(11-10-2020, 04:39 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I've gotta say, the whole "sore losers" narrative from 2016 definitely seems extra ridiculous as we see how GOP officials are acting right now.
(11-10-2020, 05:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump won in 2016 and he still to this day talks about how the democrats committed fraud in that election. Even when Trump wins he asserts that he's been cheated and fraud occurred because he didn't win by as much as he thinks he should have.
I hadn't necessarily thought of that, but you are correct; even in victory, he assumes the role of victimized martyr.
(11-10-2020, 05:25 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I hadn't necessarily thought of that, but you are correct. In even victory, he assumes the role of victimized martyr.
I just don't think there is a possibility of pleasing someone like him, I really don't. The election could be flipped so Trump won every state except Delaware and DC and Trump would still insist Biden's 6 EC votes came via corrupted votes. Hell, I'm at the point where I don't even think a 2nd term would placate Trump unless we accepted at least one of his sons as his successor.
This is why we don't deal with terrorists. Ok, maybe I'm going overboard but a man who will bring meritless court cases isn't going to just throw his hands and say "Fine, you're right" when they're thrown out. People who will say baseless stuff with the utmost confidence and indignation aren't going to back down once you finish your logical retort.
BREAKING NEWS: Erie, Pa. #USPS whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations of a supervisor tampering with mail-in ballots after being questioned by investigators, according to IG.
I know that when I saw this was going on with Project Veritas it was bullshit.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother
Robert R. Lynn has been charged with felony counts of forgery and interference with an election
A Pennsylvania man has been arrested after allegedly forging the signature of his dead mother on an application for an absentee ballot.
Robert R. Lynn, 67, of Luzerne County has been charged with felony counts of forgery and interference with an election, The Huffington Post reports.
Lynn, a Republican and Trump supporter, is accused of requesting an absentee ballot for his mother Marie P. Hannigan, who died in 2015. The application noted Hannigan’s reason for the request as “visiting great-grandkids Oct. 24-Nov. 10,” the complaint states, according to the report
(11-10-2020, 08:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother
Robert R. Lynn has been charged with felony counts of forgery and interference with an election
A Pennsylvania man has been arrested after allegedly forging the signature of his dead mother on an application for an absentee ballot.
Robert R. Lynn, 67, of Luzerne County has been charged with felony counts of forgery and interference with an election, The Huffington Post reports.
Lynn, a Republican and Trump supporter, is accused of requesting an absentee ballot for his mother Marie P. Hannigan, who died in 2015. The application noted Hannigan’s reason for the request as “visiting great-grandkids Oct. 24-Nov. 10,” the complaint states, according to the report
My brother (a Trump guy) said he was gonna try and vote twice. Not sure if he did... But I know his pandemic denying ex wife has the Rona at the moment... After the election, and everything.
I'm gonna break every record they've got. I'm tellin' you right now. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but it's goin' to get done.
(11-10-2020, 09:06 PM)jason Wrote: We'll be looking at that very strongly...
My brother (a Trump guy) said he was gonna try and vote twice. Not sure if he did... But I know his pandemic denying ex wife has the Rona at the moment... After the election, and everything.
Well prez did tell them to vote twice. Should be a legit legal defense under this court system he packed I would imagine.
(11-10-2020, 08:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump supporter arrested after requesting absentee ballot for dead mother
Robert R. Lynn has been charged with felony counts of forgery and interference with an election
A Pennsylvania man has been arrested after allegedly forging the signature of his dead mother on an application for an absentee ballot.
Robert R. Lynn, 67, of Luzerne County has been charged with felony counts of forgery and interference with an election, The Huffington Post reports.
Lynn, a Republican and Trump supporter, is accused of requesting an absentee ballot for his mother Marie P. Hannigan, who died in 2015. The application noted Hannigan’s reason for the request as “visiting great-grandkids Oct. 24-Nov. 10,” the complaint states, according to the report
(11-10-2020, 12:00 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Ironically, her political aspirations began with her complaining about trash in Baltimore and have ended with her leaving the city littered with her signs.
I for one am shocked that the party that nurtured a conspiracy theory about secret underground pedophile tunnels is having a hard time accepting the reality of losing the election.
Quote:Michigan's top law enforcement officer blasted the legal efforts of President Donald Trump in the state on Wednesday, saying they include no evidence of misconduct, unfairly attack Black voters and workers in Detroit and will not change the outcome of the election.
Attorney General Dana Nessel, a Democrat, did not mince her words in critiquing the president's multiple lawsuits filed in Michigan. She said there is no evidence to support any of the president's claims of election misconduct, or the claims are "demonstrably false."
"Really the themes that we see, that persist, are this: Black people are corrupt, Black people are incompetent and Black people can’t be trusted. That’s the narrative that is continually espoused by the Trump campaign and their allies in these lawsuits," Nessel said during a press call.
