Cuomo issues crackdown on LGBT conversion therapy

[fredtoast]

(02-07-2016, 03:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:   this topic of gay/straight conversion is only tricky because we somehow dismiss that it's not a mental health issue, due to ye fact that it's acceptable.    If we change it to any other mental health issue dealing with sexuality we don't think this way. 

Actually it is acceptible and we do treat it the same.


Do you consider people with foor fetishes as being mentally ill and needing to be "cured"?  Or do you see it as "acceptable"?

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-07-2016, 02:37 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If an adult wants it, allow it. It's garbage but it's their right to pay someone for that garbage.

Yep.
Until we also crack down on people who buy healing crystals and magnetic wristbands to help with arthritis....stupid to crack down on adults paying for something stupid. 

[StLucieBengal]

(02-07-2016, 04:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually it is acceptible and we do treat it the same.


Do you consider people with foor fetishes as being mentally ill and needing to be "cured"?  Or do you see it as "acceptable"?

It's certainly weird and creepy.   And definetly something that should stay personal business and out of the public.

What people do in their bedrooms is their business. No need to publicize it in the public.

[Vlad]

(02-07-2016, 04:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Yep.
Until we also crack down on people who buy healing crystals and magnetic wristbands to help with arthritis....stupid to crack down on adults paying for something stupid. 

True analogy because LGBT and arthritis are both afflictions.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-08-2016, 12:36 AM)Vlad Wrote: True analogy because LGBT and arthritis are both afflictions.

It wasn't an analogy of the issues but of grown consenting adults being able to do whatever they want to do. 

[*bfine32*]

I have no idea how anyone can celebrate this move.

[fredtoast]

(02-08-2016, 12:47 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I have no idea how anyone can celebrate this move.

Unable to even comprehend to possible argument from the other side?

how interesting.  It is as if your ability to see both sides of an issue has been diminished by only being exposed to the thoughts of people who think exactly the same way as you.

Perhaps you should expand your sources of information.

[*bfine32*]

(02-08-2016, 10:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Unable to even comprehend to possible argument from the other side?

how interesting.  It is as if your ability to see both sides of an issue has been diminished by only being exposed to the thoughts of people who think exactly the same way as you.

Perhaps you should expand your sources of information.

You mean the side that thinksthe state and not the parent should determine what is best for the child; is that the "other side" you are refering to?

It really has nothing to do with my thoughts on homosexuality. I would feel the same way if the state refused medical coverage for any treatment that does not put the child's health in jeopardy. What's next? The child is not schizophrenic.

Damn me and my "one-sidedness".

[GMDino]

(02-08-2016, 12:47 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I have no idea how anyone can celebrate this move.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective of people who are forced into this kind of "therapy" it throws a bit of a road block.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-08-2016, 11:16 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well, if you look at it from the perspective of people who are forced into this kind of "therapy" it throws a bit of a road block.

Well, only children could be "forced" into it right?

It isn't like the government is mandating that adults go and commit themselves to something that is essentially a religious cult and admit that they are powerless and weak and at the mercy of an almighty God, without whom they are essentially worthless sinners....oh wait they do, but that's 12 stepping, not pray away the gay camps. 

[fredtoast]

(02-08-2016, 11:13 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You mean the side that thinksthe state and not the parent should determine what is best for the child; is that the "other side" you are refering to?

It really has nothing to do with my thoughts on homosexuality. I would feel the same way if the state refused medical coverage for any treatment that does not put the child's health in jeopardy. What's next? The child is not schizophrenic.

Damn me and my "one-sidedness".

There is a difference between addressing the other side and acting like you don't even know it exists.

Look, you like to argue is absolutes, yet I am sure you would agree that the state has the right to take children away from parents who are abusive to their children in ways that do not involve the physical health like keeping them locked in the basement like prisoners with no contact with the outer world.  That is an extreme, but it does prove the point that abuse can be psychological.  

The suicide rates for all teens is higher than any other age group, and the rate for teens with sexual or gender identity issues is even greater.  This conversion therapy could be very dangerous.  

Would you agree that parents should have the right to change the physical sexual organs of their children through surgery if they want to?  Or should that be left for the individual to decide upon becoming an adult?

[*bfine32*]

(02-08-2016, 11:16 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well, if you look at it from the perspective of people who are forced into this kind of "therapy" it throws a bit of a road block.

I don't think the therapy involves electro-shock. The counseling will only be as effective as the patient's willingness to accept it.

Regardless what we think, nobody knows the cause of same-sex attraction or gender confusion, but this ruling states we are going to eliminate one possible remedy for those that may want it.

[*bfine32*]

(02-08-2016, 11:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: There is a difference between addressing the other side and acting like you don't even know it exists.

Look, you like to argue is absolutes, yet I am sure you would agree that the state has the right to take children away from parents who are abusive to their children in ways that do not involve the physical health like keeping them locked in the basement like prisoners with no contact with the outer world.  That is an extreme, but it does prove the point that abuse can be psychological.  

The suicide rates for all teens is higher than any other age group, and the rate for teens with sexual or gender identity issues is even greater.  This conversion therapy could be very dangerous.  

Would you agree that parents should have the right to change the physical sexual organs of their children through surgery if they want to?  Or should that be left for the individual to decide upon becoming an adult?

