HOO WUN??

[Dill]

I think Biden, by standards I have already laid out on Philos thread.

I am disappointed that Biden called Trump a "clown" and a "racist." He'd have looked so much more presidential if he'd kept his mouth shut WHILE TRUMP WAS INTERRUPTING. He is not Hillary when it comes to focus and precision.

But Jeezus, Trump. Wallace could not control him. The repeated riffs on Hunter Biden, like the American people need a separate debate on debunked Fox reporting.

Proud Boys--STAND BY? Got to do something about ANTIFA!! The ballots found in the trash, all marked for Trump--WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT!?!

Feel sorry for Chris Wallace. What's going to happen to the next moderators? Sometimes he sounded like the child trying to protect his mother from an abusive alcoholic father, trying to segue from a Biden point into a Trump rant. "Next question will make you happy, Mr President!"

What just happened?? People are watching in Europe, China. Brazil. Nigeria. . . .Russia! "SCIENCE DOESN'T KNOW!"

(Micheaelsean is right; I wanted this to be over)

[*Nately120*]

I'd say Biden was a bit of an arse with the "clown" "worst president" and "racist" quips, but I can also see why he felt the need to throw in some barbs when Trump made it clear he was going to talk for his 2 minutes and then interrupt and talk over Biden as soon as he opened his mouth.

I want to say that Biden being polite and following the rules while Trump shouts over him would be the "right" thing to do, but it would just further the narrative that Biden is a slow-witted senile idiot who can't defend himself. Then again, calling Trump racist isn't exactly an epic comeback.

[BmorePat87]

By the bar Trump set, Biden easily won.

Without the artificial bar, Biden won. He was more collected. He spoke to the people. He spoke on policy. He hammered away at the pandemic. He was the presidential candidate. Kerry-Bush, McCain-Obama, Obama-Romney, you had two presidential guys on both sides. That wasn't the case tonight. While that was true with Hillary, Trump wasn't the sitting president with 200k deaths 5 weeks out.

[CKwi88]

All I know is America lost.

What I will say is that I find it amazing that there will be people that genuinely believe that Trump killed it during the debate.

While Biden was less than stellar (name calling and his little flip flop on the green new deal stuck out) I think that by any actual standards of preparation and professionalism he was ahead of Trump.

[*bfine32*]

(09-30-2020, 12:08 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: All I know is America lost.

What I will say is that I find it amazing that there will be people that genuinely believe that Trump killed it during the debate.

While Biden was less than stellar (name calling and his little flip flop on the green new deal stuck out) I think that by any actual standards of preparation and professionalism he was ahead of Trump.

I agree with this. 

[*Nately120*]

I don't really recall the 2016 debates thankfully, but did Trump immediately interrupt and talk over Hillary like he did with Biden tonight? Biden couldn't get half a sentence out before Trump was trying to shout over him. I've been off the radar so I was a bit surprised at how Trump was acting, but is that par for the course?


Also, the notion that it could take weeks to find out who won the election promises to make November a veritable hell on earth.

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 12:09 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't really recall the 2016 debates thankfully, but did Trump immediately interrupt and talk over Hillary like he did with Biden tonight?   Biden couldn't get half a sentence out before Trump was trying to shout over him.  I've been off the radar so I was a bit surprised at how Trump was acting, but is that par for the course?


Also, the notion that it could take weeks to find out who won the election promises to make November a veritable hell on earth.

Yes, he did. But Hillary was more composed than Biden. 

She knew how and when to let him go. She never called him a "clown", or otherwise tried to return insults in kind. Biden gave in to that impulse. 

On the other hand, Triump was not as desperate then as he was this time around. He did not interrupt Hillary as aggressively as he did Biden and Wallace.

Such a handful for the moderator. How could you fact check those crazy Hunter Biden, ditched ballot, Dem violence riffs.

Looking forward to the polls.

[*Nately120*]

(09-30-2020, 12:19 AM)Dill Wrote: Yes, he did. But Hillary was more composed than Biden. 

She knew how and when to let him go. She never called him a "clown", or otherwise tried to return insults in kind. Biden gave in to that impulse. 