Nessel noted the lawsuits focus on allegations of misconduct in Detroit, a city that typically votes for Democrats and that has a majority Black population.
Other places in the state that have a majority white population where Democratic nominee Joe Biden earned a higher percentage of the vote this year than Hillary Clinton in 2016, such as Oakland and Kent counties, have not been a focus of Trump lawsuits, Nessel said.
On Wednesday, the Trump campaign filed a lawsuit in federal court in the Western District in Michigan. Including more than 100 affidavits, the campaign alleges that there was enough wrongdoing involved in counting votes in Detroit that a judge should temporarily prevent the certification of election results in the city and throughout the state.
The lawsuits are part of a national strategy aimed at attacking the credibility of the election, won by Biden. In Michigan, Biden received roughly 146,000 more votes than Trump, according to unofficial election results.
The affidavits included with the federal lawsuit include allegations that poll challengers were denied access to the TCF Center in Detroit, where absentee ballots were counted, and some specific allegations of ballot counting problems. They do not provide evidence of widespread fraud or egregious misconduct.
She also accused the Trump campaign of trying to hunt for favorable courts or judges, a process known as "forum shopping." The federal lawsuit, filed in the Western District of the state, focuses primarily on allegations involving Detroit. Lansing, the seat of government, is located in the Western District of the state.
"In my view, this is really a brazen case of forum shopping," Nessel said.
"I will add that forum shopping and judge shopping are my least two favorite shopping seasons."
All five district court judges in the Western District were nominated by Republican presidents. Of the 20 district judges in the Eastern District, 13 were nominated by Democratic presidents.
None of the claims in any of the lawsuits are true, Nessel said. But even if some were true, they would not change the result of the election in the state, she said.
She argued that if she tried to file a lawsuit with claims that were "this baseless and this frivolous, I would be sanctioned and I would likely be looking at a loss of licensure."
While the lawsuits won't change the election outcome, Nessel said, she believes they will have a long-term negative impact on society's ability to trust the electoral process.
Election workers across the state are conducting the process of certifying election results, known as canvassing. Barring intervention by a court, results are expected to be certified at the county level on Nov. 17, and on the state level on Nov. 23.
I believe that, as of this post, Trump and his lawyers are 0-fer on his challenges.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
Quote:By now, it’s well-established that most of the arguments put forward by President Trump’s reelection campaign in its challenge of the results of the 2020 election are baseless and highly speculative. Even Trump allies, as The Washington Post reported late Tuesday, acknowledge the apparent futility of the effort. Others have reasoned that there’s no harm in going through the motions, with one anonymous GOP official asking, “What’s the downside for humoring him” for a little while?
Follow the latest on Election 2020 But as scenes in courtrooms nationwide in recent days have shown, there is indeed a downside for those tasked with pursuing these claims. Repeatedly now, they have been rebuked by judges for how thin their arguments have been. The most famous scene came in Pennsylvania, where a Trump lawyer strained to avoid acknowledging that their people were, in fact, allowed to observe the vote-counting process in Philadelphia:
Quote:At the city’s federal courthouse on Thursday evening, attorneys for Trump asked a judge to issue an emergency order to stop the count, alleging that all Republican observers had been barred.
Under sharp questioning from Judge Paul S. Diamond, however, they conceded that Trump in fact had “a nonzero number of people in the room,” leaving Diamond audibly exasperated.
“I’m sorry, then what’s your problem?” asked Diamond, who was appointed to the federal bench by President George W. Bush. Denying Trump’s request, Diamond struck a deal for 60 observers from each party to be allowed inside.
At one point on Friday afternoon, 12 Republican observers and five Democrats were watching the count, according to a ballot counter who was working.
After that “nonzero” answer, Diamond pressed the Trump campaign lawyer to be more explicit — and he suggestively invoked their standing with the bar: “I’m asking you as a member of the bar of this court: Are people representing the plaintiffs in the room?” The lawyer responded more directly: “Yes.” By the end of the hearing, Diamond invoked his right to make sure lawyers in his courtroom acted in good faith.
Another Trump lawyer, Jonathan S. Goldstein, was also grilled by a Pennsylvania judge this week. Under questioning, he acknowledged that, contrary to Trump’s claims about rampant voter fraud, he wasn’t alleging fraud in the 592 ballots he sought to disqualify in Montgomery County, Pa.
Again, Trump’s lawyer strained to avoid directly answering the question but was ultimately forced to acknowledge it:
Quote:THE COURT: In your petition, which is right before me — and I read it several times — you don’t claim that any electors or the Board of the County were guilty of fraud, correct? That’s correct?