As I said anything that does not endanger the child should be allowed. Anytime a child goes under the knife there is a risk so I do not think a parent should be allowed to decide on reassignment surgery. You example of imprisonment is also damaging to the child's well-being. This has nothing to do with removing gender counseling from insurance coverage.

It is ironic that you label me as one-sided when there are those that think this is a good idea simply because what it "might, could, may,..........do". Hell it might lead a confused youth to answers.

[GMDino]

(02-08-2016, 12:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't think the therapy involves electro-shock. The counseling will only be as effective as the patient's willingness to accept it.

Regardless what we think, nobody knows the cause of same-sex attraction, but this ruling states we are going to eliminate one possible remedy for those that may want it.

Maybe I just have seen to many bad things about this kind of therapy and how it has been shown to be ineffective over and over.

All the ruling eliminates is the insurance paying for it.  You can still get it, but it will be an out of pocket expense.  To me that might make someone think a little harder about it.

[fredtoast]

Anyone know if there are actually any numbers out there about the "success rate" of this type therapy?

Or are there any stories from the people who actually underwent the therapy?

Seems like we have all just taken sides without knowing a lot about this therapy.

Just a wild guess, but I'll bet there are some people who claim it worked and others who claimed it was just a form of torture that filled them with self-loathing and despair.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-08-2016, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Anyone know if there are actually any numbers out there about the "success rate" of this type therapy?

Or are there any stories from the people who actually underwent the therapy?

Seems like we have all just taken sides without knowing a lot about this therapy.

Just a wild guess, but I'll bet there are some people who claim it worked and others who claimed it was just a form of torture that filled them with self-loathing and despair.

Just a quick google search puts it just below the success rates for AA
3%

[*bfine32*]

(02-08-2016, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Anyone know if there are actually any numbers out there about the "success rate" of this type therapy?

Or are there any stories from the people who actually underwent the therapy?

Seems like we have all just taken sides without knowing a lot about this therapy.

Just a wild guess, but I'll bet there are some people who claim it worked and others who claimed it was just a form of torture that filled them with self-loathing and despair.

I don't think there is any way to tell for sure and it definately depends on what one deems as "successful".

For instance NARTH has published papers that point to a success rate of 23-50%. yet Zerker just mentioned a success rate of less than 3%.

There are stories from folks that have had "successful" and "unsuccessful" therapy. My issue is what data did this state use to decide they were no longer going to not allow insurance to cover this therapy when similar measures have failed at the Federal level.

[GMDino]

(02-08-2016, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Anyone know if there are actually any numbers out there about the "success rate" of this type therapy?

Or are there any stories from the people who actually underwent the therapy?

Seems like we have all just taken sides without knowing a lot about this therapy.

Just a wild guess, but I'll bet there are some people who claim it worked and others who claimed it was just a form of torture that filled them with self-loathing and despair.

YouTube had a bunch of videos of people who went through it talking about how it didn't work...and a Vice documentary on it.

I didn't bother linking any of them but I had searched for some info after starting this thread.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(02-08-2016, 02:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't think there is any way to tell for sure and it definately depends on what one deems as "successful".

For instance NARTH has published papers that point to a success rate of 23-50%. yet Zerker just mentioned a success rate of less than 3%.

There are stories from folks that have had "successful" and "unsuccessful" therapy. My issue is what data did this state use to decide they were no longer going to not allow insurance to cover this therapy when similar measures have failed at the Federal level.

The man who is quoted by NARTH took a lot of it back...

Quote:In 2012, Spitzer renounced and retracted this study, stating "I was quite wrong in the conclusions that I made from this study. The study does not provide evidence, really, that gays can change. And that’s quite an admission on my part."[65][97][98][99] He also apologized to the gay community for making unproven claims of the efficacy of reparative therapy,[66] calling it his only professional regret.[67] Spitzer has requested that all "ex-gay" therapy organizations such as NARTH, PFOX, American College of Pediatricians, and Focus on the Family stop citing his study as evidence for conversion therapy

[Vlad]

More leftist crock.

If members of the LBGT are struggling with their little predicament, why should they not be able to seek counseling?
If they are content, then they are content, no worries.

 LGBT as a psycho disorder has been expunged from the book of psycho disorders and has been replaced with a new word. Instead of "disorder" it is "dysphoria".

Gender Dysphoria as Listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM)

Gender dysphoria is listed as a psychological condition in the DSM-5 to account for the significant distress a person might experience when a person’s gender identity or expression does not correspond with that person’s physical sex assigned at birth. In the previous edition, the condition was listed as gender identity disorder, but after receiving criticism about the stigmatizing effect of the word “disorder,” the condition was renamed gender dysphoria to ensure gender noncomformity was not labeled as a mental disorder.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria in adults requires:

• A notable conflict between their gender identity or expression and the sex they were assigned at birth that persists for at least six months.
  
• Measurable impairment or distress in routine functions, such as social or professional, as a result of the condition.
  
  

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria in children requires:

• Verbalization of the desire to be the other gender.
  
  

http://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-about-therapy/issues/LGBT-issues

Its still a disorder imo.

There is rhyme and reason for everything in nature. Sexual attraction toward the opposite sex is there for procreation period. Sexual attraction for the same sex serves no purpose. Its useless. Results in nothing. Unnatural and weird.

An NAACP worker thinks she's black. You mean she's not weird?