Do we live in a Rape Culture?

[Aquapod770]

I'm really surprised more feminists aren't against the drunk sex is rape thing. You know, equal rights and all. and I'm talking about when both parties are drunk, not when one person is drunk and the other is sober...that is definitely 100% rape.

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2016, 11:04 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yes.

"Drunk means no."

Not just blacked out, not just unconscious, not just anything but drunk.



It's about as clear as can be...to most people...that someone can be drunk and not be able to give consent without being blacked out.

Most people.

I think you're just kind of making things up now. Has anyone said it is OK to have sex with an unconcious woman?

[StLucieBengal]

(05-13-2016, 09:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In my opinion if you admit that you took advantage of a drunk woman to have sex then you are admitting to rape.  This is where we disagree.

That's the problem right there.   This falls Ito a grey area.   You can't decide how much someone drinks, and if you don't notice and are having a good time stuff happens.    

By your way then you wouldn't have any hooking up at any party with alcohol.   

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2016, 12:07 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: I'm really surprised more feminists aren't against the drunk sex is rape thing. You know, equal rights and all. and I'm talking about when both parties are drunk, not when one person is drunk and the other is sober...that is definitely 100% rape.

This is exactly what I've been saying. If you claim a woman can change her mind and call rape; simply because she said yes while she was drunk; then you are not a believer in equal rights. Who is to say the man would have accepted the drunken consent if he had not been drunk; does only one sex get a pass for being drunk?

Brings to mind a story of young buck Seargent bfine. I just got promoted to NCO and my best friend did not, we went out partying like we always did. On the way home he got a DUI. The leadership tried to punish me under UCMJ for being in the car with him. The first question the trial lawyer asked me was I drinking. When I said I had been, he informed the Command they could not hold me accountable.

EDIT: Before anyone gears up the "So you're comparing rape to DUI train!!!!" Not really the point

[GMDino]

(05-13-2016, 02:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is exactly what I've been saying. If you claim a woman can change her mind and call rape; simply because she said yes while she was drunk; then you are not a believer in equal rights. Who is to say the man would have accepted the drunken consent if he had not been drunk; does only one sex get a pass for being drunk?

Brings to mind a story of young buck Seargent bfine. I just got promoted to NCO and my best friend did not, we went out partying like we always did. On the way home he got a DUI. The leadership tried to punish me under UCMJ for being in the car with him. The first question the trial lawyer asked me was I drinking. When I said I had been, he informed the Command they could not hold me accountable.

Ah!

I see the disconnect!

You think she said yes so it was a ayes and she only "changed he mind" vs she was coherent enough to make that decision.

But to the other part of that a man could certainly say he was too drunk to consent...heck men can say "no" too...although some of the "men" on this board don't sound like that type.

[GMDino]

(05-13-2016, 02:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think you're just kind of making things up now. Has anyone said it is OK to have sex with an unconcious woman?

Well, you'd know a lot about just making things up.

Where did I say that?

(05-13-2016, 11:04 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yes.

"Drunk means no."

Not just blacked out, not just unconscious, not just anything but drunk.

 

It's about as clear as can be...to most people...that someone can be drunk and not be able to give consent without being blacked out.

Most people.

And remember, this is in response to a post saying it is only rape if the person is blacked out drunk and can't consent...versus the reality that someone can be intoxicated and not blacked out and still be raped.

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2016, 02:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ah!

I see the disconnect!

You think she said yes so it was a ayes and she only "changed he mind" vs she was coherent enough to make that decision.

But to the other part of that a man could certainly say he was too drunk to consent...heck men can say "no" too...although some of the "men" on this board don't sound like that type.

Yes, I believe she shares the responsibility if she willingly got intoxicated, consented to sex and later said I would not have consented had I not been drunk.

I guess you are just not willing to put the burden of responsibility on the little lady.

[Brownshoe]

(05-13-2016, 02:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well, you'd know a lot about just making things up.

Where did I say that?



And remember, this is in response to a post saying it is only rape if the person is blacked out drunk and can't consent...versus the reality that someone can be intoxicated and not blacked out and still be raped.

I said that they can still give consent, not that they can't be raped.

Someone CAN give consent while they're drunk. That's why there are 0 cases that a person gets convicted for having consensual sex with a drunk person. The link that you claim that happened the dude was caught having sex with the girl when she was passed out. You are deep in a fantasy world.

[GMDino]

(05-13-2016, 02:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, I believe she shares the responsibility if she willingly got intoxicated, consented to sex and later said I would not have consented had I not been drunk.

I guess you are just not willing to put the burden of responsibility on the little lady.

I guess I just know drunk people who did things they wouldn't have done sober.

Willingly or not.

And I give them a little bit of respect when someone takes advantage of that.

My bad.  

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2016, 02:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: I guess I just know drunk people who did things they wouldn't have done sober.

Willingly or not.

And I give them a little bit of respect when someone takes advantage of that.

My bad.  

