Duke Tobin on draft

[casear2727]

(04-24-2023, 11:23 AM)higgy100 Wrote: But Ringo is not a good cover corner and got exposed alot last year. I need a a guy than can cover.

Ringo is still only 20 years old.  He probably has the best capability of improving more than any other CB in the draft. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-23-2023, 08:06 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Weight doesn’t bother me if he has the frame to add an extra 20 lbs over the next 12 months. He probably can do that. Bengals can wait on him, most of the CB needy teams need him starting now so he could fall to the end of rnd 1.

Same way I feel and that is why Forbes could fall to us, we don't need him to start this year, he would be future insurance 
and could be a great Corner in the NFL. I can never argue against taking a Corner early in the Draft, great investment.

(04-24-2023, 09:27 AM)Synric Wrote: I would agree with this... a sneaky choice though might be Kelee Ringo. 

Ringo is a big long versatile corner that plays physical. He is one of if not the best run defending corner in the draft class. Lou loves corners that are good in run support. 

I do like Ringo as a tackler. I just don't like that he plays way too aggressive, kind of similar to CTB coming out.

CTB got this out of his game though, so it is possible for Ringo to do the same and he is really young.

(04-24-2023, 10:47 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: We are basically getting two first round picks to contribute this year. Dax...and then whoever we take at 28. It's insane but our saftey group has the potential to be better this year than last. More athletic, better playmaking, etc. Communication and insticts remain to be seen. 

Yes, excited to see our Safeties this year, namely Dax. I think he can grow into one of the best in the league.

(04-24-2023, 11:23 AM)higgy100 Wrote: But Ringo is not a good cover corner and got exposed alot last year. I need a a guy than can cover.

He CAN cover, he is just overly aggressive at times and it bites his team in the ass.

(04-24-2023, 11:28 AM)Synric Wrote: Yes Ringo had a bad game against Ohio State and Marvin Harrison jr but he bounced back against Quentin Johnston only allowing 1 catch for 3 yards. Ringo year one you probably want him in a cover 3 defense. The Bengals have met with Ringo twice so far this off-season. 

Edit: Cam Smith is starting to get 1st round buzz again headed into draft week. He is one of my favorite fits for the Bengals defense.

That is a big deal covering Quentin Johnston that well and that gives me a good feeling if we do take Ringo.

(04-24-2023, 11:43 AM)Memphis_Bengal Wrote: While that's technically true, in order for it to not be a net loss Dax would have to be better than Bates. 

I think Dax can be better than Bates, especially as a tackler. Bates wasn't great early in the season last year either.

He was playing not to get hurt and I didn't like it.

[bengals1969]

(04-24-2023, 03:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Same way I feel and that is why Forbes could fall to us, we don't need him to start this year, he would be future insurance 
and could be a great Corner in the NFL. I can never argue against taking a Corner early in the Draft, great investment.


I do like Ringo as a tackler. I just don't like that he plays way too aggressive, kind of similar to CTB coming out.

CTB got this out of his game though, so it is possible for Ringo to do the same and he is really young.


Yes, excited to see our Safeties this year, namely Dax. I think he can grow into one of the best in the league.


He CAN cover, he is just overly aggressive at times and it bites his team in the ass.


That is a big deal covering Quentin Johnston that well and that gives me a good feeling if we do take Ringo.


I think Dax can be better than Bates, especially as a tackler. Bates wasn't great early in the season last year either.

He was playing not to get hurt and I didn't like it.

