says he's heard good things and he takes it. IF someone is curious they can talk to thier healthcare provider about the benefits versus risks. The provider would most likely tell the person to log into Bengals Message Board PnR forum for all the facts. 

[GMDino]

(05-19-2020, 09:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure why it is. 

If Trump where to come out and say I'm taking Vitamin D because I've heard good things. There's no proof but what could it hurt...The reaction would be exactly the same. 

"Great we're gonna run out of Vitamin D. Stupid POTUS!!"Of course I could be misrepresenting.

Folks that use Trump as their doctor have a lot more problems than HCQ. 

On a positive note I heard a real DR talking on the radio yesterday and he said we are close to a blood test that can provide results in about 20 minutes. He absolutely hate the test (nose swap) we use now. He says this is possible because of lifting restrictions like he's never seen. He also said by  the underrepresented advances that have been made in this research he expects (just his "gut") they will have a vaccine by JAN 21.

The dude seemed to have no political bias and he was on NFL Radio talking to PK and Jim Miller.

These are the things we should be talking about: The virus and good folks talking about working toward a fix; unfortunately, it's not the way we're built in here. Breech is trying.   

(05-20-2020, 06:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Amazing how quickly you went from ""'side effects to we're going to use it all up". Perhaps there's another reason that you're missing that folks are in an uproar.

But I see you have included "whats" and "ifs". What if we discover the use of non-covid safe masks potentially spreading it. Are you going to be upset that folks suggested using masks? 

It's OK, you can honestly say why many are in an uproar. 

(05-20-2020, 06:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: They really should require this drug to be prescribed by a doctor instead of folks getting it at Walmart and eating it like candy because Trump.

(05-20-2020, 06:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's amazing how you've got it all figured out. 

(05-20-2020, 06:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did he say taking it keeps us safe"? 

Of course there are 0 doctors or medical experts saying the potential rewards could outweigh the risks. 

With every post you guys are proving more amd more the reason for the outrage. 

"outrage"

[Benton]

(05-20-2020, 07:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The only thing you're missing is the point. 

I used Vitamin D to illustrate how some folk's react to Trump suggesting folks perhaps try something, not to compare HCQ to Vitamin D. So perhaps now you see the true ridiculous aspect. I do appreciate you acknowledging the only way to get HCQ is having a healthcare provider prescribe it.

What percentage of drugs (OTC or otherwise) do you think  have 0 side effects? Hell, I showed you the side effects of vitamin D. But suddenly, good-hearted Americans are worried about possible side effects. Ask yourself why and then you will begin to "not miss anything"

I have no plans to take the drug and I really doubt many do; simply because a government official with 0 medical experience says he's heard good things and he takes it. IF someone is curious they can talk to thier healthcare provider about the benefits versus risks. The provider would most likely tell the person to log into Bengals Message Board PnR forum for all the facts. 

1- agreed, your deflection was ridiculous.

2- vitamins aren't drugs. That's the point. You compared a prescribed drug to a dietary supplement in trying to justify disregarding people's concern for trump advocating hcq use.

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2020, 08:22 PM)Benton Wrote: 1- agreed, your deflection was ridiculous.

2- vitamins aren't drugs. That's the point. You compared a prescribed drug to a dietary supplement in trying to justify disregarding people's concern for trump advocating hcq use.

I've told you once you missed the point, trying to explain it again will be equally fruitless:

Your "point":
It's gone from side effects
to
we'll run out
to
vitamins aren't a drug

Yet my point has remained unchanged: Folks are in an uproar over it because who is advocating lt. I cannot help if you cannot see that .

Here's the thing for all the "it's worse because it's a prescription drug" folks:

It would be more dangerous if he were promoting something you could get without a prescription. I've heard folks suggest Trump suggested use of household cleaners as a personal remedy; now that's some dangerous shit. Him advocating a drug that you can only obtain through the guidance of a healtcare provider; is nothing, unless your motive for going against it; is other than personal safety. 

[GMDino]

Folks you are trying to discuss facts with a poster who claimed Trump never said windmills cause cancer because he threw a "some say" in front of it.

FTR Trump says whatever comes to his small mind whenever it comes to his small mind.  The reason he "just asked" of we could inject disinfectants into the lungs is because he heard for the first time, right then, that disinfectants work on the virus.  Never mind that they were talking about on surfaces.  He heard it and decided to "spitball" as if he was in a boardroom "just asking" if steak with his name on it would sell.

He's not smart, doesn't listen and talk out his rear half the time.

And when he does the people with the heads right deep up inside of there will be listening for what he "meant" and "explaining" how everyone ELSE is wrong about it.

[Benton]

(05-20-2020, 08:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've told you once you missed the point, trying to explain it again will be equally fruitless:

Your "point":
It's gone from side effects
to
we'll run out
to
vitamins aren't a drug

Yet my point has remained unchanged: Folks are in an uproar over it because who is advocating lt. I cannot help if you cannot see that .

Here's the thing for all the "it's worse because it's a prescription drug" folks:

It would be more dangerous if he were promoting something you could get without a prescription. I've heard folks suggest Trump suggested use of household cleaners as a personal remedy; now that's some dangerous shit. Him advocating a drug that you can only obtain through the guidance of a healtcare provider; is nothing, unless your motive for going against it; is other than personal safety. 

And my point is equally unchanged: it's got nothing to do with the messenger, it's the possible danger of the message. Ive tried multiple ways to explain that... And you're still stuck on people not supporting the messenger.

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2020, 08:51 PM)Benton Wrote: And my point is equally unchanged: it's got nothing to do with the messenger, it's the possible danger of the message. Ive tried multiple ways to explain that... And you're still stuck on people not supporting the messenger.

Where's the danger? It requires a prescription from a medical care professional. Nothing wrong with consulting with your PCM.

You roll with "because of danger"; I'll roll with "because of messenger" for the uproar. Only Dino knows who's right. 

[GMDino]

(05-20-2020, 09:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Where's the danger? It requires a prescription from a medical care professional. Nothing wrong with consulting with your PCM.

You roll with "because of danger"; I'll roll with "because of messenger" for the uproar. Only Dino knows who's right. 

Well at least got one thing right. 

All seriousness aside you refuse to accept any answer other than your own defense of Trump...so just like Trump everyone else has to wrong for you to be right.

Makes total sense.

[Benton]

(05-20-2020, 09:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Where's the danger? It requires a prescription from a medical care professional. Nothing wrong with consulting with your PCM.

You roll with "because of danger"; I'll roll with "because of messenger" for the uproar. Only Dino knows who's right. 

The danger is in the previous posts. Shortages for those who need it, potential spread, etc. Do you even read the posts or is deflection that big of a kneejerk?