Well you sound so awesome. How is a drunken male supposed to know he is taking advantage? Is he supposed to be responsible for both of them?

I take it back; You're not awesome, you're just not in favor of equal rights.

[treee]

No but we are still feeling the aftereffects of centuries of the objectification of women and equating their worth to their body. I'm sure this affects the attitude of men towards women and contributes to the epidemic of women being physically intimidated and coerced.

[SteelCitySouth]

I don't get how two people can be drunk and have sex an one party is responsible. I get it if one person is drunk and the other is sober, I get it if one person is passed out and the other goes ahead with things.

Please don't come at me with some ridiculous scenario where both are drunk and one party actually attacks the other. I am talking about what appears to be buyers remorse. Just cause you wake up the next day and realize your beer goggles got you to bang someone you normally would not have, that in no way equates to rape.

[GMDino]

(05-13-2016, 03:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well you sound so awesome. How is a drunken male supposed to know he is taking advantage? Is he supposed to be responsible for both of them?

I take it back; You're not awesome, you're just not in favor of equal rights.

Yes, poor men with their lack of rights. 

Good line of thought going there...keep it up.

[*bfine32*]

(05-13-2016, 04:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes, poor men with their lack of rights. 

Good line of thought going there...keep it up.

Nope, you apparently don't think the little ladies are mature enough to be responsible for their own actions. The man has to decide for both of them. Do you advocate men ordering at a resturant for women too?

I thought that mentality died about 30 years ago: This thread has shown me I am mistaken.

Nobody but you mentioned lack of rights for males.

[GMDino]

(05-13-2016, 04:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, you apparently don't think the little ladies are mature enough to be responsible for their own actions. The man has to decide for both of them. Do you advocate men ordering at a resturant for women too?

I thought that mentality died about 30 years ago: This thread has shown me I am mistaken.

That's a pretty interesting twisting of what I said...and reality.

Instead of saying a person could be drunk enough to do something they normally wouldn't and therefore didn't really mean to do it you think I mean women are to fragile to do anything on their own.

(05-13-2016, 04:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nobody but you mentioned lack of rights for males.

You said:

(05-13-2016, 03:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well you sound so awesome. How is a drunken male supposed to know he is taking advantage? Is he supposed to be responsible for both of them?

I take it back; You're not awesome, you're just not in favor of equal rights.

Which implies men don't have the same rights as women or I would like to take them away. I said neither thing. You just trolled made that up.


Solid post.

Maybe add a couple more personal attacks instead of talking about the topic of rape culture.

[GMDino]

If you are too drunk to make decisions your consent is no better than if you were forced into it.

There will always be a gray area because we don't have a situation where everyone handles their drinks the same.  

Best to avoid drunken hookups in general.

But if you HAVE to have sex with a drunken person be aware that their "consent" may not be that.

Doesn't matter what scenario is made up.

And that goes for men and women.

[Belsnickel]

(05-13-2016, 12:07 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: I'm really surprised more feminists aren't against the drunk sex is rape thing. You know, equal rights and all. and I'm talking about when both parties are drunk, not when one person is drunk and the other is sober...that is definitely 100% rape.

That's actually what everyone in this thread has said, as far as I can tell. The key is someone taking advantage of someone being drunk. If both parties are intoxicated then there is no one taking advantage of the situation. But that last part puts you in disagreement with quite a few people because they feel that you are capable of consent unless you are passed out.

[Rotobeast]

(05-13-2016, 05:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's actually what everyone in this thread has said, as far as I can tell. The key is someone taking advantage of someone being drunk. If both parties are intoxicated then there is no one taking advantage of the situation. But that last part puts you in disagreement with quite a few people because they feel that you are capable of consent unless you are passed out.

I think fall down drunk is a good line.
If they lose their balance enough to fall and catch themselves against a wall or chair, they're too drunk.
If not to that degree, they are in pretty good control of themselves.
This has been my experience.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-13-2016, 10:08 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I think fall down drunk is a good line.
If they lose their balance enough to fall and catch themselves against a wall or chair, they're too drunk.
If not to that degree, they are in pretty good control of themselves.
This has been my experience.

Can't find the scene when they first get to the club but this will do.  

[GMDino]

(05-13-2016, 10:08 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I think fall down drunk is a good line.
If they lose their balance enough to fall and catch themselves against a wall or chair, they're too drunk.
If not to that degree, they are in pretty good control of themselves.
This has been my experience.

Again it comes down to the person.  I can walk a better straight line when I'm drunk.  

And I've never blacked out.  Never forgot what I did.  For some reason that little switch that keeps me from doing something *too* stupid* still works no matter what or how much I drink.

But...I wouldn't want to be held responsible for what I say or do because my inhibitions HAVE been compromised and I HAVE done things that were stupid or that I would not have done sober.

And I know people that I thought for sure were stone cold sober who the next day told me they didn't remember a thing.  

Being drunk is different for everyone and its best to just NOT try and hook up at that time.