I assume,  always dangerous, the Bengals are focused on beating Mahomes in 2023 and beyond.  What draft picks help do that in 2023?  There aren't many players at 28 that step in and play right now and be difference makers.  TE or RB are two that could and would pay dividends for years.  There are those players in abundance at 28, so there might be their flavor waiting to be selected and flip that 3 point loss to a win.  At #28 a cover corner or DE/DT likely would sit in 2023, then hopefully be starters in 2024 and play well enough to take down Mahomes.  WR would be great for 2024, not so much this year.  OT or OG likely sits in 2023 and might be backups in 2024.  So the case is there for a TE or RB for extra juice right now, then use later rounds to flesh out Dline and secondary.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-24-2023, 03:43 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I assume,  always dangerous, the Bengals are focused on beating Mahomes in 2023 and beyond.  What draft picks help do that in 2023?  There aren't many players at 28 that step in and play right now and be difference makers.  TE or RB are two that could and would pay dividends for years.  There are those players in abundance at 28, so there might be their flavor waiting to be selected and flip that 3 point loss to a win.  At #28 a cover corner or DE/DT likely would sit in 2023, then hopefully be starters in 2024 and play well enough to take down Mahomes.  WR would be great for 2024, not so much this year.  OT or OG likely sits in 2023 and might be backups in 2024.  So the case is there for a TE or RB for extra juice right now, then use later rounds to flesh out Dline and secondary.

Great points on why we might go TE and RB early instead of Defense. Ideally we extend DJ Reader and bring back Apple and Flowers
while adding the players you speak of to beat the Chiefs. I did a Mock yesterday that I loved maybe more than anything, I went with 
Darnell Washington, Tyjae Spears and Hunter Luepke on Offense. If our OL continues to get better try stopping Burrow and this
Offense KC....

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-24-2023, 12:21 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Ringo is still only 20 years old.  He probably has the best capability of improving more than any other CB in the draft. 

He needs to, because he kinda sucks right now.  He's a physical traits pick. I am not picking a traits guy in the 1st who is not real good at the primary thing his position does. Maybe if he is there at #60, or #92. But, fir me, I'd avoid Ringo at all costs. 

No QBs who can't throw. No WRs that can't catch. No lineman that can't block. No CBs that cannot cover. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-24-2023, 03:43 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I assume,  always dangerous, the Bengals are focused on beating Mahomes in 2023 and beyond.  What draft picks help do that in 2023?  There aren't many players at 28 that step in and play right now and be difference makers.  TE or RB are two that could and would pay dividends for years.  There are those players in abundance at 28, so there might be their flavor waiting to be selected and flip that 3 point loss to a win.  At #28 a cover corner or DE/DT likely would sit in 2023, then hopefully be starters in 2024 and play well enough to take down Mahomes.  WR would be great for 2024, not so much this year.  OT or OG likely sits in 2023 and might be backups in 2024.  So the case is there for a TE or RB for extra juice right now, then use later rounds to flesh out Dline and secondary.

Agreed. With better OL depth/health OR Boyd healthy, we win last year. 

Pass rush help, especially on the interior, would help. But outside of Carter/Kancey, you don't have a lot of that with this year's class. Bresee has the tools. Adebewore as well..Not the production. 

Ends like Murphy or White or Tuipulotu would help, I think. Murphy is a Rd 1 guy, White is borderline. Tuli Rd 2. 

Another corner would help. Banks or Forbes. Brents,,Stevenson, Miss, or Trice later would be nice. 

As would another weapon on O: Mayer, Kincaid, LaPorta, Kraft, Musgrave, Gibbs, Flowers. All Rd 1-2 probably. WR depth later. 

As would better OT depth, though I think IOL could use it more (short term) than OT. 

[casear2727]

(04-24-2023, 09:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: He needs to, because he kinda sucks right now.  He's a physical traits pick. I am not picking a traits guy in the 1st who is not real good at the primary thing his position does. Maybe if he is there at #60, or #92. But, fir me, I'd avoid Ringo at all costs. 

No QBs who can't throw. No WRs that can't catch. No lineman that can't block. No CBs that cannot cover. 

Saying a 20 yr old sucks is a bit harsh, especially for a kid playing the 2nd most difficult positon in football and is expected to be drafted in the Top 3 rounds of the NFL... 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-24-2023, 11:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Saying a 20 yr old sucks is a bit harsh, especially for a kid playing the 2nd most difficult positon in football and is expected to be drafted in the Top 3 rounds of the NFL... 