On the other hand, Triump was not as desperate then as he was this time around. He did not interrupt Hillary as aggressively as he did Biden and Wallace.

Trump being the sitting president for 4 years did seem to add to how much ammo Biden had against him, though.  I can see the shame of Biden sinking to Trump's level, but the guy is the president and the president is setting the precedent and frankly, 2016 shows us that being composed and following the rules of etiquette isn't an automatic win.

Plus, I'd wager after 4 years of Trump a lot of people got a vicarious thrill out of seeing Biden flat out telling him to shut up.

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 12:26 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump being the sitting president for 4 years did seem to add to how much ammo Biden had against him, though.  I can see the shame of Biden sinking to Trump's level, but the guy is the president and the president is setting the precedent and frankly, 2016 shows us that being composed and following the rules of etiquette isn't an automatic win.

Plus, I'd wager after 4 years of Trump a lot of people got a vicarious thrill out of seeing Biden flat out telling him to shut up.

LOL I confess that I did.

[*Nately120*]

(09-30-2020, 12:29 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL I confess that I did.

Biden was also content to talk in a rational manner (for the most part) but I honestly don't see him occasionally snapping back at Trump, who seemed to intentionally be on his worst behavior, as a bad thing.  I may be wrong, but I'm recalling Biden's lowblow insults coming at times when Trump was intentionally shouting over Biden's turn to speak.

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 12:35 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Biden was also content to talk in a rational manner (for the most part) but I honestly don't see him occasionally snapping back at Trump, who seemed to intentionally be on his worst behavior, as a bad thing.  I may be wrong, but I'm recalling Biden's lowblow insults coming at times when Trump was intentionally shouting over Biden's turn to speak.

Yeah. with another debater, Biden would have been rational non-stop.

You might be right about the occasional snap back--still "clown" is not what I want to hear in a presidential debate. 

But I'm not the public. As you say Trump was speaking/shouting over the moderator, constantly. That's great for the base. Judge Janine and Hannity think Trump won hands down because he showed he's a "warrior" for the people. But I think independents and the majority of Americans are turned off by it.

Trump is clearly not a guy who listens to advisors, counselors, pandemic doctors, moderators, anyone.

[*Nately120*]

(09-30-2020, 12:43 AM)Dill Wrote: Yeah. with another debater, Biden would have been rational non-stop.

You might be right about the occasional snap back--still "clown" is not what I want to hear in a presidential debate. 

But I'm not the public. As you say Trump was speaking/shouting over the moderator, constantly. That's great for the base. Judge Janine and Hannity think Trump won hands down because he showed he's a "warrior" for the people. But I think independents and the majority of Americans are turned off by it.

Trump is clearly not a guy who listens to advisors, counselors, pandemic doctors, moderators, anyone.

I also don't want to hear "clown" at a presidential debate, but I also don't want to see a two man race between Biden and Trump, either.  Does the shoe fit in this case?

 With that being said, time will tell if Trump's unwillingness to validate and consider the viewpoints and votes of people who don't already worship him is his undoing.  He continues to play to his ultra loyal base and I can't help but wonder if he's spending all his time before the war building a single wall of his fort, so to speak.

Denouncing white supremacy probably could have satiated a few undecideds while not phasing his supporters, for example. Ah well.


Oh and the last thing I'll say before I attempt to wind down and sleep is that Biden made more of a point to talk to the camera/viewers and Trump's plan was to argue with Biden and Wallace. I'd wager both approaches are just what their bases want.

[NATI BENGALS]

I would say enemies of democracy won tonight.

The weakest we have ever looked. Shitbag prez up there telling the world our presidential election is a rigged disaster.

Joe hit the nail on the head.

Clown

[Dill]

The first post-debate polls say Biden won
To get a better picture of how this will affect the race, though, we’ll have to wait longer.
https://www.vox.com/2020/9/30/21494864/who-won-debate-trump-biden-polls

To get a methodologically rigorous look at who “won” the first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden — if winning is defined as helping their presidential campaign’s chances — you’ll have to wait a bit longer.

