Everyone Against Building The Wall- Part 2

[fredtoast]

(12-26-2018, 08:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You've lost me. How can an illegal immigrant come here legally.

Enter the country with legal permission but dont leave when they are supposed to.

More illegal immigrants enter the country this way than sneaking across the border.

[*bfine32*]

(12-27-2018, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Enter the country with legal permission but dont leave when they are supposed to.

More illegal immigrants enter the country this way than sneaking across the border.

Ah, makes sense. We do need total immigration reform. I'm just of the mind that one of the best ways to accomplish this is to stop the influx until it happens.

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2018, 03:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ah, makes sense. We do need total immigration reform. I'm just of the mind that one of the best ways to accomplish this is to stop the influx until it happens.

The point is that a wall won't stop the influx.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-27-2018, 03:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Enter the country with legal permission but dont leave when they are supposed to.

More illegal immigrants enter the country this way than sneaking across the border.

That's a lie.
Only about 1/3 of the illegals come this way.

And because of poor monitoring of who enters/exits the US, those numbers are high.

I already stated I have had a friend who entered via driving at the Canada border and flew out of the US and was dinged as an overstay because of the failure to monitor exits from airlines. He was not allowed back to the US til he showed his pass port was stamped showing that he was indeed out of the US before the visa expired.

And he's not the only one, I hear about this from others as well. Most of my friends are NOT US born. They are LEGAL immigrants.

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2018, 08:24 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: That's a lie.
Only about 1/3 of the illegals come this way.

Link to your source?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/25/most-immigrants-who-enter-the-country-do-so-legally-federal-data-show/?utm_term=.94fb461ffe0b

Border crossings don't even account for a majority of the people joining the unauthorized population in a given year. In fiscal 2016, for instance, the Department of Homeland Security estimated 628,799 people who had previously entered the country legally overstayed their visa that year. Other groups, such as the Center for Migration Studies, have similarly estimated that visa overstays account for about two-thirds of the total number of people joining the undocumented population in any given year.

[*Nately120*]

(12-26-2018, 07:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: 1. People building walls/fences around their property is something they choose to do with their funds. It is not a use of public funds being used at the expense of other (underfunded) programs that could benefit the public more.

Actually, I'm such a great negotiator that I got a $20,000 security system, and the local criminals paid the bill for it!

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-27-2018, 08:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link to your source?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/25/most-immigrants-who-enter-the-country-do-so-legally-federal-data-show/?utm_term=.94fb461ffe0b

Border crossings don't even account for a majority of the people joining the unauthorized population in a given year. In fiscal 2016, for instance, the Department of Homeland Security estimated 628,799 people who had previously entered the country legally overstayed their visa that year. Other groups, such as the Center for Migration Studies, have similarly estimated that visa overstays account for about two-thirds of the total number of people joining the undocumented population in any given year.

Ive stated all along that the system is terrible, it has not been fixed or changed. They are not good at tracking those that leave.
Now something that you are totally ignoring. Those that came here legally, have been screened vs those that cross illegally.


http://www.pewhispanic.org/2006/05/22/modes-of-entry-for-the-unauthorized-migrant-population/#fn-6985-5
Currently, most non-immigrant arrivals, i.e. foreign nationals admitted with a visa for a temporary stay, are asked to fill out a form known as an I-94 Arrival-Departure Record when they enter the country. The top half of the form is given to the immigration inspector who allows the person into the country and the bottom half is supposed to be collected on departure. A 2003 report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) found “there is no accurate list of overstays” because not all departure forms are collected and not all can be matched to arrival forms.4 In 2001, according to the GAO, 20% of I-94 arrival records had no matching departure record. Mexicans and Canadians entering the country with Border Crossing Cards are not required to complete an I-94 unless they are requesting an extended stay. In effect, the government has a pretty good idea of how many people come into the country if they fill out one of the forms, but it does not have a full count of how many leave.

Estimating Border Crossing Card Overstays

Unfortunately, there is little hard data on which to base estimates of the number of unauthorized migrants who entered the country by using a Border Crossing Card. But, given that the traffic is so enormous—as noted above, an estimated 148 million entries in 2004—if even a minuscule share of these individuals overstayed, they would contribute significantly to the unauthorized population.