Agreed. 

But he is a project (with good raw materials). I'd rather draftc a player who can help us now at #28. 

[higgy100]

(04-24-2023, 03:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Same way I feel and that is why Forbes could fall to us, we don't need him to start this year, he would be future insurance 
and could be a great Corner in the NFL. I can never argue against taking a Corner early in the Draft, great investment.


I do like Ringo as a tackler. I just don't like that he plays way too aggressive, kind of similar to CTB coming out.

CTB got this out of his game though, so it is possible for Ringo to do the same and he is really young.


Yes, excited to see our Safeties this year, namely Dax. I think he can grow into one of the best in the league.


He CAN cover, he is just overly aggressive at times and it bites his team in the ass.


That is a big deal covering Quentin Johnston that well and that gives me a good feeling if we do take Ringo.


I think Dax can be better than Bates, especially as a tackler. Bates wasn't great early in the season last year either.

He was playing not to get hurt and I didn't like it.

I watched several games he got burned bad whether technique, discipline or ego. Look, every CB cover but it's all about proper technique and discipline and not about being a hero. Controlled aggression is the best way to be aggressive. Pick your spots.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-24-2023, 11:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Saying a 20 yr old sucks is a bit harsh, especially for a kid playing the 2nd most difficult positon in football and is expected to be drafted in the Top 3 rounds of the NFL... 

He reminds me a lot of Dre Kirkpatrick.
He'll be great but he'll have plays where he just gets absolutely whooped.
If Ringo can't get better consistency, he'll leave fans frustrated at times.
Also combine that with the fact he didn't put up too great of agility drills, it feels like a gamble.
I (heavily) prefer Banks, Forbes, Cam Smith, and even DJ Turner over Ringo.
With that said, if Ringo is the selection, I obviously would hope he becomes (far) more consistent than Kirkpatrick and could really blossom into a true CB1.

[RancidJedi]

(04-24-2023, 12:21 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Ringo is still only 20 years old.  He probably has the best capability of improving more than any other CB in the draft. 

Ringo has terrible footwork and hips, he makes Dre Kirkpatrick look like Deion Sanders.  the more people watch his game tape and workouts the lower he goes down the draft board. 

[RancidJedi]

(04-25-2023, 01:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He reminds me a lot of Dre Kirkpatrick.
He'll be great but he'll have plays where he just gets absolutely whooped.
If Ringo can't get better consistency, he'll leave fans frustrated at times.
Also combine that with the fact he didn't put up too great of agility drills, it feels like a gamble.
I (heavily) prefer Banks, Forbes, Cam Smith, and even DJ Turner over Ringo.
With that said, if Ringo is the selection, I obviously would hope he becomes (far) more consistent than Kirkpatrick and could really blossom into a true CB1.

Dre Kirkpatrick is a great comparison.  he had awful footwork in nfl pre draft workouts. 

[casear2727]

(04-25-2023, 03:55 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Agreed. 

But he is a project (with good raw materials). I'd rather draftc a player who can help us now at #28. 

He is not consideration at 28 for me.

[casear2727]

(04-25-2023, 01:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: He reminds me a lot of Dre Kirkpatrick.
He'll be great but he'll have plays where he just gets absolutely whooped.
If Ringo can't get better consistency, he'll leave fans frustrated at times.
Also combine that with the fact he didn't put up too great of agility drills, it feels like a gamble.
I (heavily) prefer Banks, Forbes, Cam Smith, and even DJ Turner over Ringo.
With that said, if Ringo is the selection, I obviously would hope he becomes (far) more consistent than Kirkpatrick and could really blossom into a true CB1.

(04-25-2023, 01:39 PM)RancidJedi Wrote: Ringo has terrible footwork and hips, he makes Dre Kirkpatrick look like Deion Sanders.  the more people watch his game tape and workouts the lower he goes down the draft board. 

(04-25-2023, 01:41 PM)RancidJedi Wrote: Dre Kirkpatrick is a great comparison.  he had awful footwork in nfl pre draft workouts. 