GOLDSTEIN: Your Honor, accusing people of fraud is a pretty big step. And it is rare that I call somebody a liar, and I am not calling the Board of the [Democratic National Committee] or anybody else involved in this a liar. Everybody is coming to this with good faith. The DNC is coming with good faith. We’re all just trying to get an election done. We think these were a mistake, but we think they are a fatal mistake, and these ballots ought not be counted.
THE COURT: I understand. I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?
GOLDSTEIN: To my knowledge at present, no.
THE COURT: Are you claiming that there is any undue or improper influence upon the elector with respect to these 592 ballots?
GOLDSTEIN: To my knowledge at present, no.
The Trump campaign also sought to temporarily stop counting some ballots in Detroit. It cited a GOP poll watcher who had said she had been told by an unidentified person that late mail ballots were being predated to before Election Day, so they would be considered valid.
The judge repeatedly asserted this was hearsay, but Trump campaign lawyer Thor Hearne sought to argue that it wasn’t — despite it having been someone who said they heard about something they weren’t personally involved in. He pointed to a vague note the poll watcher produced — which said “entered receive date as 11/2/20 on 11/4/20” — as evidence:
Quote:STEPHENS: So I want to make sure I understand you. The affiant is not the person who had knowledge of this. Is that correct?
HEARNE: The affiant had direct firsthand knowledge of the communication with the elections inspector and the document they provided them.
STEPHENS: Okay, which is generally known as hearsay, right?
HEARNE: I would not think that’s hearsay, Your Honor. That’s firsthand personal knowledge by the affiant of what she physically observed. And we included an exhibit which is a physical copy of the note that she was provided.
The two later returned to the point, after Stephens reviewed the note, and Stephens echoed Judge Diamond’s exasperation:
Quote:STEPHENS: I’m still trying to understand why this isn’t hearsay.
HEARNE: Well, it’s, it, I –
STEPHENS: I absolutely understand what the affiant says she heard someone say to her. But the truth of the matter … that you’re going for was that there was an illegal act occurring. Because other than that I don’t know what its relevancy is.
HEARNE: Right. I would say, Your Honor, in terms of the hearsay point, this is a firsthand factual statement made by Ms. Connarn, and she has made that statement based on her own firsthand physical evidence and knowledge --
STEPHENS: “I heard somebody else say something.” Tell me why that’s not hearsay. Come on, now.
HEARNE: Well it’s a firsthand statement of her physical –
STEPHENS: It’s an out-of-court statement offered where the truth of the matter is asserted, right?
In a later written decision, Stephens slammed the argument as “inadmissible hearsay within hearsay.” And after the campaign appealed, a Michigan appeals court rebuked it Monday for not including required documentation.
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“I regret to inform you that your submission is defective,” the court wrote said, outlining the missing attachments.
Another of the Trump team’s claims crumbled rather quickly in Georgia.
In Chatham County, as in Michigan, the Trump campaign cited supposed evidence that 53 late ballots may have been predated so they could be counted. Except two witnesses they called acknowledged under oath that they didn’t know whether the ballots were received after the deadline. And two others for the local board of elections testified that they were, in fact, received on time.
Judge James Bass dismissed the case in a one-sentence, eight-word ruling, saying, “I’m denying the request and dismissing the petition” and abruptly adjourned the hearing. He then elaborated in a written opinion, saying that “the Court finds that there is no evidence that the ballots referenced in the petition were received after 7:00 p.m. on election day, thereby making those ballots invalid. Additionally, there is no evidence that the Chatham County Board of Elections or the Chatham County Board of Registrars has failed to comply with the law.”
The common thread running through all of these is that Trump’s lawyers are regularly offering a significantly more watered-down version of Trump’s claims about rampant voter fraud — because they, unlike Trump, have to substantiate their claims. And as these exchanges show, it’s a rather thankless task that can quickly land them on a judge’s bad side.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
This is what you guys keep defending. Just words after all...right? How can we really know what he means? Right?
"We're just letting him vent to give him time to process the loss. What harm could humoring him do?" say anonymous White House staffers.
"He's not delegitimizing democracy, he's just exercising his legal rights; the process will carry on," say GOP Senators & #ButGorsuch pundits. https://t.co/WD5CJA44H7
WASHINGTON (AP) — America’s ruling party condemns democratic process for fifth straight day after opposition leader won presidential election
— Matt Negrin, HOST OF HARDBALL AT 7PM ON MSNBC (@MattNegrin) November 12, 2020
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(11-10-2020, 05:25 PM)Lucidus Wrote: I hadn't necessarily thought of that, but you are correct; even in victory, he assumes the role of victimized martyr.
That's always been his thing, though.
He started his empire with a small loan of about a million bucks, according to him. It's believed it was more of a $60 million loan which he was still paying on in the 80s.
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Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics
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