The indicators we have right now are necessarily incomplete and limited; they’re focus groups of tiny, handpicked samples of undecided voters, or polls of people who watched the debate rather than the electorate at large, or just pundits making stuff up. Plus, the true impact of a debate is often determined in the spin war fought in the hours and days afterward.

Keeping these limitations in mind, overall those preliminary findings so far look better for Biden.

Asked to describe Trump in one word or phrase, the responses were: “horrid,” “chaotic,” “unpolished,” “crackhead,” “ehh,” “puzzling,” “un-American,” “unhinged,” “an ass, but a confident ass,” “classic Trump,” “forceful,” “unhinged,” “bully,” “arrogant,” arrogant,” “typical.”

Then, asked to describe Biden, the responses were: “I was surprised at how well he did,” “better than expected,” “definitely more professional than Trump and I think he’s more a people person,” “competent,” “politician,” “showed restraint and compassion,” “politician,” “predictable,” “nice guy but lacking vision,” “coherent,” “leader,” “attentive and rehearsed,” “somewhat evasive,” “humanity and integrity,” “predictable,” “presidential.”

[Tiger Teeth]

I'm moving to Canada with Truck. This country is screwed either way IMO.

[NATI BENGALS]

(09-30-2020, 01:49 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: I'm moving to Canada with Truck.  This country is screwed either way IMO.  

Border is closed...

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-30-2020, 01:41 AM)Dill Wrote: The first post-debate polls say Biden won
To get a better picture of how this will affect the race, though, we’ll have to wait longer.
https://www.vox.com/2020/9/30/21494864/who-won-debate-trump-biden-polls

To get a methodologically rigorous look at who “won” the first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden — if winning is defined as helping their presidential campaign’s chances — you’ll have to wait a bit longer.

The indicators we have right now are necessarily incomplete and limited; they’re focus groups of tiny, handpicked samples of undecided voters, or polls of people who watched the debate rather than the electorate at large, or just pundits making stuff up. Plus, the true impact of a debate is often determined in the spin war fought in the hours and days afterward.

Keeping these limitations in mind, overall those preliminary findings so far look better for Biden.

Asked to describe Trump in one word or phrase, the responses were: “horrid,” “chaotic,” “unpolished,” “crackhead,” “ehh,” “puzzling,” “un-American,” “unhinged,” “an ass, but a confident ass,” “classic Trump,” “forceful,” “unhinged,” “bully,” “arrogant,” arrogant,” “typical.”

Then, asked to describe Biden, the responses were: “I was surprised at how well he did,” “better than expected,” “definitely more professional than Trump and I think he’s more a people person,” “competent,” “politician,” “showed restraint and compassion,” “politician,” “predictable,” “nice guy but lacking vision,” “coherent,” “leader,” “attentive and rehearsed,” “somewhat evasive,” “humanity and integrity,” “predictable,” “presidential.”

Someone voted for “unhinged” twice. Must have bought the ballot from that mailman in West Virgina. Total fraud! Fakiest fake news poll ever. Rigged!

[BoomerFan]

I went in already supporting Biden but I thought he had some good moments when he rose above the din and tried to talk to the people directly.

[Dill]

(09-30-2020, 02:04 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Someone voted for “unhinged” twice. Must have bought the ballot from that mailman in West Virgina. Total fraud! Fakiest fake news poll ever. Rigged!

Don Lemon all upset that Trump couldn't condemn white nationalists.

Lol "Why do Dems have to make everything about race?!?  

[Dill]

Proud Boys celebrate online after Trump's debate 'stand back and stand by' comment
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/518887-proud-boys-celebrate-online-after-trumps-debate-stand-back-stand-by-comment

The far-right group the Proud Boys celebrated Tuesday night after President Trump refused to denounce white supremacy and mentioned them during the first presidential debate....
The Proud Boys immediately shared a new logo online that included the phrase "stand back and stand by."
Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden responded on Twitter, sharing an image of Proud Boys praising the president's remarks as well with the caption: "This. This is Donald Trump's America."
https://twitter.com/VeraMBergen/status/1311138732607778816/photo/1