I do not like Ringo in the 1st.  But  I would have zero issue with him in any other round.   I'm 100% for Banks & Forbes before Ringo.  I'd be Ok letting Lou decide who he prefers between Ringo, Cam Smith, and DJ Turner. 


Other than maybe technique, Im not really on board with the Kirkpatrick comparison.
Dre was 180 pounds and ran a 4.6, not athletic.
Ringo, again is only 20 yrs old, so technique would be his flaw. He is almost 210 pounds and runs a 4.3.

Lou being a DB coach could probably mold this kid into a solid player.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-25-2023, 02:38 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I do not like Ringo in the 1st.  But  I would have zero issue with him in any other round.   I'm 100% for Banks & Forbes before Ringo.  I'd be Ok letting Lou decide who he prefers between Ringo, Cam Smith, and DJ Turner. 


Other than maybe technique, Im not really on board with the Kirkpatrick comparison.
Dre was 180 pounds and ran a 4.6, not athletic.
Ringo, again is only 20 yrs old, so technique would be his flaw. He is almost 210 pounds and runs a 4.3.

Lou being a DB coach could probably mold this kid into a solid player.

I explicitly stated my comparison is that he'll have some plays where he just gets whooped.
Kirkpatrick was notorious for that in his career.
I wasn't comparing size/speed.
But FWIW, Kirkpatrick's and Ringo's 3-cone was practically identical (7.20 vs 7.21).
Broad jump was about identical (10'0" vs 10'2").
DK had a better vert (35" vs 33.5").
DK didn't run the shuttle back then, so can't compare there.

My worry with Ringo is while he's fast in a straight line, can he stick with receivers when they shift?
From what I've watched of Ringo, I'm worried he can't. Although I will say that from the vids I watched earlier this winter, it turned me away from him and thus I didn't care to find more.

[007BengalsFan]

(04-24-2023, 03:43 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I assume,  always dangerous, the Bengals are focused on beating Mahomes in 2023 and beyond.  What draft picks help do that in 2023?  There aren't many players at 28 that step in and play right now and be difference makers.  TE or RB are two that could and would pay dividends for years.  There are those players in abundance at 28, so there might be their flavor waiting to be selected and flip that 3 point loss to a win.  At #28 a cover corner or DE/DT likely would sit in 2023, then hopefully be starters in 2024 and play well enough to take down Mahomes.  WR would be great for 2024, not so much this year.  OT or OG likely sits in 2023 and might be backups in 2024.  So the case is there for a TE or RB for extra juice right now, then use later rounds to flesh out Dline and secondary.

 We got beat by Kansas City for three reasons none of which had anything to do with a TE or RB. 

#1  The Oline wasnt good enough in talent and depth.  

#2  The D-line didnt get enough pressure which allowed Mahomes to sit back there and make plays

#3  The talent in the secondary was not good enough to compensate for a mediocre pass rush which allowed Mahomes to throw for 326 yards with 2 TDs

If we want to beat K.C. and Mahomes we need to improve the O-line.  We need to improve the pass rush and we need to get better in the secondary.  That would mean we should be looking at DT, DE, CB and OT.  One of those positions will be there at 28th.  The Oline with everybody healthy might be passable allthough depth is very questionable but we still need to improve the pass rush and CB position regardless.  Defense should be the focus with the #28 pick especially when those are premium positions vs drafting a TE or RB.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-25-2023, 04:16 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote:  We got beat by Kansas City for three reasons none of which had anything to do with a TE or RB. 

#1  The Oline wasnt good enough in talent and depth.  

#2  The D-line didnt get enough pressure which allowed Mahomes to sit back there and make plays

#3  The talent in the secondary was not good enough to compensate for a mediocre pass rush which allowed Mahomes to throw for 326 yards with 2 TDs

If we want to beat K.C. and Mahomes we need to improve the O-line.  We need to improve the pass rush and we need to get better in the secondary.  That would mean we should be looking at DT, DE, CB and OT.  One of those positions will be there at 28th.  The Oline with everybody healthy might be passable allthough depth is very questionable but we still need to improve the pass rush and CB position regardless.  Defense should be the focus with the #28 pick especially when those are premium positions vs drafting a TE or RB.