Cardholders can easily overstay their visits since, unlike with I-94 forms, there is no attempt to check on whether the border crossers leave. Moreover, border crossing cards have been used fraudulently by others to cross because the biometric identifiers are not checked for all border crossers or at all ports of entry. The Center estimates that 1.7% of Mexicans entering the country each year on nonimmigrant visas become unauthorized overstayers, based on Warren’s data. Assuming that the rate of overstays for Mexicans holding Border Crossing Cards is similar and that this population has built up over time, produces an estimate of 250,000 to 500,000 cardholders who have become part of the unauthorized migrant population.

[Dill]

(12-26-2018, 10:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It must be frustrating feeling like someone doesn't take ownership of what they said.

lol

[Dill]

(12-26-2018, 08:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Okey doke. Go with the wall was not asked for by the American public and of course your definition of mandate; I'll consider mandate to be a requirement. 

Er, is Bels' definition of "mandate" the generally understood one or is yours?

[*jason*]

There's a lot of new information in this thread. I see why this discussion couldn't have been continued in the other wall thread.

[GMDino]

So, to be clear, Mexico will pay for the wall, America will pay for the wall, the wall will be concrete, the wall will be transparent, the government will remain shut down until there’s money to build the wall, the wall has already been built, and the wall is a metaphor.

— The Volatile Mermaid (@OhNoSheTwitnt) January 2, 2019

[hollodero]

(12-29-2018, 11:57 AM)jason Wrote: There's a lot of new information in this thread. I see why this discussion couldn't have been continued in the other wall thread.

Yeah well, unbelievably there are still people out there who keep being against a giant concrete wall along the border even though they lock their front door. This glaring hypocricy can not stand.

[GMDino]

It's always refreshing to hear Mitch McConnell speak on the Democrats and the "hard work of governing" when they don't just bend over to what the President wants.

http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/youtube/a25735bef202221d22e1540ba19d3341

Quote:"The legislation that House Democrats are reporting, reportedly planning to introduce and be voted on tomorrow would not be a serious contribution to the negotiations that are going on between the administration and the incoming Democratic majority in the house. It isn't comprehensive. It ignores the needs of border security. It's exactly the kind of proposal you'd expect if the incoming House Democrats were choosing to stage a political sideshow rather than doing the hard work of helping to govern the country. In other words, a total nonstarter"

His belief that the majority of America hasn't watched the sideshow of the Trump Administration and the GOP flailing about trying to "lead" anything would be sad if it wasn't so effective in his home state that keeps re-electing him.

[*bfine32*]

(12-29-2018, 06:49 AM)Dill Wrote: Er, is Bels' definition of "mandate" the generally understood one or is yours?

I generally side with the dictionary.

[Dill]

(01-03-2019, 12:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I generally side with the dictionary.

Not sure about that, but Bels seems to in this case.

[GMDino]

Here's the video of Chris Wallace fact-checking Sarah Sanders on her false claim that terrorists are streaming over the border with Mexico.

"The state department says there hasn’t been any terrorists found coming across the southern border." Via Fox. pic.twitter.com/ByMaa9TK2S

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) January 6, 2019

[jj22]

(12-26-2018, 08:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. But we voted in a POTUS who one of his main points was the construction of this wall; so we "chose" to do it.

Told yall. Now that we finally nailed BFine down for voting for Trump.... Carry on.

But yall voted for Mexico paying for it......

Remember "AND WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT?"

On the point of the thread. I think the op got conned by Trumps lie that the Obamas had a wall (they don't as pic of their house poured in and he was mocked after that statement).

[hollodero]

(01-07-2019, 02:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Told yall. Now that we finally nailed BFine down for voting for Trump.... Carry on.

You haven't quite done that.

He said "we", as in "the American people". I consider this to be a weak argument, since there wasn't exactly a variety of choices available and "you" just went for an EC that dislikes Clinton more - which isn't quite a mandate for building a wall a big majority of "you" is against and Mexico was supposed to happily pay for. But the tendency to make everything personal and about nailing people down does no good.

[*bfine32*]

(01-07-2019, 02:46 PM)jj22 Wrote: Told yall. Now that we finally nailed BFine down for voting for Trump.... Carry on.

But yall voted for Mexico paying for it......

Remember "AND WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR IT?"

On the point of the thread.  I think the op got conned by Trumps lie that the Obamas had a wall (they don't as pic of their house poured in and he was mocked  after that statement).

[GMDino]

Now DJT will go to the border.  Sanders says he wants to "meet with those on the front lines".

I can now safely say there is no trouble at the border or Trump would not go there.