Good points 007. I think we take a Corner like Emmanuelle Forbes at 28 on Thursday night. He should help for the future in beating 
them Chiefs. Not expecting Darnell Wright or Bijan Robinson to be there and Wright is the only OT I would take in the first round that
is possible at 28. Too many questions with Dawand Jones and his weight and avoiding agility drills.

Also, if Carman plays good at RT we are upgraded on the OL. Need to add a 3-tech to get push up the middle and extend DJ Reader 
if we want to get better at getting pressure, Trey was also dealing with a broken wrist in that game against the Chiefs. We will be 
getting back Chido which should help the Secondary and CTB should just get better and better. Dax could be a stud in the future.

Lou likes Nick Scott so I think he will fill in just fine as the other Safety. 

[bengals1969]

(04-25-2023, 04:16 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote:  We got beat by Kansas City for three reasons none of which had anything to do with a TE or RB. 

#1  The Oline wasnt good enough in talent and depth.  

#2  The D-line didnt get enough pressure which allowed Mahomes to sit back there and make plays

#3  The talent in the secondary was not good enough to compensate for a mediocre pass rush which allowed Mahomes to throw for 326 yards with 2 TDs

If we want to beat K.C. and Mahomes we need to improve the O-line.  We need to improve the pass rush and we need to get better in the secondary.  That would mean we should be looking at DT, DE, CB and OT.  One of those positions will be there at 28th.  The Oline with everybody healthy might be passable allthough depth is very questionable but we still need to improve the pass rush and CB position regardless.  Defense should be the focus with the #28 pick especially when those are premium positions vs drafting a TE or RB.

I fully realize why the Bengals got beat. Mahomes had too much time to pass and Burrow didn’t. I’d love to get a lock down corner at #28 or a disruptive linemen on defense. My point is they probably won’t contribute much this season short of injury. Oline has had vast money spent on it, can’t keep doing it. At best a backup is drafted on day 3. Who could contribute to beating Mahomes right now as a starter? Possible a TE or RB. Kelcie was a big weapon when Mahomes had Hill. Depends upon who falls, cuz likely somebody the Bengals really like will fall.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-25-2023, 09:36 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I fully realize why the Bengals got beat. Mahomes had too much time to pass and Burrow didn’t. I’d love to get a lock down corner at #28 or a disruptive linemen on defense. My point is they probably won’t contribute much this season short of injury. Oline has had vast money spent on it, can’t keep doing it. At best a backup is drafted on day 3. Who could contribute to beating Mahomes right now as a starter? Possible a TE or RB. Kelcie was a big weapon when Mahomes had Hill. Depends upon who falls, cuz likely somebody the Bengals really like will fall.

KC is 1-3 vs Burrow. They beat us on a uncharacteristic punt return, a personal foul on a scramble. The regular season game we gave up no sacks to Joe. The injury riddled OL did struggle. KC barely beat us. We were 3-1 vs KC and Buffalo and had the second best winning steak of 10 games.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(04-25-2023, 10:40 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: KC is 1-3 vs Burrow. They beat us on a uncharacteristic punt return, a personal foul on a scramble. The regular season game we gave up no sacks to Joe. The injury riddled OL did struggle. KC barely beat us. We were 3-1 vs KC and Buffalo and had the second best winning steak of 10 games.

Yep, worth remembering. Tbh I thought KC were good value for more than a 'last second FG' win over us, but we were able to make the necessary plays to keep it close throughout. We've also done so in the 4 games across the past 2 years, like you've said. I don't think we should be moulding the team based around 'how to beat Mahomes'... we already know that if we play well, games against KC are likely just close ones that go either way. No need to reinvent the wheel here, we should focus on what makes us better at what we want to do, across the whole season.